Results 1 to 19 of 19
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Posts
    1,280

    * Just some observations..

    Have the rest of you noticed how demanding the clients are becoming? I've noticed lately that customers posting in the request forum make a list of 100+ different features that even sometimes requires installation of some misc sofware/module and they're _willing_ to pay $2 per month for it. And then of course, all hosts jump on them copy/pasting their plans making each thread look 99.9% the same offering the world for a penny. I wonder how many hosts have actually grown and survived in this business for at least a couple of years offering such cheap prices..

    Keep in mind that this is just an observation in general and not pointed towards anyone or any company.
    (SH)Saeed

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Denver, CO
    Posts
    3,301
    Yes, I agree that many off the offers in the Web Hosting Requests forum are absolutely worthless. I personally don't bother even looking at the any of the requests in that because I'm definately not looking for the type of customer who wants everything and then some for less than the cost of a Big Mac.

    I think that the majority of the problem is with the web hosts, not the customers. Unfortunately, the perceived costs to entering the web hosting business are fairly low - someone can get setup with a dedicated box for under $100/mo these days, and they don't really consider the on-going costs and commitment required when they start of offer hosting at $2/mo. The fact of the matter is that when only $100/mo is at stake, most people will not put in the required time and effort to thoughtfully create a business plan, estblish sales goals, and try to get a healthy revenue stream going. Their primary concern is "breaking even" and then making a couple hundred extra bucks a month.

    Eventually there has to be be some type of market correction that will effect everyone. The bandwidth glut will vanish as providers go belly-up, data center providers will have to raise their rates because of the increasing / stablizing bandwidth prices, and the penny hosts will be forced out of the market. Customers will become more knowledgeable about what different web hosting companies are offering and will come to expect excellent customer service, SLAs, daily backups, etc; but they will also be willing to pay for the increased level of service.
    Jay Sudowski // Handy Networks LLC // Co-Founder & CTO
    AS30475 - Level(3), HE, Telia, XO and Cogent. Noction optimized network.
    Offering Dedicated Server and Colocation Hosting from our SSAE 16 SOC 2, Type 2 Certified Data Center.
    Current specials here. Check them out.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun 2000
    Location
    Orlando FL USA
    Posts
    1,316
    Customers will become more knowledgeable about what different web hosting companies are offering and will come to expect excellent customer service, SLAs, daily backups, etc; but they will also be willing to pay for the increased level of service.
    You describe the "good ol' days" above.... Let's just hope history repeats itself fast.
    FutureQuest.net
    Quality Services & Professional Support Since 1998
    Click Here To Visit the Community

  4. #4
    It happens in every industry, and I doubt it will get "better" in terms of many clients demanding more than they are paying for, and companies promising more than they can deliver and stay alive.

    What does happen though is that these small companies go bust, leaving clients high and dry so clients stop looking just at features and more at value.

    After all, with most companies and individuals' money drying up, they are starting to be more cautious in a good way. They will realise what they want and go for that. One of the reasons many hosts need to work on their sales pitches, in my opinion
    ::: Jeremy C. Wright :::
    http://www.ensight.org

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    California
    Posts
    1,991
    It is sickening to see everyone making these requests that are nearly impossible to fullfil, with making a profit. The other day someone requested 50 GB Bandwidth for $13 a month, which someone on a RackShack server could not provide, without losing money.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    977
    Hey..what does "SH" refer to in your forum user name?
    Orlando Magic--> 05-06 CHAMPS

  7. #7
    I already took that chance with offering what people wanted. As a result, my company had to restructure is management that wont be nearly as ready until Friday of this week. So, here's a word of caution to all the web hosts out there: Its better to haggle with the customer than to give into their every desire. You'll get run out of house n home.
    Regards,
    Santiago Yajan Cruz
    -----------------------------------------------
    [://Insert ancient Chinese saying here ...]

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    California
    Posts
    1,991
    Originally posted by sHosts
    Hey..what does "SH" refer to in your forum user name?
    SarviHosting

  9. #9
    Customers want the world for nothing. If they don't want to pay anything, they shouldn't be offered anything. It's as simple as that. If they don't want to spend money, don't waste your time.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Posts
    1,280
    My advice to everyone is, don't under price your services. If you don't make a profit, you can't survive in this business (or any other business for that matter). You might get fewer customers if you go with little higher prices but your profit will be more per customer and therefore you will have more time to spend supporting each customer which in its turn will generate happy customers and there is nothing better than a happy customer talking about you and your services.

    The important key here is patience. It takes time and effort to build a happy client base. It does not happen over a day, a week or even a month. Hang in there.

    PS. sHosts, as iamdave mentioned, SH in my nickname stands for Sarvi Hosting (our web hosting company).
    (SH)Saeed

  11. #11
    I fully agree with Saeed. But the funny part is that in spite of the outrageously low prices offered here, there just aren't that many takers.

    LOL! OK... so one gets a few clients for teeny weeny sums of money... but is it worth it? maybe they like to think that they are running a successful hosting company just because they also have 'some clients'!
    Chang Lee - Professional Designer
    (for Print, Television & Internet media)

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Posts
    1,280
    This forum has turned into a battle zone for under priced web hosts offering the world for a penny. This used to be a very good community to hang out in and learn from some very knowledgeable people a couple of years ago when I first joined. Now, I hardly enjoy visiting and being part of this battle zone. Itís like if you throw a sheep into a big flock of wolves waiting to sink their teeth into this little sheep. What really annoys me is that some hosts donít even seem to care what the poor guy has posted and only care about copy / pasting their packages. How much do you think this host will care about the client once he / she has signed up? Anyways, itís not my place to tell anyone how to run their business.

    Another thing I have ďobservedĒ is that a lot of new web hosts are not even yet adults. Why does a 14 year old thinking about running a business? When I was 14, all I cared about was hanging out with friends, playing videogames, etc. and not to run my own business. There is plenty of time for that later. Teens today are in such hurry to grow up and Internet has provided a disguise for them to do things they couldnít in real life because of their age.

    Also as Lee mentioned, your companyís survival is not based on how many clients you have. If you think about it, having 2 clients paying $50 each per month is a lot better than having 25 clients paying $2 each per month. Even if your profit is the same from both cases, you have to deal with and support 23 fewer clients in the first case. This will most likely leave a lot of free time for you to maybe spend on getting new customers, improving your services or why not spend time with your family. Since you wonít get flooded with work and support requests, you can use your profit on other things than hiring extra help. The bottom line is, if you offer a good and reliable service, people will tell their friends and you will get new customers.
    (SH)Saeed

  13. #13
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Posts
    1,513
    You make some good points there, SH.
    I think much of the rise in the "something for nothing" attude is the fault of my generation of baby boomers that have taught their children to try and get something for nothing. After all, kids are taught it's the American way.

    Even if I'm wrong in the above paragraph, I sure wouldn't go with a host under 25. Too many reasons, such as what if they go to college, etc. And I definitely wouldn't go with someone under 21 who can't sign a legally binding contract.

    I see people here at WHT occasionally complimenting the yunguns, saying how much initiative they have, etc. Maybe so, but it could be because they are anti-social or lazy and don't want to do any hard work or play. When I was young, I delivered newspapers, rode my bike, mowed lawns, swam, etc. I know it's a different generation; but these yunguns really do need to get outside, exercise and explore their youth instead of staying on computer. I won't even go into the obesity issue of teens these days, but to say that staying on the computer has contributed to much of it.

    Well, I'll probably get flamed for those comments... but I got my boots on.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    California
    Posts
    1,991
    Originally posted by chrisb
    You make some good points there, SSH.
    I think much of the rise in the "something for nothing" attude is the fault of my generation of baby boomers that have taught their children to try and get something for nothing. After all, kids are taught it's the American way.

    Even if I'm wrong in the above paragraph, I sure wouldn't go with a host under 25. Too many reasons, such as what if they go to college, etc. And I definitely wouldn't go with someone under 21 who can't sign a legally binding contract.

    I see people here at WHT occasionally complimenting the yunguns, saying how much initiative they have, etc. Maybe so, but it could be because they are anti-social or lazy and don't want to do any hard work or play. When I was young, I delivered newspapers, rode my bike, mowed lawns, swam, etc. I know it's a different generation; but these yunguns really do need to get outside, exercise and explore their youth instead of staying on computer. I won't even go into the obesity issue of teens these days, but to say that staying on the computer has contributed to much of it.

    Well, I'll probably get flamed for those comments... but I got my boots on.
    You make some good points, but computers and the internet have infected the minds of just about everyone, young or old.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Posts
    1,513
    Originally posted by iamdave
    You make some good points, but computers and the internet have infected the minds of just about everyone, young or old.
    Perhaps, though I tend to think it's infected more young people. Nonetheless, there's a big difference. After you finish college, get your career, family, and responsibilities in order (IOW, have your life stablized); I don't see it as being that much of a problem. I don't mean it as an insult to young people. I just hate to see them waste their youth. Well, I'm getting OT... again... STOP!

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    Indiana
    Posts
    421
    I'll go ahead and speak for myself (and hopefully all of the other teens).

    First.....my disclaimer: please don't take anything that I say personally....I am not bashing any particular hosts or individuals unless otherwise noted ( )

    If you are in a hurry and don't really care about what I'm saying below, please skip to the bottom.

    #############

    Freshman year.....took an electronic media class in high school. Part of the class was devoted to web page design. We had lessons and learned HMTL or whatever its called and put awesome web sites together with interactive links to amazon and had pictures of ourselves. Oh, we also learned about the BORDER tag and were able to create pictures with size 10 borders around them to make the effect of a picture frame around our picture! We could center the entire page to make it look really cool.

    Sophmore year.....knew HTML (and how to spell it) pretty well and started using FrontPage to make sites. I got curious one night about how people could put FORM things on their site, so I tried to figure it out. I ran into Pearl on a search engine and found it pretty interesting, so I started to learn and figure out what it was. I also became pretty familiar with Fireworks. I started a little business with a friend that would build web sites for people. I also heard about CommuniTech and was interested in hosting sites, but they charged a one-time fee of $150 (!) dollars just to become a reseller, plus you had to pay the monthly fee for your account.

    Junior year....knew Perl (learned how to spell it) pretty well and learned how to use MySQL databases and all sorts of things with it. I started my first business with my father. I moved away from my previous partner and began my own operation. I found SuccessfulHosting and began to resell for them after paying fees and paying monthly fees for each of my clients.

    Senior year....had several clients that required "medium-to-advanced" level scripts for their sites. I was a reseller for VO after paying the setup fees and getting the required package to be able to resell. Although I had several clients, I wasn't making any money because my of the bills I was having to pay out, plus gas/insurance for the parent's car, etc.

    Today (beginning of summer after my senior year)....I turn 18 in 2 days (Thursday)....my brother, father, and I are 3-way partners in a web development business. We provide hosting, along with web design services. After having an account with MCHost, I moved to my own dedicated server (which I share with a few other people to split the costs). I am making profit now and things are starting to look good.

    ##############

    I love what I do! I've been online and doing online things for over 4 years, and I'm just now starting to make profit from it. I always hear "You are in a great position in your life....no responsibilities, no bills, no obligations" and I understand what they're talking about. I've done this for 4 years and just now started making profit and it hasn't bothered me.

    From a hosting business standpoint, the perceived costs (as mentioned in an earlier post) are very little to enter the hosting business. When I first began web "stuff", I had a company wanting me to pay $150 to provide hosting to people. I haven't checked recently, but I think CommuniTech still has that kind of policy today. Now, I can get a xGB account for probably $10-$20 per month with no setup or upfront costs from a lot of places.

    Regarding the Web Hosting Request forum, I don't think people would post those outrageous requests if they saw that noone was offering services that cheap...but again, theres always going to be competition lowering prices.

    I don't think its fair that teenagers are thought of as being the ones that have ruined the hosting industry. There is always going to be competition and competition is what brings prices down and makes the people with higher overhead fall out. I am not forcing anyone that comes to my web site to order my hosting services. I would hope that you would agree. They are not required to order your services when they click on your name when it comes up on google. If a customer signed up with a hosting company and found out that it was run by someone who answers their email once every week and never monitors their servers, they would probably cancel their service and find another hosting company.....BUT, they know what to look for now. If someone claims to provide a certain service and they don't, they should be taken to court for false advertising.





    I dunno.....disregard everything I've said above....I just needed to vent. I've seen posts on here talking about an age limit to start a web hosting business and I've seen people weary about signing up with companies run by teenagers, and it kinda got under my skin. It's like having an age limit for lemonade stands. If the child can make the lemonade, its good and it doesn't make them sick, then why should you care?

    I think I covered both issues brought up in this thread. Sorry for the long post....didn't realize I had that much in me. Oh, and if you get confused by something that I said, its probably cause I've re-read and edited my post several times. I am usually a really un-opinion-ated person and wouldn't post things like I have above, but I needed to. I apologize to everyone for anything I said above.

    p.s.: I'm not obese

    <EDIT>Ok, I just read through my post, and for some reason, I feel like I'm standing in front of all of you naked. PLEASE DON'T HATE ME!</EDIT>
    "Last year, some resourceful software enthusiasts cracked Sony Music's proprietary technology simply by scribbling around the edges of the disc with a Magic Marker pen, thus enabling playback on any device." - news.com

  17. #17
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Posts
    1,513
    Hi Troy,
    I really enjoyed reading your post and hearing your side. You had a lot of good things to say. JFYI, I don't dislike young people. As a matter of fact, I find that many of them are smart and nice people; and it keeps me feeling young hanging around them sometimes. That said, I personally don't think they should be in the hosting business, but that's just my opinion, and I could be wrong.

    I do agree with you about the ridiculous hosting offers being the host's fault, and that if these plans were not offered, then potential customers would eventually stop asking for them.

    BTW... Congrats on all of those accomplishments while you were in school.
    Last edited by chrisb; 06-25-2002 at 05:59 AM.

  18. #18
    I started my little hosting venture the day I left high school. I went to university for four years while running the hosting business. It was hard at times when maintaining servers for 500 sites and doing fulltime study and other part time jobs.

    The hard work is now paying off. I have finished university, graduated ontime and now work fulltime on my hosting business with 4 part time employees managing over 1000 sites. I am now 23 years old. We're growing very quickly with up to 10 new sites per day. Highest was 14 news sites in a day.

    I don't have the time for people who want the cheapest hosting packages. They want everything for nothing, take up all your time and aren't loyal. They'll move to the next cheapest deal they find.

    I am wanting to provide a great service for a decent price.

    Regards,
    Nigel

  19. #19
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    United States of Walmart
    Posts
    687

    webmastertroy

    in response to....." I haven't checked recently, but I think CommuniTech still has that kind of policy today. "

    The $150 fee is not applicable anymore.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •