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  1. #1

    IP House, disallowed access, withholding hardware, unpaid bills.. but not our fault!

    Hi all,

    Got a nice little story to tell you all about the current situation I am in with my collocation provider. Because legal action is being taken I am withholding the names of the companies in concerning until my companies hardware is released. The companies in question will appear as "Company A” and "Company Z". “Company A” is my collocation provider (the person I pay for collocation, receive support etc) and "Company Z" is the company which "Company A" uses as there provider for racks and bandwidth. As soon as the hardware is released I will name “Company A” as they are a complete joke of a collocation provider.

    It all started in May 2006 when our old provider (RapidSwitch) increased costs for the Red Bus price hikes. The new quote which was given to us by RapidSwitch had risen by 3 folds for just half a rack (hitting £700 per month with 1000gb bandwidth). As a growing game server provider with no more than half rack this was well above budget of what we could afford so moving was the only option available to us, so the hunt for a new collocation provider started.

    With a lot of companies not willing to give out quotes due to their Red Bus renewal was soon and where unsure of their new prices, moving to a new data centre which wasn’t Red Bus looked like a good option. One of the quotes received was from “Company A” at IP House. With our renewal for Rapid Switch due a matter of a month away, we had to move quickly. One constraint of moving into IP House was “Company A’s” network wouldn’t be installed into IP House for a week and we would be on temporary transit until there network was installed. They were also doing a migration from Red Bus to IP House from RapidSwitch also.

    The move was quick and reasonably painless (apart from major issues of Sat Nav, Black Wall tunnel and finding IP House) . The major issues and problems started was when the temporary bandwidth wasn’t holding our servers too well with high ping spikes, high lag etc. We let these problems go due to the fact we were told that the network would be installed a week later and the fact they saved us from a dark place. The bandwidth and the rack was provided and owned by “Company Z” but “Company A” was our provider (still with me?)

    2 weeks past and we were reasonably happy to be out of Red Bus, no more overheating issues, no £60 per hour charges to visit our own hardware but we were still on this temporary bandwidth. As time passed we needed our collocation provider to do little bits of maintenance for us such as when our reboot racks wouldn’t bring a server back up. We thought we had hit gold when our provider turned around and yes no problem, no charge!. But it didn’t, with deadlines given to us, we found they were never even met. We were told that there would be someone to do our maintenance for us on a night which would only fall through. Out of 20 requests for help from them and us being given a time when a person was there to look at it, only twice out of 6 months + of service did someone actually look at it (or so im told).

    The funny thing is, when the person “looked at it” we just got a reply from Company A saying it gets to the login screen and that is it, they didn’t repair the fault or diagnose it. Because we couldn’t rely on them to do anything I would travel the 100 miles plus to IP House to do the repairs myself.

    Gets to the login screen? My a*rse, they both had fried motherboards which didn’t post anything. We were just passed off with a load of rubbish.

    Now I have no real problem in visiting the data centre to do the work but another one of those great problems we have had with this provider is getting access into IP House. The last 3 times I have visited we have had issues of access, first instance was getting access for myself and my business partner. We had told our provider that we would be visiting on X date and Y time with a week notice with constant reminder emails during the week that we were going. When I arrived at 1am after picking my partner up from Gatwick airport, I was told that we were nowhere to be found on the list. As I am sure you can imagine the poor bloke outside IP House got a shouting via his intercom  He couldn’t do much more than give us a managers number and wait. Luckily enough we managed to blag our way in after 2hrs of phone calls.

    A few weeks later I had to perform some upgrades to our servers, this time I went on my own and from the situation I had last time I gave a week notice. Guess what? Same thing happened again but this time I was waiting outside IP House for 8 hours! The contact number for Company A couldn’t “give a sh*t” and was either impossible to contact , just hung up on me or told me to wait it out. As I am sure you would be.. I was fuming. Sitting outside IP House on a Friday night isn’t nice! Luckily enough one of the techs in IP House felt sorry for me (after 8 hours) and contacted the rack owner to get me access. This is where I found out that Company A was renting from Company Z. Company Z gave me access for the night. After 3 weeks of pushing I got an apology letter but nothing out of it..

    Now for the last 3 months we have had major network issues with the temp. transit which Company A not admitting fault and blaming it on NTL and other people. Because it wasn’t going to get sorted by itself we gave them an option to either move us to the new network or we move out. We were given promises that the new network would be put into place within a week but unfortunately it still has not. This was 3 months ago.. since then he either doesn’t reply to emails, gives us lame deadlines or just plain old lies to us. The network is so poor we get pings of 200 plus, huge lag spikes and major delays on voice servers and certain types of game servers. As I am sure you can imagine we lost a lot of business and had a lot of charge backs! We were promised he would change the routes into the servers, it took him over a month for him to do it. He just lies..

    During November we said enough was enough and went to move out on the 1st December to BlueSquare. With us giving a week’s notice that I would be visiting the data centre, I contacted Company A the night before to 100% check that we are on the list considering people would be relying on us to help us install at BlueSquare. Company A didn’t have any guarantee that we where on the list and that they were waiting on a email reply from Company Z. Knowing how Company A works which is put as little effort in as possible I requested he rang Company Z himself.. I was shocked to find he refused and I had to do it myself. Due it being past 5pm I was unable to contact Company Z and was forced to try to contact IP house direct to see if I was on the access list. Again we were not on the list! Next morning (the day I leave) I contact Company Z to find out what was happening directly instead of being promised by Company A that he would find out. After waiting on the phone for a while, being promised to be called back and wasn’t I find that Company A hasn’t paid Company Z a single invoice since I moved into the rack over 6+ months ago. Company Z where now denying me access because Company A hasn’t paid. I was told that It should be sorted by Tuesday (5th December) but still Company A still hasn’t paid. I have been ready to go to the datacentre every day this week but only to be on the phone trying to sort out the mess. I have now been told that “Company Z” will not talk to me as suggested by their lawyers as I don’t have a contract with them in person.

    On Wednesday (6th) I contacted “Company A” to find out what was happening to only to be told that he was waiting for a call back from “Company Z”. I was told I would receive a call back after 15 mins but never did, so every hour I rang back trying to find out what was happening. I was just left being told that he hadn’t rang them yet and he was going to ring them back now and then call me back in 15 mins. This happened from about 4 times that day until I gave up. That night “Company Z” sent me a text message that they hadn’t received or heard anything from “Company A” and they were going down the legal route. So I currently have 2 offline servers in the rack, a crappy network, losing customers because of it and I can’t do anything because Company A decided that they don’t want to pay any of their bills. We are not a priority to Company A even though I have taken time off work for 4 days running so I can do the move. We have always paid our bills on time or even a week early when Company A asked us to as we were told they where skint.

    So now what to do? Wait it out? I currently have a ½ rack sitting in Bluesquare with my name on it but can’t do anything because I can’t get my hardware. I wonder if the other people who have hardware in the same ½ rack as us in IP House know about the situation. Suppose I have to pray they don’t cut our power or bandwidth also! As per normal the little man gets screwed over

    Give me your thoughts and suggestions.

    [/endrant]

    -Chris

  2. #2
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    If you can afford it Chris I would recommend bringing up a server or two in Bluehouse so that you can at least get the data off the servers you have at IP House and start rebuilding your reputation.

    As for the situation, I think you should talk to an Attorney and see where you stand in getting your equipment back.

  3. #3
    I have 2 brand spanking new servers sitting on my floor waiting to go As its game servers its not as easy as just restoring all our customers.. theres a good 12 servers in that half rack and its going to be hard to put all those customers on those two new dedicated boxes even tho they are quite high speced boxes.

    What is even harder is not all our customers understand the situation they are in even though there servers are online and working to a reasonable standard. We do have complete backups of the important things such as all databases for controlpanel, voice servers etc but its not an easy move. You never know Company A may pay up asap when they receive the legal letter from Company Z which should arrive on Monday.

  4. #4
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    IF you had gone direct with Company Z would it have have helped avoid this unfortunate problem.... My brain started hurting reading half-way down.

  5. #5
    Unfortuantly you dont know that people resell etc until your in there and later down the line. If I had a choice I would of never gone to a cheap option at all instead, pay the little bit extra and find better alternatives. From dealing with Company Z directly to solve the problem, I still think we would of had issues with them over the long term but Im not a customer so I cant really prove that.

    The problems mentioned above can really disappear and I would of let everything go If we could just get our hardware out and get it moved to the new DC. But no we are being punished for Company A's mistakes that they can pay a simple invoice.

    -Chris

  6. #6
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    Bring your two servers online at BlueSquare so that you can show new customers that you have good servers and move some of your more "persistent" old customers over to avoid losing them.

    Then sit down with an attorney who can deal with Company Z directly and bypass company A and see what arrangements can be made.

    Unfortunately it looks like they may force you into paying "some" of Company A's bill but you might be able to get a set amount and settle it out and be done.

  7. #7
    Hi Larry,

    From my knowledge of law, they have no legal right to withhold our hardware. The issue is between Company A and not us. If they did try and withhold them then surely it is stealing and blackmail if they wish for us to pay to get our hardware back. If they do try and take hold of our servers and may even sell them on to make money then they will have to go to court and get debt collector.

    There is not a chance they can charge us for another companies debt surley.

    -Chris

  8. #8
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    Chris,

    Your contract is with Company A. Company A places servers and equipment in a rack it leases from Company Z.

    As far as Company Z is concerned those servers and equipment belong to Company A "MOST LIKELY", depending on there contract to verify.

    If Company A never told Company Z that they were placing other Companies equipment in that rack then Company Z has no knowledge nor legal proof that equipment is yours.

    Which is why you need to talk to an attorney to find where you stand.

  9. #9
    We do have legal proof with invoices of the server purchases, unquie ids such as motherboard serials, processor serials, all servers labeled with our company name etc. So if lets say it went to court we would have proof that the servers do belong to us and not company A.

    As far as I understand Company Z understand that other companies hardware are colocated with them. Heck when I first installed it was the manager of Company Z who helped me installed and not company A.

  10. #10
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    The unfortunate truth is this: you should not expect Company Z to do anything to help you. Their only legal relationship is with Company A, they have absolutely no relationship with you. You've got to understand, they have NO idea what your terms with Company A are; they can't just let you go pull your equipment because then they've likely violated their contract with Company A which states something to the effect of 'no unauthorized access'. Such is the reality of purchasing colo services from a reseller.

    What I would do is have an attorney contact Company Z and show them a copy of the contract you have in place with Company A, along with copies of your paid receipts (CC statements, cancelled checks, whatever) showing that your account is current. Explain the situation them and MAYBE, *maybe* they'll cut you a slack. You have to understand in doing so they are taking on a liability and most DC's won't be keen on the added risk for a customer they don't even have a relationship with. Perhaps if you were going to purchase space as a direct customer they would be more willing to help you get your gear. But you never know, occasionally DC operators will do the right thing. I'm sure they see this situation often and have a policy for dealing with it. That's why you should get a lawyer to make the call.

    Colo providers that hold your equipment hosting (out of spite, not because an account is arrears) SUCK. IMHO.

    Brandon

  11. #11
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    *ouch*

    I cant give any specific advice, as I could only guess at who co-A and co-Z are, but ...

    firstly it's not an IPH issue, so your subject is misleading, you might be *in* their DC but you're contract is not with them.

    so IPH rent space to Co-Z
    Co-Z rent space top Co-A
    Co-A rent space to you

    all "fairly" standard reseller of reseller type stuff.

    it's company-Z who have to grant you access, as they are the client of the datacentre. and they have no business relationship with you, so your request will have to come from company-A

    the datacentre wont allow anyone in, or equipment out if Co-Z havent paid the DC
    Co-Z wont allow anyone in or equipment out in Co-A havent paid them
    Co-A presumably wont allow anything out if they're owed money

    Suppose I have to pray they don’t cut our power or bandwidth also
    If Z havent been paid in 6 months, thats a very real possibility.
    Get a solicitor to make a formal request to Co-A for your kit back, dig out all the recepits and so forth, you *might* be in for a long ride getting it
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  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by othellotech
    *ouch*
    firstly it's not an IPH issue, so your subject is misleading, you might be *in* their DC but you're contract is not with them.

    so IPH rent space to Co-Z
    Co-Z rent space top Co-A
    Co-A rent space to you

    it's company-Z who have to grant you access, as they are the client of the datacentre. and they have no business relationship with you, so your request will have to come from company-A

    the datacentre wont allow anyone in, or equipment out if Co-Z havent paid the DC
    Co-Z wont allow anyone in or equipment out in Co-A havent paid them
    Co-A presumably wont allow anything out if they're owed money
    I couldnt exactly put the company A name in the title so putting IP House in was the best bet

    Company Z know that we have hardware with Company A as I have met them and spoken to them on frequent times. The situation is, Company Z have kept the rack totally paid up to the data centre, All clients have paid Company A on time, in certain cases well before the payment due date and are owed no money. Company A has not paid Company Z once since the rack has been installed. In otherwords, Company A have screw us over for no reason..

    Company A has made no effort to pay any of the invoices since locking down the rack over a week plus ago. Kinda guessed I would be in for the long run getting our stuff back

    -Chris

  13. #13
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    This just makes my blood boil... Chris, I hope you manage to get your equipment back in a timely manner. I can't believe Company A would / could do such a thing. Unreal...
    Dan Bulmer
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  14. #14
    If push comes to shove, try searching for the definition of "theft by conversion". Because "theft" is also "depriving the rightful owner the use of property".

    Company Z may not have a contractual relationship with the OP, but neither may they hold the OP hostage as a means of negotiating with Company A.

    Once they have been duly informed that the OP owns the equipment, and are provided with proper documentation, they are on very shaky ground at that point.

    In some jurisdictions, the best protection for colocated equipment is to register cautions or liens on the equipment with the proper government registries before placing the equipment into colocation. That way, if a bailiff should descend on the data centre, colo, reseller, etc. the equiipment is fully protected from seizure.

    BTW, was Company Z sleeping for six months? Who in their right mind would let that kind of receivable slide?
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  15. #15
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    Get what boxes you can online and get your backups off the existing servers. I would be shocked if this ended quickly.

    I really think your best bet is to restablish yourself somewhere else and advise all your clients that there is an issue you are taking proactive steps to dealing with it. At any time now (likey tomorrow morning) someone from companyZ management may make the decision to take all of companyA's equipment offline to save power and bandwith charges. To them their contract states that all the equipment is companyA's and therefore they have every right to do so.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by plumsauce
    If push comes to shove, try searching for the definition of "theft by conversion". Because "theft" is also "depriving the rightful owner the use of property".
    So a company is required to provide service, access, etc. to a company with which they do not have a contract? It is definitely understandable they couldn't seize the systems, etc. but I see no reason any company should be forced to allow someone on their property with which they have no contract/agreement. What about possible liability issues, authorized/unauthorized access restrictions, etc.?

    If anything, you may need a court order for law enforcement officials, etc. to collect the equipment.

    Just another reason to not go with resellers, and yes, there are ways to know about who is a reseller and who isn't, though here, as in many cases, there is no telling who is or isn't going to pay their landlord unless there is company history.
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  17. #17
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    I doubt CompanyZ is required to provide a service, but they are not allowed (if you have proved the equipment is yours) to hold it hostage. What will probably happen if you did get legal with them is to unplug your equipment, box it up by the front door and tell you to collect it

    Proving the equipment is your may be more difficult than you think though, i don't think anywhere would hand out equipment because you have a few printouts from whereever you purchased the servers from (otherwise I could become very rich from selling servers on ebay )
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  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by gbjbaanb
    I doubt CompanyZ is required to provide a service, but they are not allowed (if you have proved the equipment is yours) to hold it hostage. What will probably happen if you did get legal with them is to unplug your equipment, box it up by the front door and tell you to collect it

    Proving the equipment is your may be more difficult than you think though, i don't think anywhere would hand out equipment because you have a few printouts from whereever you purchased the servers from (otherwise I could become very rich from selling servers on ebay )
    After a formal letter today to Company Z they have again refused us access or to talk to us because we dont have a written agreement with us (expected). They also made it clear that they can suspend the account (ie disable power and bandwidth) but say they are not due to fragile situation (is this them being nice and caring about the little man or the fact if they do the customers in the rack can then go through legal procedings for damages to business.. ie because they are refusing us access to remove the hardware and then cutting the power, connection).

    There advise is to speak to Company A which is great considering they wont diagnoise there is a problem with access etc i.e. if I request it and then drive down to London (with a weeks notice or not) I wont find out that I dont have it until im standing at IP House gates. There other excuse is just saying its Company Z's fault and then lie about ringing them.

    -Chris

  19. #19
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    >Company Z they have again refused us access or to talk to us because we dont have a written agreement with us

    yes, as expected, and (sadly for your case) the right decision.

    >also made it clear that they can suspend the account
    >(ie disable power and bandwidth)

    i think all suite holders in datacentres have that as an option, otherwise its just costing money they know they'll never get back.

    >but say they are not due to fragile situation
    >(is this them being nice and caring about the little man or the fact if they do
    >the customers in the rack can then go through legal procedings for
    >damages to business

    you'd have a *very* hard time proving damage to business, they're under no duty of care to look after your kit, as you're not a client of theirs, and Co A having defaulted similarly will not be a client. *normally* its payment for service, non payment is grounds for immediate cessation of services.

    i've watched datacentres cut power to whole suites when companies dont pay the bills, and yes its harsh on the "little man" who's paid a reseller of a reseller of a reseller of a reseller 5 for their 1u colo.

    >There advise is to speak to Company A which is great considering they wont
    > diagnoise there is a problem with access etc i.e.
    >if I request it and then drive down to London

    dont drive down until its confirmed in writing by co-A because then you at least can claim for expenses etc.

    Sadly, you're stuck, and telling you to pick your suppliers more carefully is *not* really going to help you, moving to BlueSquare isnt going to be a "fix" for you, as its not a datacentre problem.
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by KarlZimmer
    So a company is required to provide service, access, etc. to a company with which they do not have a contract? It is definitely understandable they couldn't seize the systems, etc. but I see no reason any company should be forced to allow someone on their property with which they have no contract/agreement. What about possible liability issues, authorized/unauthorized access restrictions, etc.?

    If anything, you may need a court order for law enforcement officials, etc. to collect the equipment.

    Just another reason to not go with resellers, and yes, there are ways to know about who is a reseller and who isn't, though here, as in many cases, there is no telling who is or isn't going to pay their landlord unless there is company history.
    No, it's a reason to research the financial solvency of your reseller.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by gbjbaanb
    I doubt CompanyZ is required to provide a service, but they are not allowed (if you have proved the equipment is yours) to hold it hostage.
    Yes and No. They cannot hold a lien over the equipment and take it as their own to be sold against unpaid debts, *if* you can prove that its yours and not Company-A's
    with invoices, serial numbers, etc.

    They can charge you a "reasonable" fee for storage and deracking etc, and they dont have to let you into the building to do it yourself, depending on their H&S setup.

    However most business in that situation would do it for a nominal payment to cover the staff agro and time, or even for free.
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  22. #22
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    I feel the need to jump in straight away here - Chris I think you need to get your facts straight before spouting your **** on a forum.

    Company A is us - IKCS
    Company Z is Hi-Velocity

    We origionaly signed contracts with hi-velocity to provide us with 3 racks.. these never turned up. Eventually they emptied half of one and told us we could 'use that' to put clients in, so we moved in the said client. After months and months of us asking them to remove the rest of the kit from the rack so we could actually move clients in - They still have not and have also sent out invoices (only recently i might add) for a complete rack.. why should we pay for a full rack when its half full of their clients.. this has been disputed by many times and ignored.

    As for the other racks.. on the day we were due to move our kit and told the racks would be there, they mysteriously dissapeared and we were forced to make alternative arrangements for kit - Luckily rob from othellotech was around to offer us rackspace.

    Access - ****ed up by them on several occasions - Not by us - We were told we'd recieve months free - still been invoiced for it.

    Transit - Time and time again we've talked to them about sorting it out, ignored.

    Remote hands - Lied to about reboots being completed and the status of machines.. again offered free service still been invoiced for it

    So there ARE two sides to every story, and we're currently seeking legal advice It may very well be that we have to pay it to get your kit removed and retrieve it back at a later date. I'm only sorry I did not spot this thread earlier.

    As for you chris, Yes the situation does suck - But why don't you pick up the phone instead of spouting some half assed truth on a forum.

  23. #23
    Lawrence,

    I am not going to arguee with you on here. We have quite a few emails, phone calls etc that have been left unanswered which have explained and requested that legal action will be taken if we dont get our stuff.

    Why am I being punished for your situation? These are your problems and you are our provider.. I have spoken to Hi-V many times over the last 2 weeks (2 weeks on friday) and they have said numrous times that they havent heard from you, while you mention why dont you pick up the phone.. we have tried that one many a time.. remember when you say ill ring them in a minute and ill get back to you within 10.. except I never get phone call. Every hour I ring back to get an update only to get the same reply?

    Lawrence, everything I have posted in my version/side is the 100% truth and is what I have been told by speaking to Hi-V and yourself. Why would I make it up? Ive paid all of my bills. That still makes me laugh.. pick up a phone.. You know full well I have attempted to ring your mobile so many times in the last week it is rediculous. Now if we going to make petty lies, do I need to post my PDA phone log? Come on Lawrence be professional about this and just pay your bill, dont start to say aload of rubbish.

    -Chris

  24. #24
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    I did not say you should be punished for this at all.. i was merely stating a few miss truths in your statement.

    now.. You've only paid for a bit of this month and not gone through our 30 day cancellation period.. if i wanted to be harsh i would force you into it. im merely trying to resolve the situation without leaving us paying for something we never actually recieved. If hi-v had communicated in the first place and said we could pay for 1/2 the rack that wouldnt have been an issue! Unfortunatly invoices only started arriving after access was requested - leaving us no time to dispute the issue.

    thats all im going to say on this matter ive posted our side of the story - call the office tomorrow chris.

  25. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by lgeib
    I did not say you should be punished for this at all.. i was merely stating a few miss truths in your statement.
    Well unfortuantly its not a matter if we should or shouldnt, we are being punished.. being punished for your mistake/problems. Why not pay the bill (just like have paid ours) let us get out and move to hopefully another company where we wont have the same issues? How hard can it be? Well unfortuantly Lawrence ive only been given that section of the story today. Wouldnt you think any other host would explain the situation well before it had to come to forum posts etc to get attention, other than the client having to do the leg work and find out the basics? Oh dont say we havent emailed you for information, contacted you etc as that would be aload of rubbish. Wasnt the week notice we gave to request access enough to sort out some invoices?

    Concerning the 30 day cancellation period, thats very nice of you but I wouldnt mind see the terms and contract we agreed too. As of yet I havent seen a single T&C, contract agreed to or heck even seeing any form of T&C/contract ever! I am also quite surpised how you didnt mention this when we cancelled a week before we requested access or could it be the fact that we where disappointed with the problem after problem we had which we had been complaining about for a few months with no result or compensation?

    Unfortuantly lawrence (if anyone feels im being pathetic here please say) but your problems with Hi-V isnt my fault or problem. We pay you, we found you as a provider, you have our gear.. Not Hi-V so unfortuantly the problems you with them cannot be passed off to us as an excuse. Phone call @ 9.00 coming your way.. hopefully youll have some good news for us that youve sorted the problem out and that i can get my gear and run.

    -Chris

  26. #26
    Proving the equipment is your may be more difficult than you think
    In some jurisdictions, the best protection for colocated equipment is to register cautions or liens on the equipment with the proper government registries before placing the equipment into colocation. That way, if a bailiff should descend on the data centre, colo, reseller, etc. the equiipment is fully protected from seizure.
    Those who do not have experience at filing these documents might be surprised at how little documentation is needed. In my jurisdiction, if you have an account, you can do the filing electronically.


    So a company is required to provide service, access, etc. to a company with which they do not have a contract? It is definitely understandable they couldn't seize the systems, etc. but I see no reason any company should be forced to allow someone on their property with which they have no contract/agreement. What about possible liability issues, authorized/unauthorized access restrictions, etc.?
    1) the OP only wants to get his hardware out, who said anything about providing services?

    2) the OP only wants to get his hardware out, who said anything about allowing anyone on their property?

    3) try telling a bailiff that there is going to be a service charge for them to access equipment which they have been duly authorised to repossess by the lien holder, aka the OP. they'll be back with a cop.
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  27. #27
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    1,584
    Plumsause

    You are so wrong....regarding filing documents not to mention the legal costs will probably cost you $20,000.
    Last edited by music; 12-12-2006 at 10:07 PM.

  28. #28
    Surprise Surprise (Not im not cila black)

    Have attempted to ring your mobile and office number to get no where.. you didnt even pick up so I thought I would leave a message on your answer phone.. Oh wait your mail box is full.. has been for the last 4 months..

    Why dont you get in contact with me then? Ive tried again and get no where.. Im sure you have my number, if not feel free to go to my company website and grab either of the numbers as im sure either myself and Paul would love to speak to you!

    -Chris

  29. #29
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    London
    Posts
    4,856
    Any chance of 'breaking' in with a ladder?

    <duck>
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  30. #30
    Heh been very much considering it.. but that ladder problem is only applicable to the old poundhost datacentre if I remember from a couple of years back.

    Got a small update for you, Hi-V are now going to be cutting the power and bandwidth according to a nice email we had today. Great news eh and as per normal lawrence is un-contactable.

    -Chris

  31. #31
    Join Date
    Aug 2000
    Location
    Sheffield, South Yorks
    Posts
    3,480
    Quote Originally Posted by TheGreat1
    We pay you, we found you as a provider, you have our gear.. Not Hi-V
    Actually, it is Hi-V who have your gear, it is on their "property" so to speak, and if they are denying IKCS access, then there is little they can do about it. To be honest, if what Lawrence says is true, then I'd be wary of paying Hi-V as well, as it can take many many months to recover money through the courts - which could be a very substantial amount of money to have "disappear" from the business, especially when legal costs are added in as well.

    I'm not saying what IKCS are doing is right, or what Hi-V are doing is right, but as they say, there's more than one side to a story (3 in this case) and you rarely get the absolute 100% truth from each side.

    The one thing I do find odd, is that you're willing to take what Hi-V say as 100% truth, but not IKCS, most odd.
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  32. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by KDAWebServices
    The one thing I do find odd, is that you're willing to take what Hi-V say as 100% truth, but not IKCS, most odd.
    Before we even spoke to Hi-V, my trust in him as a provider was shattered over many months of rubbish. You cant say you have never lost trust in someone after so many months of lies?

  33. #33
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    North Kansas City, MO
    Posts
    2,565
    Quote Originally Posted by TheGreat1
    Hi Larry,

    From my knowledge of law, they have no legal right to withhold our hardware. The issue is between Company A and not us. If they did try and withhold them then surely it is stealing and blackmail if they wish for us to pay to get our hardware back. If they do try and take hold of our servers and may even sell them on to make money then they will have to go to court and get debt collector.

    There is not a chance they can charge us for another companies debt surley.

    -Chris
    It's very unfortunate that you're in this position but be careful before you assume things about the law. You really need to contact a lawyer in your country to sort this all out.

    Let me try to educate you from the other side. We own a couple DC's and run into issues like this every once in awhile. Company "Z" has bought a full rack or multiple racks from us and then resold some of the space to "Company A". A pays Z every month but Z never pays us. We turn off all service to Z and A comes screaming.

    As the DC, our relationship is with Company Z. Not A. We have no obligation to A. As a matter of fact, and this will tick you off, we are well within our rights to demand full payment for all of Z's space before releasing any of A's equipment.

    It's like if you rent an appartment with another person and you pay them your share of the rent every month but the other person never pays your landlord. The landlord can evict you and if you want to stay you'll need to pay all the back rent, not just your share. Even though you've already paid your share.

    When I say be careful, I say it because if you push to much what can happen is the DC decides thay can't get thier money from Z so they sue you for it. Then it becomes you who's yelling about "no relationship". The DC can still maintain that you "lived there" and are responsible for Z's full balance.

    Your best move is to get a lawyer and see if you can settle with the DC for the release of your equipment (be prepared to prove it's yours) for the rates they would have charged you for the service you had with Z.

    in the future, deal with the DC directly. Much safer even if it costs a little more.

    Good luck.
    Aaron Wendel
    Wholesale Internet, Inc. - http://www.wholesaleinternet.net
    Kansas City Internet eXchange - http://www.kcix.net

  34. #34
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    121
    Quote Originally Posted by TheGreat1
    Before we even spoke to Hi-V, my trust in him as a provider was shattered over many months of rubbish. You cant say you have never lost trust in someone after so many months of lies?
    If you say so - The lies were based on what hi-v were telling me.

    If they cut power to the rack - They'll be in trouble.. We've had no such communication - I would love to know why im uncontactable - We've had people phone us all day.

  35. #35
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Southwest UK
    Posts
    1,159
    All we need now is a Hi-Velocity representative to post with his side of the story
    Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good.

  36. #36
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    121
    I wouldn't mind an explination as to how they want us to pay for 1/2 a rack full of their clients - As I keep getting fobbed off with 'Yes but we'll move them'.

  37. #37
    Hi Lawrence,

    Stop trying to pass Hi-V as your excuse. Take responsiblity for your mistakes and stop trying to pass them off as someones elses issues.

    I would love to know why im uncontactable - We've had people phone us all day.
    Myself and my partner who are in different ends of UK have tried and failed.. Both have tried landlines, o2 and orange mobile phone networks.. all with the same result so I can expect there must be a huge UK problem with contacting just the offices of IKCS and your personal mobile So as apprently I am having issues ringing you, I can expect a phone call from you any minute then?

    As your my provider, maybe you could ring Hi-V and give me an update on the situation as I think the fact they have emailed us directly to say that they will be suspending the rack power and bandwidth that after 2 weeks its got quite urgent.

    Is that not a fair assessment?

    -Chris

  38. #38
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    London, England
    Posts
    334
    Quote Originally Posted by WII-Aaron
    in the future, deal with the DC directly. Much safer even if it costs a little more.
    Wise words. Doesn't stop you getting screwed but lowers the chances.
    Mark Castle
    Secura Hosting Ltd
    www.capitalethernet.co.uk
    My views are my own and not those of my company.

  39. #39
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    121
    Chris,
    That is total **** - Neither of you have phoned either my mobile or the office phone. I've spoken to people posting on this thread today on the phone so id love to know how your magicaly not able to contact me.

    Hi-V have a letter on route to them currently, which will resolve the situation. I told you to call the office, im not discussing this further on a forum - you have our contact details. feel free to slag us off, make stuff up, believe what you want

    I'd just like to add - This has happened with hi-v before and two other providers that i know of, as they've contacted me today also.. so I wouldn't believe everything your told.

  40. #40
    Lawrence,

    Unfortunately I cannot get through nor can my partner... not to get defensive but are you calling me a liar? You have my mobile number so give me a ring as requested above.. I await your call.

    No offense but they have a letter on route? is this the same promise as you were going to ring them and then ring me back.. can I ask why this has taken 2 weeks to send a letter? Lawrence we have emailed you multiple times which never got responded too and have rang you numerous times without anyone picking up. This is the only way you’ll respond to our issue that your withholding access..

    Know what the funny thing is, you have another few topics of this forum associated to your company and yet you respond in the same way to them that we all lie and make stuff up.. Just an observation which was mentioned to me.. we must all be the same person…?!

    -Chris

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