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Thread: 64 Bit VPS?

  1. #1
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    Question 64 Bit VPS?

    Who's selling 64 bit VPS servers? Looking for a 1 gig server. Needs to run 64 bit kernel.
    Marc Perkel
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  2. #2
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    Are you looking for a specific location? OpenVZ, Virtuozzo, Xen, or other?


  3. #3
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    I recall seeing zone.net ad on WHT for 64 Bit VPS.

  4. #4
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    Hi!
    If you must have a custom kernel...that limits you to vmware only. I am not aware of anybody who offers a 64bit version of VMware...at least not on WHT.

    Good luck!

    Bryon
    Bryon L Harvey
    Soil Relocation Engineer

  5. #5
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    Two of the VPS providers that I use (SliceHost & GPLHost) are running 64bit Linux. Both use Xen.

    You can certainly get 64bit Virtuozzo. OpenVZ is available on 64bit as well. It just makes more sense to go with 64bit host with today's 8Gb/16Gb RAM boxes running VPS host nodes. You can also run 32bit binary inside a 64bit OS with emulation.

    Scott

  6. #6
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    Zone.net is who I'm with now but they are moving to new servers and the new servers are running a 32 bit kernel. They are trying to tell me that 64 bit isn't stable which I'm not buying. All my other (real) servers are 64 bit and I'm reluctant to convert back. One of the reasons I chose Zone.net was because of the 64 bit option and I don't want to give that up.
    Marc Perkel
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  7. #7
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    I'm using OpenVZ 64bit for a while and it seems stable, although there are some known problems as vzyum (this tool update update specified VE via yum) don't work properly but we can by pass it by installing yum inside VE.


  8. #8
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    Hi!
    Well..I have both. Stability does not seem to be a issue..but versatility is.
    On the 64bit server..only Debian and Centos are available...whereas the options with 32bit are more diverse..everything from ubuntu..fed3,4,5...gentoo (kinda strange, IMHO). I think opensuse 9 is available 64 bit..but I don't care much for that either..again...I don't see many people honestly wanting it.

    I stopped using vzyum many moons ago..

    Bryon
    Bryon L Harvey
    Soil Relocation Engineer

  9. #9
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    I currently have a 64 bit FC5 with zone.net that is running now. But for some reason they are migrating to a new server and the new server is running a 32 bit kernel and they are giving me some bullsh*t that 32 bit kernels are more stable. I'm getting rather frustrated about this.

    What is FC5 x64 a problem?

    I can install yum myself and I don't need a control panel.
    Marc Perkel
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  10. #10
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    Hi!
    I don't sell dedicated servers...but have you considered getting a small dedicated server? I can recommend dediwebhost.com..as long as you don't need to send email from there (cough).

    If you need no control panel...seems like a P4 all to yourself would be the ticket.
    Even though they do not advertise it..dedi can do 64bit centos. I have no clue about Fed 5...by all means...ask them about it!

    >>I just checked with the zone.net pricing..and you'll even save $$$.
    Even off-sale..dedi charges $79/month for a p4 2.8Ghz.

    Bryon
    Bryon L Harvey
    Soil Relocation Engineer

  11. #11
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    You can have a 32-bit OS with a 64-bit kernel, the only problem being iptables.

    Having a 64-bit kernel for VPS use with 64-bit OS's gives you about 20-30% performance increase as the virtual software doesn't need to convert 32 bit calls into 64-bit.

    John
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by mperkel
    I currently have a 64 bit FC5 with zone.net that is running now. But for some reason they are migrating to a new server and the new server is running a 32 bit kernel and they are giving me some bullsh*t that 32 bit kernels are more stable. I'm getting rather frustrated about this.

    What is FC5 x64 a problem?

    I can install yum myself and I don't need a control panel.
    Marc,

    Please don't accuse ZONE.NET of giving you any sort of false information, which we never have done. Both myself and my tech explained to you that we are still running 64-bit hardware, actually upgrading to the new 2 x Woodcrest 5160's, but we ran into the same issues we had with the 64-bit VZ kernel that we had currently on one of our x64 nodes with the same amount of memory (16 GB). So in order to prevent the constant instability issues that do exist (documentated) within the 64-bit VZ Kernel -- note, this is Virtuozzo, not just FC5 running x64, we decided to go with the same setup as our other machines, RH4 32-bit. This not only allows us to offer more features and an extended OS selection (ie debian, etc), but also guarantees stability for that node, and in turn, for our clients.

    I don't know how long you've been working with Linux, but I think the issue here might be your lack of experience with Virtuozzo or other Virtualization systems (Xen, OpenVZ, etc). These aren't just regular Linux boxes running the latest and greatest kernel from Linus & Co.. These are machines that are running a HIGHLY modified kernel that does very specific functions in relation to VZ and memory management.

    If you like, I can point you towards some light reading about 32bit kernel stability versus 64bit kernels, on the VZ platform and in general.

    -Sean

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by bryonhost1
    Hi!
    Well..I have both. Stability does not seem to be a issue..but versatility is.
    On the 64bit server..only Debian and Centos are available...whereas the options with 32bit are more diverse..everything from ubuntu..fed3,4,5...gentoo (kinda strange, IMHO). I think opensuse 9 is available 64 bit..but I don't care much for that either..again...I don't see many people honestly wanting it.

    I stopped using vzyum many moons ago..

    Bryon
    Sure, stability can exist with x64 kernels. We have several 4-8GB memory nodes that are running a x64 kernel (albeit a bit older than the current VZ release), with no issue. The problems crop up when we run x64 VZ on machines with 16+ GB of memory.

    Do I want to keep adding 4 and 8 GB nodes just so we can run the 64-bit VZ kernel? Certainly not! With technology going today we need to constantly upgrade our servers/memory and our processors to stay competitive, let alone to ensure the highest levels of service, but if the software can't keep up with that than we'll just stick with what we know that works on our latest hardware, don't you agree?

    -Sean

  14. #14
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    Hi!
    Good gravy! 16GB?!?! I'll never have a server with 16GB...too expenskive.
    Plus..I am sure the path I'm on..smaller boxes...fewer vps's..is a better path from not only the break-even-make-money standpoint..but also the easier-to-manage standpoint as well.

    Ekkk. 16GB+. To each his own.

    Bryon
    Bryon L Harvey
    Soil Relocation Engineer

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by bryonhost1
    Hi!
    Good gravy! 16GB?!?! I'll never have a server with 16GB...too expenskive.
    Plus..I am sure the path I'm on..smaller boxes...fewer vps's..is a better path from not only the break-even-make-money standpoint..but also the easier-to-manage standpoint as well.

    Ekkk. 16GB+. To each his own.

    Bryon

    16 GB is not that much, especially at the current state of the semiconducter industry and its low prices. I'm still looking for a decent, well priced x86 based chassis that can handle 32GB+. Oh, and by the way, VZ does not scale as you would think it does just by adding more memory. For example, if you can run 20 VPS's comfortably on a machine with 8 GB of memory, you would think with a 16 GB memory config you could run 40 VPS's. Not true. Adding more memory past the 8GB mark is really just extra buffer memory so you can actually provide the advertised "burst" rate into real memory, versus "burst" into a swap file, so don't assume just because we add more memory its to stuff more VE's on, because it just doesn't work. Ofcourse, I'm still looking for a 32GB box to do some more stress testing, so I could be completely wrong.

    On the hardware side, I don't think I would trust something like 32GB+ servers to the traditional rack mfg's Super Micro or Dell, If I had it my way, ZONE.NET's eventual path would be to go back to the Sun... never met a Sun box that wasn't bulletproof - both archeticture and physical construction. Seriously, those things are made like tanks. Oh, and Solaris has been 64-bit on the SPARc platform for a very very long time (and stable).

    I would mortgage my house right away for a used E10k or E15k if I knew I could run a decent Linux distrib and slap on Xen or VZ. 1 TB of RAM... even better if VZ ran on Solaris, I could trust that OS 1000% to do its job of memory allocation and management. Even a version of Plesk on Solaris would make my year, but not mortgage my house.

    -Sean
    Last edited by seankoons; 12-14-2006 at 05:45 PM.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by seankoons
    I would mortgage my house right away for a used E10k or E15k if I knew I could run a decent Linux distrib and slap on Xen or VZ. 1 TB of RAM... even better if VZ ran on Solaris, I could trust that OS 1000% to do its job of memory allocation and management. Even a version of Plesk on Solaris would make my year, but not mortgage my house.
    Sure. And I'll pay $30/month to have 1/1000'th of that E15k in a Solaris container Thanks Sean!

    Now back to 64bit Linux. I think the only reason Virtuozzo's is having "highly modified" kernel is that they are 2.6.9 with lots of back ports. I don't have a 16Gb box myself, but had 2 OpenVZ boxes (a Dell 2950 and a 2850) with 9Gb of memory running OpenVZ smoothly on 2.6.16 and 2.6.18. From the size of the patch they are no where near "highly modified".

    And they run Gentoo x86_64. Who said they are limited to only Debian and CentOS/RHE?

    One issue I have with big memory VZ is, since it is OS-level virtualization and all processes are running inside the same kernel, will a out-of-box RHE/CentOS kernel + VZ patch be able to handle all the processes in the 40+ VE. Say you have 25 proc/VE average, and that's 1,000 processes + the ones from the host node. You'll have to scroll many pages if you do a `ps aux` on a Wyse-60 terminal Now can a vanilla Linux kernel handle that many processes (+ more if you count kernel level threads)? Or lots of tuning required?

    Or just get a big iron Solaris box instead?

  17. #17
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    We run hosts at 4000+ processes (on 64-bit) without any issues. The O(1) scheduler in 2.6 kernels really makes it so the # of processes is not significant to the CPU.
    Matt Ayres - togglebox.com
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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by ylsy
    Sure. And I'll pay $30/month to have 1/1000'th of that E15k in a Solaris container Thanks Sean!
    Who said anything about running it for public VPS hosting? I would strictly use it for SETI, ofcourse.

    -Sean

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheWiseOne
    We run hosts at 4000+ processes (on 64-bit) without any issues. The O(1) scheduler in 2.6 kernels really makes it so the # of processes is not significant to the CPU.
    That's alot of processes, but sounds about right for a heavy duty node with 30-40 VE's. The average Plesk VE takes up about 50-80 procs, and your average cPanel VE takes about 70-100, all depending on their activity. The unknown variable is the no-control panel VE that could have anywhere from 8-200 procs. I'm not too sure about other control panels running in VE's, but I'm sure it's comparable.

    What kind of specs are you running on those bad boys? We're using the new 2xWoodcrest 5160's, which I'm very much impressed with so far over our 2xOptereon 265's. The extra cpu cache is really making a difference, IMHO.

    -Sean

  20. #20
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    We've been running pure 64-bit VPS with 5160's and 16GB ram without problems for about 5 months now.
    UK SSD VPS without compromise - upto 250k IOPS !
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  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by reiteration
    We've been running pure 64-bit VPS with 5160's and 16GB ram without problems for about 5 months now.
    John, you guys use Xen though, if I'm not mistaken? Any plans to put any 32 GB nodes into play?

    -Sean

  22. #22
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    Yep Xen.

    32GB is currently not a viable option due to cost. $15k for 32GB !

    I'm sure when the cost comes down we'll be putting 32GB into play, watch this space ;-)
    UK SSD VPS without compromise - upto 250k IOPS !
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  23. #23
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    Hi!
    Sean..I'm well aware of the not-so scalable issue already..hence the smaller-boxes-for-me mode as well. I mean...I had to put a enterprise openvz on a dual
    opteron already with just 4GB RAM. Also...I have been a vps customer on these
    high end servers of which you speak many moons before made the plunge...and...uhhh...smaller boxes for me.

    >>>Oh...and many hosts have a very creative view of what is a "Fair" share of those resources...hence the resource allocation fairness campaign of late.

    Well...back to work! Wheeeee!

    Bryon
    Bryon L Harvey
    Soil Relocation Engineer

  24. #24
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    Actually I'm somewhat amazed that Virtuozzo runs on mudern hardware at all considering that it's an ancient kernel (2.6.9). I remember when the dual core processors came out and it wasn't till 2.6.14 before they ran correctly. The OpenVZ folks have a much newer kernel. I'm wondering if the kernel will work better on newer bigger hardware.

    Generally from what I've observers you want a kernel that came out at least 4 months after the hardware you are running on was released.

    BTW, what does Virtuozzo sell for? Do you pay by the server for it? Does it run on clusters?
    Marc Perkel
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  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by seankoons
    We're using the new 2xWoodcrest 5160's, which I'm very much impressed with so far over our 2xOptereon 265's.
    For about the same price, I think it's better to go with the Clovertown 5310. Sure it's only 1.6 GHz, but 2 Clovertown 5310 gives you a total GHz power of 12.8 Ghz, instead of 12 GHz with Woodcrest 5160.
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  26. #26
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    Hi!
    Aye! The processor battles are getting interesting indeed. let me get out me crystal ball...ohhhhh...forget dual quad cores...I see...quad quads! More power, Captain! The word is given..ludicrous speed!

    Uhh..be careful. Going plaid has risks!

    Bryon
    Bryon L Harvey
    Soil Relocation Engineer

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