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  1. #1
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    1.83 Ghz MacBook vs. 1.6 Ghz Sony Vaio

    Hi,

    I need a little help making a new lap top purchase here. This is the last night I have to come to a decison.

    I have right now a Sony Vaio vgn-n130g which I just bought trying to replace my hp dv8000. The thing is I am hung up on getting a mac and have been ever since they started running those ads on tv. But the only one I can afford is the $1,099 one. I have been reading up on that model and here are some of the stats vs. my vaio.

    Vaio: $999, I got it on sale for $700
    1.6 Ghz Centrino Duo
    1 GB RAM
    80 GB HDD
    15.4 Screen (which is twice as bright as my old Dell CRT monitor btw, really nice)
    Double Layer DVDRW support (what's that mean anyway?)
    WiFi Compatable


    MacBook: $1,099
    1.83 Ghz Centrino Duo Core 2
    512 MB RAM
    60 GB HDD
    13.3 Monitor
    No Double Layer Support
    WiFi/Bluetooth compatable
    built in iSight camera
    built in microphone

    Will the Core 2 Duo out perform the 1GM RAM 1.6Ghz Sony Vaio?

    I really don't do much with my laptops other than surf the net, design a website here and there for work, and transfer files to and from my psp and ipod. Not much other than that, oh and some papers for school.

    Not really sure why I want the Mac so bad. It might be the fact that my wife is in love with them and wants one real bad, or that my friend Ryan can't stop talking about how bad he wants one, and all those Mac VS PC commericals. Plus, everytime I am reading a debate on a forum and the topic is graphic design and what system unit is best, Mac is usually the untouted winner with the most loyal users.

    Also what's up with the no right click ability on the MAC? I think it might be a pain to have to get used to the cntrl+clicking to copy and paste things.

    I read the Mac has a scrolling trackpad, like most laptops do now, can someone confirm this?

    What do you think, is it worth it to return my Vaio back to Best Buy knowing the steal I got when buying it, sell off my old HP dv8000 to get a new MacBook?

    I think I am jus a little scetched out because of a review I read over at macworld.com saying that the Mac in my price range really is nothing special. See http://www.macworld.com/2006/11/revi...ore2/index.php for the review.

    Thanks,
    Last edited by Jeff Smith; 12-10-2006 at 08:03 AM.
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  2. #2
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    I can help you here, as I have worked on both, and hopefully give you some non-hype information.

    Will the Core 2 Duo out perform the 1GM RAM 1.6Ghz Sony Vaio?
    Yes, Core 2 Duo is the advanced (next gen) processor. You would be better with more RAM, but performance wise, its a no brainer.

    I really don't do much with my laptops other than surf the net, design a website here and there for work, and transfer files to and from my psp and ipod. Not much other than that, oh and some papers for school.
    Well for these things, you would be happy either way. I have no experience with a PSP, but I would check if it is easy to transfer files to it via OSX. That is the only thing that would concern me here, other than that -- its a non issue.

    Not really sure why I want the Mac so bad. It might be the fact that my wife is in love with them and wants one real bad, or that my friend Ryan can't stop talking about how bad he wants one, and all those Mac VS PC commericals.
    Well there are lots of reasons, I have my own. Remember that with the new macs and bootcamp, you can run both Windows and OS X on your computer as dual boot. A great reason to jump to the OS X wagon (as if you needed another one).

    Also what's up with the no right click ability on the MAC? I think it might be a pain to have to get used to the cntrl+clicking to copy and paste things.
    This is perhaps the biggest concern that non-Mac people have. I can tell you from personal experience it is a non issue. For the first day, you might get frustrated, but it doesn't take long to get used to it. Also, if you plug in any two-button mouse in any Apple computer, you can use the right click functionality without any effort. Apple+c, Apple+v also work great

    I read the Mac has a scrolling trackpad, like most laptops do now, can someone confirm this?
    Yes, they have had these now for a while. You need to use two fingers to scroll (you place one finger on the trackpad, and use the other to scroll), which is great because you accidentally don't scroll while dribbling around the trackpad like I used to do.

    What do you think, is it worth it to return my Vaio back to Best Buy knowing the steal I got when buying it, sell off my old HP dv8000 to get a new MacBook?
    I would hold out and get a 15" MacBook Pro, because I can never get enough screen space. However, based on your requirements, you would be fine on the 13" MacBook. If you have an external monitor, then by all means get the 13".
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  3. #3
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    wow, some really great advice, thank you for your help!

    edit: GUI question

    If you use the Windows OS on the Mac, does it use the Front Row or the windows standard system tray and windows?
    Last edited by Jeff Smith; 12-10-2006 at 08:27 AM.
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  4. #4
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    If you use the Windows OS on the Mac, does it use the Front Row or the windows standard system tray and windows?
    Front Row doesn't work on Windows as it is a pure OSX application. I have also heard that the built-in camera doesn't work, but they may have drivers for it by now.

    When you use Windows on a Mac (using bootcamp) you really cannot tell its a Mac computer (other than the obvious design). The only other clue is a small icon in the control panel that allows you to switch which OS starts up by default (or is a choice given). Other than that, its pure Windows.

    Also note, you must already own Windows XP (SP2) in order to use bootcamp. Bootcamp doesn't come with a Windows license.
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  5. #5
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    Can I run my old applications like Photoshop 7 and Frontpage 03 in Tiger OS X?

    The reason I ask is because I don't have Windows XP on a CD or a Serial Number that I could install on the Mac, and if I couldn't use PS7 and FP3 on the mac without having to install windows on it I wouldn't get it.


    Thanks again man, you are a big help!
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  6. #6
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    Photoshop is available for Macs natively, so for best performance, you should consider purchasing a Mac version.

    Frontpage 3 -- I'm not sure about since its an application that relies heavily on the Office libraries. Even MS Office for Mac doesn't include Frontpage. I personally haven't used Frontpage.

    I would suggest Dreamweaver (which has a native OS X version) and runs great.

    There is a great library of useful free and cheap software for the Mac. I suggest you browse around some more before you decide to jump ship. There is some software for which there is no (or very early beta) Windows equivalent.

    Just a short list of software I enjoy on Mac:

    Adium - A multi-protocol IM client
    Growl - A notification utility with hooks into many applications. Really no way to explain how it works. Imagine the alert popups you get from MSN when someone signs on -- only now they work with many applications are are themed. The site has screenshots.
    Textmate - One of the main reasons I use OSX. Simply one of the best editors out there (non-free).
    Salling Clicker - A great remote control utility for your bluetooth-enabled mobile phone. Now with a Windows (beta) version.
    Quicksilver - A very powerful application launcher and task switcher + search application. Has many, many, many features.
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  7. #7
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    I would take the Vaio without a doubt.

    You get more:

    Ram
    HD
    Bigger screen
    A dual layer burner
    You can also use your old software

    But the last time i had a Vaio computer the HD blow up. Buy i would still take the Vaio.

  8. #8
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    Why in the blazes would you pay 1000 bucks that you dont need to spend for anything????

    This is the machine you have NOW:

    HP DV8000

    Operating System: MS Windows XP Professional
    Processor Name: Mobile AMD Turion 64 ML-40
    Processor Speed: 2.2 GHz
    RAM: 1024 MB
    Weight: 8.2 lb
    Screen Size: 17 inches
    Screen Size Type: widescreen
    Graphics Card: ATI Radeon XPRESS 200
    Storage Capacity: 200 GB
    Networking Options: 802.11g
    Primary Optical Drive: Dual-Layer DVD+/-RW

    Can you please explain to me and the rest of the group why you are going to WASTE 1000 bucks replacing this machine with a lesser power one?

    Go take your money to burn and invest it in stocks or something that will make you money. Keep your current laptop.

  9. #9
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    Mac enthusiasts sure seem to be enthusiastic about them. The tiny amount of time I have spent dabbling in trying a Mac I can't see why, but maybe if you have help from someone who really knows what he or she is doing the experience is different. I think you should try to spend some time with a friend's Mac before pouring money into a new computer.

  10. #10
    MacBook all the way!

  11. #11
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    yay! i disagree with josh

    i just bought a 'laptop' recently for &#163;800.

    the spec is

    1.66Ghz core 2 duo
    2GB ram
    17" screen (1440x900)
    120GB harddisk
    256MB geforce go 7300 graphics
    dual layer dvd burner
    wifi
    built in camera
    built in mic
    built in memory card reader

    it's plenty fast, might be the ram though. personally i would not go for a mac ever. i have heard some sob stories reagarding apple care, or the lack of.

    15" should be the minimum if you want to work on it for some time, anything smaller is really for taking on the train or plane.
    <erno> hm. I've lost a machine.. literally _lost_. it responds to ping, it works completely, I just can't figure out where in my apartment it is.

  12. #12
    Of course you've heard some bad stories, but I can guarantee you, if you surveyed every computer owner, the ratio of people hating mac, to people hating pc, would be quite one sided.

    God bless Mac!

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by joshcrick
    Of course you've heard some bad stories, but I can guarantee you, if you surveyed every computer owner, the ratio of people hating mac, to people hating pc, would be quite one sided.

    God bless Mac!
    i use WinXP daily and i don't hate it. It run what i want, play games...etc. No virus, no spyware and no blue screen for me since 2003 and it run fine on both AMD or Intel platform.

    if you can't secure your windows, go with Mac or whatever. IMO, Mac is overpriced commodity that doesn't justified spending over $1000 to run OS X on Intel platform.

    why oeverpay for Intel? does OS X worth the extra $1000? i think not!

  14. #14
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    I just got back from the Apple store. Now I am the proud new owner of a MacBook! I found out that they offer a student discount, so I got the black model two up from the entry level one.

    Stats:
    2 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
    1 GB RAM
    120 HDD
    Built in Camera and Mic
    Infared Remote Control
    Magnetic Power Cord
    FREE Canon Printer with 1.9" color lcd display.
    Price: $1,400 after student discount

    I took the Vaio back to Best Buy without any problems, I was pretty shocked when they just said, "thank you sir, is there anything else I can help you with?" I was expecting some more hoops and red tape to go through. I will definatly visit them again because of this.

    So far the Mac is faster than the Vaio. It's not really night and day, as the Vaio was pretty quick. But it is noticible like maybe 25% quicker.

    The way I look at it I will be keeping and using this thing for 5 years so it is well worth the money over the course of time.

    The screen is 13.3 but it is enough to not feel cramped like the 12 inch monitors I have seen. It is perfect for a student like me, the 17 laptop I have is just too big for the tiny little desks at school.

    I watched the Movie Troy on this with my Phillips 80 watt Laptop speakers and all I have to say is "hell ya".

    This thing is great and super easy to use, plus now I can show it off to my friend Ryan who kept talking smack about my Vaio compared to the Apple that he wishes he had.

    Can't wait to get some more software installed on this baby.

    Any suggestions on cool mac software?
    Last edited by Jeff Smith; 12-11-2006 at 03:10 AM.
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  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by jt2377
    i use WinXP daily and i don't hate it. It run what i want, play games...etc. No virus, no spyware and no blue screen for me since 2003 and it run fine on both AMD or Intel platform.

    if you can't secure your windows, go with Mac or whatever. IMO, Mac is overpriced commodity that doesn't justified spending over $1000 to run OS X on Intel platform.

    why oeverpay for Intel? does OS X worth the extra $1000? i think not!
    Apple's can run XP as well. Plus Mac's 1000-2000 computer range is equally priced, and sometimes beats IBM Based Desktops.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Smith
    Any suggestions on cool mac software?
    2nd Story TaxACT
    Polyhedric WAVMaker
    Microsoft Encarta Reference Library DVD
    Globalink / L&H Power Translator

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by joshcrick
    Apple's can run XP as well. Plus Mac's 1000-2000 computer range is equally priced, and sometimes beats IBM Based Desktops.
    you just make my point. if yout want to overpay for Intel, that's your problem.

  18. #18
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    Any suggestions on cool mac software?
    I listed some above:

    Quote Originally Posted by fyrestrtr
    Just a short list of software I enjoy on Mac:

    Adium - A multi-protocol IM client
    Growl - A notification utility with hooks into many applications. Really no way to explain how it works. Imagine the alert popups you get from MSN when someone signs on -- only now they work with many applications are are themed. The site has screenshots.
    Textmate - One of the main reasons I use OSX. Simply one of the best editors out there (non-free).
    Salling Clicker - A great remote control utility for your bluetooth-enabled mobile phone. Now with a Windows (beta) version.
    Quicksilver - A very powerful application launcher and task switcher + search application. Has many, many, many features.
    But in addition to those:

    VLC Media Player
    Fugu and Cyberduck -- two great file transfer programs
    Simultron (HTML editor with hooks to Cyberduck)
    Colloquy (IRC)
    Cabos (gnutella client - p2p)
    Vienna (RSS reader)
    Centerstage (full screen media interface -- ala Windows Media Center)
    Freemind (great tool for taking notes)
    SNES9x (free SNES emulator)
    Poisoned and Tomato Torrent are to torrent clients.

    All above are free and open source
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  19. #19
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    I also use VLC and Cyberduck every day and can say they are great. For p2p I really think Acquisition is the best out there.

    Parallels for WinXP
    iStat for system monitoring (or iStat Nano widget)
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  20. #20
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    +1 for iStat. Great app.

    I have only played with a Parallels demo, but found it to be on-par with other virtualization software, in that performance depends on the hardware that you have (I tried it on non-Intel hardware, but if given the choice, I would dual boot using bootcamp on intel macs).

    Acquisition looks nice.

    Also, don't forget the tons of widgets.

    I am personally waiting on Leopard to come out before I purchase my MacBook. Timemachine and core animation really sealed the deal for me.

    I'll still keep a Windows machine around for gaming purposes, but that's about what it does today anyway (I use Linux primarily).
    Last edited by Burhan; 12-11-2006 at 07:33 AM.
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  21. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by fyrestrtr
    ....
    But the mouse CAN right-click yeah? At least i configured mine that way..
    Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.

  22. #22
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    But the mouse CAN right-click yeah?
    Yeah, any two button mouse works as expected in OS X.
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  23. #23
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    Can the MAC run IIS?
    How about MSDN or Visual Studio?
    What if I want to waste time playing FarCry... will it run?

    I would love to know these answers from someone with experience.
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  24. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by jt2377
    you just make my point. if yout want to overpay for Intel, that's your problem.
    Core 2 Duo totally own AMD. Don't go on about overpriced Intel Chips.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by joshcrick
    Core 2 Duo totally own AMD. Don't go on about overpriced Intel Chips.
    totally own? how old are you, son?

    if you like to flush your money down the toilet. that's your problem. btw, Apple's Mac are build by the same Taiwan/Chinese company that make Dell's laptop and yeah, you overpay for your Intel chip inside a Mac. LOL at you.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by joshcrick
    Core 2 Duo totally own AMD. Don't go on about overpriced Intel Chips.
    there are many benchmark test that show AMD outshine Intel in certain area while Intel is better in other area. both cpu are actually very competeive but with one expection that AMD chip cost less. Apple won't even run Intel Core Duo if it wasn't for AMD to plug the hole in Intel's road map. Do you know Intel was going to force everyone to use 64bit cpu without a chip for everyone to make the transition from x86 because AMD first release x86-64 now you have Core Duo. that's the advantage of PC, you have choice! with apple, you're basically picking up which Mac fit your outfit!

    enjoy your overpriced Mac. while i stash away my money in a savings account and purchase a new laptop within two years that come with all new hardware because i didn't overpay!

  27. #27
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    Overpay for intel? Yeah I did, but you know what? I doesn't even matter to me because today for the first time ever when I opened up my macbook, it opened up to the desktop INSTANTLY. I have owned 3 Windows based machines all with intel 3,4 and core duo and NONE of them were able to do that. It would take them atleast 15 seconds to boot up to be ready to use. For someone as impatient as me, it's a godsend.

    Plus with the built in blue tooth I can now surf the net anywhere using my RAZR's internet connection that is unlimted per month for $5. So now I can surf the net while in class, which I was not able to do before thanks to the schools BS security nonsense. I know there are probably some other laptops out there with BT capabilities, but I never saw one in my price range when I was shopping. That in itself is worth the price of admission.

    This the best investment I have ever made. Period.


    Thanks fyrestrtr and Disgruntled for the heads up on all that sweet apps. I especially like the Simultron HTML editor and the software that allows you to turn your cellphone into a remote control. Pretty F'n sweet idea if you ask me.
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  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Smith
    Overpay for intel? Yeah I did, but you know what? I doesn't even matter to me because today for the first time ever when I opened up my macbook, it opened up to the desktop INSTANTLY. I have owned 3 Windows based machines all with intel 3,4 and core duo and NONE of them were able to do that. It would take them atleast 15 seconds to boot up to be ready to use. For someone as impatient as me, it's a godsend.

    Plus with the built in blue tooth I can now surf the net anywhere using my RAZR's internet connection that is unlimted per month for $5. So now I can surf the net while in class, which I was not able to do before thanks to the schools BS security nonsense. I know there are probably some other laptops out there with BT capabilities, but I never saw one in my price range when I was shopping. That in itself is worth the price of admission.

    This the best investment I have ever made. Period.


    Thanks fyrestrtr and Disgruntled for the heads up on all that sweet apps. I especially like the Simultron HTML editor and the software that allows you to turn your cellphone into a remote control. Pretty F'n sweet idea if you ask me.
    run linux then, who say you can only run Windows on PC.

  29. #29
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    Does linux boot faster? I don't know much about using linux.

    I have actually always wanted to install it to see what it is all about, but didn't want to risk ruining my only PC. Now I can experiment on it, thanks for bringing that up.
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  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Smith

    Thanks fyrestrtr and Disgruntled for the heads up on all that sweet apps. I especially like the Simultron HTML editor and the software that allows you to turn your cellphone into a remote control. Pretty F'n sweet idea if you ask me.
    Actually my reply was meant to be sarcastic. All the programs I listed were Windows programs with no Mac version.

  31. #31
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    Can the MAC run IIS?
    How about MSDN or Visual Studio?
    What if I want to waste time playing FarCry... will it run?
    1. No, the Mac (like any other non-Windows operating system) cannot run IIS. If you want to run IIS for ASP.NET applications -- you might as well invest in a Windows 2003 Server. If you just want to play with IIS, then you can do what everyone else does that doesn't run Windows -- either dual boot, or use virtualization software to run Windows.

    2. MSDN is an online service, which you can access from any browser. If you are talking about the MSDN library that comes with Visual Studio, then no -- it cannot. There is also no Visual Studio for Mac; there are other great development envrionments (free) for the Mac, like Xcode. If you must run Visual Studio, then you'll need to explore virtualization, dual boot with bootcamp or purchase a separate Windows machine.

    3. Not being familiar with FarCry the game, I had to look it up. No, it seems that FarCry is a Windows-only game.

    Does linux boot faster? I don't know much about using linux.
    The reason your Mac "boots" so fast is because of its excellent suspend/resume support. Actual booting (ie, cold start) of the computer is on par with Linux; however hardware support is getting better in Linux so eventually, you'll get the equal performance that you do on a Mac.

    By the way, since you have an Intel Mac, if you ever decide to try out Linux, you can freely do so by dual booting the machine. The Intel-based Macs are the only machines I know that can triple boot into Windows, OS X and Linux.
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  32. #32
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    2. MSDN is an online service, which you can access from any browser. If you are talking about the MSDN library that comes with Visual Studio, then no -- it cannot. There is also no Visual Studio for Mac; there are other great development envrionments (free) for the Mac, like Xcode. If you must run Visual Studio, then you'll need to explore virtualization, dual boot with bootcamp or purchase a separate Windows machine.

    No. MSDN is a subscription. You're thinking about the free libaray that you can browse on MS website.

    What you get with MSDN is all the MS's software for development that include at least 5 copy of Visual Studio.net.

  33. #33
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    MSDN is a subscription
    To my knowledge, here are the different MSDNs

    1. MSDN Website, that is the kb and a large library of documentation (free)
    2. MSDN discs that you get when you purchase Visual Studio; this also comes with a limited time MSDN subscription.
    3. MSDN subscription (which you can purchase separately)

    Of all the above, you can only access 1 using something other than Windows.
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  34. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by jt2377
    there are many benchmark test that show AMD outshine Intel in certain area while Intel is better in other area. both cpu are actually very competeive but with one expection that AMD chip cost less. Apple won't even run Intel Core Duo if it wasn't for AMD to plug the hole in Intel's road map. Do you know Intel was going to force everyone to use 64bit cpu without a chip for everyone to make the transition from x86 because AMD first release x86-64 now you have Core Duo. that's the advantage of PC, you have choice! with apple, you're basically picking up which Mac fit your outfit!

    enjoy your overpriced Mac. while i stash away my money in a savings account and purchase a new laptop within two years that come with all new hardware because i didn't overpay!
    I will enjoy my Mac, what's the bet you purchase your lovely AMD chip, and it's super-seeded by an Intel chip the next day.

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