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  1. #1

    Bestofdata : Automatic Cancel and Automatic Data Deletion !!!

    Hi,

    Just want to share my horrible experiences.
    Got box from bestofdata,
    It works Ok .... acceptable.

    But I have been a victims of their Automatic Cancel and Automatic Data Deletion !!

    This is Horrble !!!
    Just want to say to everyone to be careful with bestofdata

    cheers,
    victim customer
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  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by macgyvers
    But I have been a victims of their Automatic Cancel and Automatic Data Deletion !!
    Care to share more details? That little pout bit doesn't tell us much about what happened.
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  3. #3
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    well they do illegally look thru thru customers servers without asking for permission (they admited to this btw)

    and also have misleaded people in the past with their advertising


    so what do you expect?
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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by mihd
    well they do illegally look thru thru customers servers without asking for permission (they admited to this btw)

    and also have misleaded people in the past with their advertising


    so what do you expect?
    Did you have a poor experience with them too?
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  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by mihd
    well they do illegally look thru thru customers servers without asking for permission (they admited to this btw)
    Can they do that without knowing your root password?
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  6. #6
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    Can they do that without knowing your root password?
    yes by rebooting into rescue mode


    when i heard (from one of their staff Thierry) that they reboot their customers boxes into rescue mode and snop thru the servers without asking or notification

    that was the last straw

    -----------


    here is extract from their live support chatroom, Thierry is the staff member answering questions here:

    http://paste.pierce.tv/?973e9e2f9d64...412eed7492bf1a


    [18:22] <Thierry> We reboot in Rescue Mode to see files !!

    [18:22] <Cruise> u need a court order remember
    [18:22] <Cruise> gotta be careful with laws
    [18:22] <smiley> is that why a box was rebooted?
    [18:23] <Thierry> I have to go

    [18:23] <Thierry> Read our TOS !!
    [18:23] <Cruise> may have been vincenet
    [18:23] <Thierry> If we found illegal files we can remove your box !!
    [18:24] <Thierry> +
    [18:24] <Cruise> but to login without asking client first is against law
    [18:24] <Cruise> in any country
    [18:24] <Cruise> not that i care but just saying
    [18:25] <Xandrios> Thierry: let me get this straight: You are browsing servers of your customers?
    [18:25] <Xandrios> Not that I have soemthign to hide, but thats not something i'd appriciate
    [18:26] <Xandrios> In fact, i dont even think its legal


    [18:47] <smiley> aint that like searching a house without a warrant?
    [18:47] <Thierry> We know that 50% of windows servers use torrents !!
    [18:48] <Thierry> Same if it's forbidden in our TOS !!
    [18:48] <smiley> well firstly not a good idea to use windwows as server
    [18:48] <Xandrios> Thierry: I get that, but it is still ilegal to look through files that do not belong to you
    [18:48] <Xandrios> privacy laws and such
    [18:48] <Thierry> We only search .rar
    [18:49] <Cruise> but u cant by law
    [18:49] <Cruise> without a court order
    [18:49] <Cruise> check google it will tell u
    [18:49] <Cruise> im just trying to save u from law suites Thierry
    [18:49] <Cruise> as i care about u keeping in business
    [18:49] <Xandrios> the fact that there are warez sites and torrent users, yes, that is bad
    [18:50] <Xandrios> but looking throught files will only make things worse
    [18:50] <smiley> ill be more worried about windows servers serving spam because windows is a shite OS that torrents
    Last edited by dfh_ie; 12-15-2006 at 09:24 AM.
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  7. #7
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    I'm still curious as to what auto-cancel and auto-deletion means. What automatically did this?
    Caro.Net: Support is everything
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  8. #8
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    Hi,

    Pretty much, they said a few weeks ago in here that if you had a box and were doing *anything* illegal (eg. torrenting) that your box would automatically be nuked and no refund given.

    I wouldn't be surprised if they took all customers that were holding a unusually high amoutn of BW (probably anyone holding > 60Mbit solid over FTP) offline and starting looking around.

    Pretty much with the costs they are going with, they attracted a huge hunk of the pirate community to buy boxes. They're blaming all of their BW issues on these users, and so nuked a ton of them supposidly.

    ~Francisco
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  9. #9
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    DeltaAnime firstly its impossible to use more than 20mbit as its capped and secondly i understand they have a problem with torrents etc but its still wrong to examine customers servers without asking or notification

    anyways at this stage i dont give a damn, all of the servers i have with them not going to bother renewing, stay away from this crowd, they are cowboys
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  10. #10
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    Who are the clueless wonders in the chat saying that windows is a bad server OS? I am just curious if they are just kids or have their heads in the sand.

    CLEARLY there is something else here either non payment or TOS violations.
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by mihd
    well they do illegally look thru thru customers servers without asking for permission (they admited to this btw)
    How is that illegal? Its unethical sure, but if they've been informed of illegal content on the server its their prerogative to go look at it. Its your choice on whether or not to host with them, if their TOS says they can do it, they can do it because you agreed to it by purchasing services from them.

    If you *owned* the server, that would be an entirely different matter, but you really don't have a leg to stand on if you don't - you're at the mercy of their TOS.

    This is one of the differences between a good and a bad host.
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  12. #12
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    Agreed. The fact that they dug in your box means you shouldn't trust them and that they have a very odd perception of what is and is not acceptable in the marketplace, however, it isn't illegal by any means.
    Caro.Net: Support is everything
    Offering High Quality Dell Dedicated Servers since 1995
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  13. #13
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    Just because its in the TOS doest make it legal. Some laws take president over contract law.

    i think you would have to talk to a laywer about the legality of what they did

    its defiantly murky waters, even if you rent something you get certain rights to privacy. For example if you rent a house, you dont expect your landlord to install CCTV in your bathroom without telling you.

    i think this is a tricky one.
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by doc_flabby
    Just because its in the TOS doest make it legal. Some laws take president over contract law.
    You would be correct if it was a server that the customer owned or leased from the company, but a dedicated server is neither. Unless your state/country has a specific law about it, your data is not protected.

    For instance - Your employer owns the computer you work on during the day, at *ANY* time they can take your computer and look and see what you're doing. They can read your email, look at what you're doing on the net, listen to your phone calls - its all perfectly legal because they own everything and own the work you do there.

    The short answer to your privacy worries are - colo, not dedicated. If they get into your server without permission (from you or LE), that is not allowed and they can get into trouble, but good luck proving it or finding a good lawyer that will defend you; your best hope would be the EFF.

    Oh, and the reason your landlord can't install a CCTV in your house is actually regulated by housing law, not any privacy laws. The US really has crappy privacy laws
    Last edited by appliedops; 12-15-2006 at 03:19 PM.
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by mihd
    DeltaAnime firstly its impossible to use more than 20mbit as its capped and secondly i understand they have a problem with torrents etc but its still wrong to examine customers servers without asking or notification

    anyways at this stage i dont give a damn, all of the servers i have with them not going to bother renewing, stay away from this crowd, they are cowboys
    At a point you used to be able todo 100Mbit I thought?

    I know they offered me one of their "test" boxes back in June, before they went public. We marked it as too good to be true and turned down the offer.

    Thanks,

    ~Francisco
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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by mihd
    well they do illegally look thru thru customers servers without asking for permission (they admited to this btw)

    and also have misleaded people in the past with their advertising


    so what do you expect?
    I'm not saying that it is right, but are you certain it is illegal? The server is owned by them and in their facilities, what is illegal about checking what is on the drives? Immoral/unethical, yes, but illegal, I'm not sure you can get them on that.

    Sorry, hadn't read far enough to see this was already discussed...
    Last edited by KarlZimmer; 12-15-2006 at 05:28 PM.
    Karl Zimmerman - Steadfast: Managed Dedicated Servers and Premium Colocation
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  17. #17
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    Hi ,

    im looking at their TOS they totally changed it ?!? can they change the TOS anytime ??
    Giving up does not always means you are weak, it Simply means you are strong to let go!
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  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Navid1
    can they change the TOS anytime ??
    They can if they say in their TOS that they can haha

    I'm not going to renew my servers with them - I've had enough of the slow connection speeds and now seeing this post has done it for me
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  19. #19
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    They can change it, and they have.

    The TOS is a lot different then before and when I got a backup file server box with them the part about looking through your files if they suspected illegal activity was going on on your box.

    It is there now, and they also informed me through email about the coming changes to bandwidth overusage inspection which caused me to not renew with them either.

    I didn't get the service for illegal purposes, just to host machinima files. However, other hosts open the files and since there is copyright information in the files and the music they feel I am doing something illegal. While not true as the creators use my site to distribute the content.

    Just didn't want BOD to see heavy usage, open a zip read Copyright John Doe and know that isn't me and term the account and blow away several hundred gigs of data.
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  20. #20
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    im sorry i dont get that .. you mean any company can change their TOS at any time ?? but this is ... u know !
    Giving up does not always means you are weak, it Simply means you are strong to let go!
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  21. #21
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    It must be illegal to search in people's data.. I have clients moving hosting to me, and using a lot of bandwidth, and I don't want them to suspect anything..

    I'm moving to hetzner ASAP.
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  22. #22
    Hello,

    It's very simple how we search servers.

    We only search servers that have credible evidence of serving/hosting illegal material.

    In our own audits of servers hosting illegal material, we searched over 34 servers, 33 of them had illegal material, each one of the servers we canceled was using between 30 to 40 Mbps for ILLEGAL material, we find it unacceptable that 1Gbps or more traffic was being used for illegal material.

    If you are not hosting anything illegal then you have nothing to worry about.

    In reply to the original post by: macgyvers

    I think he is speaking about our policy on canceling servers for non-payment.

    You are sent an email that your server needs to be renewed 7 days before the renewal date.
    You are send another email 2 days before the renewal date.

    On the day of the renewal if it has not been renewed, it is put into rescue mode until it is renewed.
    2-3 days after its been in rescue mode and not renewed it is turned offline and reassigned to another customer.

    We think this is plenty of notice and fair to do this, as it is also the customers responsibility to pay his bills.

    Regards,
    BESTOFDATA
    BestOfData - http://www.bestofdata.com - Your Online Gateway To Internet!
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  23. #23
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    It does not matter, without notifying the client it should and probably is illegal.
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  24. #24
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    One of my friends have a server from them , i saw the mrtg graph over 40MB ,he use the server for shoutcast services, he got email at every month about the renew time and cancelation, any services on Bestofdata it is notify via email about cancel renew reboot ..., and i can say if this friend is happy with them over 4 months i think is not a bad Dedicated Company.
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  25. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Tailseh
    It does not matter, without notifying the client it should and probably is illegal.

    Hello,

    You may not care that customers are hosting illegal material on our servers, but we do.

    It's against our terms of service and international laws and is a plain our waste of bandwidth that could be used on legal services.

    I dont think this topic needs to turn into this big argument if its legal or not, its simple: if you are not hosting illegal material you have nothing to worry about.
    BestOfData - http://www.bestofdata.com - Your Online Gateway To Internet!
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  26. #26
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    I dont think this topic needs to turn into this big argument if its legal or not, its simple: if you are not hosting illegal material you have nothing to worry about.
    LOL

    I just killed three people and I'm going to kill more, but only if your name begins with an "R." If your name doesn't begin with an "R" you have nothing to worry about.
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  27. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by nocebo
    LOL

    I just killed three people and I'm going to kill more, but only if your name begins with an "R." If your name doesn't begin with an "R" you have nothing to worry about.
    Is something wrong? I do not understand your post.
    BestOfData - http://www.bestofdata.com - Your Online Gateway To Internet!
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  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by nocebo
    LOL

    I just killed three people and I'm going to kill more, but only if your name begins with an "R." If your name doesn't begin with an "R" you have nothing to worry about.
    Whew, I'm safe. Go on with your business.
    Karl Zimmerman - Steadfast: Managed Dedicated Servers and Premium Colocation
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  29. #29
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    This concerns me.
    I certainly wouldn't want anyone logging into my own servers without authorization.

    Wouldn't you at least give them some notice and a reason why?
    Hell, if there's illegal content you'll get a cease and desist soon enough.. and that will handle all legality.

    I mean if you want to play dirty (which it seems you have no problem with) just ratelimit their ports if you're concerned about bandwidth costs.

    I know at all of the companies I've worked for we certainly were too swamped to worry about logging into dedicated server's and auditing content. That would be just completely silly and unethical. The only chance we'd ever have of finding it were the cease and desists and if we happened upon it during a support request.

    Hrmph.
    Last edited by David; 12-15-2006 at 09:26 PM.
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  30. #30
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    what worries me is what about people that get hacked, 30gb of pirated movies uploaded and turned into an iroffer bot, would that be seen as illigal activities and disconnected, because thats utter BS. I recently just removed about 27gb of pirated movies off a server that had a joomla exploited.
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  31. #31
    It seems you guys did not understand, let me explain better:

    The servers we canceled were blatantly hosting nothing but illegal material, there was no guessing in the matter. We had evidence torrents and FTP's were running on these servers, it was not imagined, and we did not just pick random servers to go through.

    When we do remove a server for abuse, the customer is automatically sent an email then we put them in rescue mode for 2-3 days to let the customer contact us about the issue, but 99% of the time the customer does not contact us when its hosting illegal material.

    Furthermore its more than just bandwidth at the issue here, the material they are hosting is illegal and against French and international laws, simply capping their port to 1Mbps still allows them to host this material.
    BestOfData - http://www.bestofdata.com - Your Online Gateway To Internet!
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  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by CoolRaul
    Who are the clueless wonders in the chat saying that windows is a bad server OS? I am just curious if they are just kids or have their heads in the sand.

    CLEARLY there is something else here either non payment or TOS violations.
    I agree, I'm sure there's more to the story than the op is telling.
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  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by nocebo
    LOL

    I just killed three people and I'm going to kill more, but only if your name begins with an "R." If your name doesn't begin with an "R" you have nothing to worry about.
    I'm going to be killed
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  34. #34
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    I'm going to be killed
    *wonders if you'd take offense at a texan joke*
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  35. #35

    Thumbs down

    Quote Originally Posted by bestofdata
    Hello,

    It's very simple how we search servers.

    We only search servers that have credible evidence of serving/hosting illegal material.

    In our own audits of servers hosting illegal material, we searched over 34 servers, 33 of them had illegal material, each one of the servers we canceled was using between 30 to 40 Mbps for ILLEGAL material, we find it unacceptable that 1Gbps or more traffic was being used for illegal material.

    If you are not hosting anything illegal then you have nothing to worry about.

    In reply to the original post by: macgyvers

    I think he is speaking about our policy on canceling servers for non-payment.

    You are sent an email that your server needs to be renewed 7 days before the renewal date.
    You are send another email 2 days before the renewal date.

    On the day of the renewal if it has not been renewed, it is put into rescue mode until it is renewed.
    2-3 days after its been in rescue mode and not renewed it is turned offline and reassigned to another customer.

    We think this is plenty of notice and fair to do this, as it is also the customers responsibility to pay his bills.

    Regards,
    BESTOFDATA
    Hi bestofdata,

    My issues is that you did autocancel and autodelete, should I know this before I will not buy any box from you.
    My sites are only simple website ... with average traffic only 300 Kb.
    Are you not sure I am paying the bill?
    Customer and Provider relation is build more by trust ... not merely bill/invoice.
    Once the trust is gone ... any business will collapse.

    Imagine this, .. a person get 500 usd per day from his website, .. then because of that person is not online or not checking email for 10 days, .. suddently he lost his business

    Thanks God I have not reach that amount of earning!!

    Now all my sites are down ... that's allright,
    BUT
    How about my data? ... very valuable data ... which you deleted.
    dust to dust ashes to ashes ............. i should start again from zero.
    [ I have lost my time, money and energy .............. thanks to you ]

    cheers,
    a very unhappy customer
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  36. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by mihd
    yes by rebooting into rescue mode


    when i heard (from one of their staff Thierry) that they reboot their customers boxes into rescue mode and snop thru the servers without asking or notification
    Just encrypt your Server HDD with Truecrypt and there is nothing they can do... and yes there is a Bandwith Hardcap but its not 25mbit anymore its 50mbit

    http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/1...mrtgphpdo7.png
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  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by HDTV
    Just encrypt your Server HDD with Truecrypt and there is nothing they can do... and yes there is a Bandwith Hardcap but its not 25mbit anymore its 50mbit

    http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/1...mrtgphpdo7.png
    You shoutcasting or something? Don't think I've ever seen anything using 50mbit consistantly.. but its still nice to know my cap isn't 25mbit anymore (I mirror some podcasts, and sometimes I have bursts of data from ~2mbit to 20mbit.)
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  38. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Tailseh
    You shoutcasting or something?
    Yeah its a Anime Video Stream with 450kbps Bandwith per Client
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  39. #39
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    if you make illegal things, you&#180;ll get canceled, that&#180;s ok,
    but I think that they should warn you, take you offline, and give you
    more days to resolve the problem...

    anyway, how other providers behave when things like this happens?
    (when they find torrents, not allowed IRC servers, etc)
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  40. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by HDTV
    Yeah its a Anime Video Stream with 450kbps Bandwith per Client
    Woahhh, your server is better than mine then - I can only get about 100kbps per client
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