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  1. #1
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    VPS resources : Are all VPSs born equal?

    .

    performance-wise, most vps packages seem to be classified today on the basis of guaranteed RAM and CPU share.

    the question arises, however, if a vps classified, say, at 768MB guaranteed RAM by a particular provider comes with the same memory and cpu resources as a 768MB RAM vps offered by an alternative provider. the (naive) assumption is that both are expected to be equal.

    well, seems "it ain't necessarily so". I have personal experience of that.

    virtuozzo provides a few clues about what your crafty little vps host has been up to. but you need to have personal experience with more than a single host to be able to compare plans / resources that are otherwise supposed to be equal.

    in the primary resources section of virtuozzo titbits are available like:

    - cpuunits
    - cpulimit
    - numproc
    - numtcpsock
    - numothersock
    - vmguarpages
    - avnumproc

    currently these details are revealed to you only after your setup is ready and you have access to your vps / virtuozzo.

    I will provide here the "hard limits" of these parameters as specified in one of the vps accounts I run:

    - 768MB RAM

    - cpuunits : 7,877 pcs
    - cpulimit : 50 percents
    - numproc : 750 pcs
    - numtcpsock : 720 pcs
    - numothersock : 1,024 pcs
    - vmguarpages : 2,147,483,647 4KB pages
    - avnumproc : 500 pcs


    what does your virtuozzo reveal?
    please publish here your own data so that we may derive useful conclusions.

    ulysseNL


    .

  2. #2
    Join Date
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    Hi!
    If you'll look in the back threads..we have been discussing this for a very long time.
    I think it's interesting you mention CPU share. I'm curious..since when do hosts even reveal this? Most of the time...they do not. In fact..many will not commit to a maximum number of vps per node..not that it would matter, really. They typically vary in size...so a hard set number is really hard.

    There is a hard set rule: Those who oversell actual RAM are asking for trouble.

    Openvz vps's have beancounters as well. There is no "perfect" setup...that would be perfect for everybody and/or everything. Sadly..there are even hosts who have no clue how to properly setup VPS's..I won't mention any well-known names..of course (Cough..Godaddy) who starve the kernel of memory...and do not care.

    Basically...a properly setup vps will have 15-20% of RAM given to the kernel:

    let's say a 256MB RAM VPS with 768 MB burst.
    Ok...

    256*256= 65536 vmguarpages
    256*768= 196608 privvmpages

    Ok..15% to the kernel=~38MB

    1024*1024*38=39845888 kmemsize

    From here...it's completely up to the host....settings vary greatly. Once the wall is hit by a user...a host may or may not bump the allocation..or just tell them they need to upgrade to the next level package.

    That will get you started.

    Bryon
    Bryon L Harvey
    Soil Relocation Engineer

  3. #3
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    .

    hi bryon,

    thanks - but I have not seen a thread where people have published their actual set of settings, as above, so that comparisons may be made between real vps accounts and real hosts.

    for me the publication and comparison of actual data is important - it may reveal good practices and not-so-good practices, and possibly validate the reputation for performance some vps hosts have and explain why some others are doing so poorly in comparison.

    in the meantime, do you remember when, more or less, the discussion on specifications you mention took place? I would like to find these posts, they should be good reading.


    ulysse1234

    .

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
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    England, UK
    Posts
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    Smile

    Hi,

    Here are the details from my trial vps account with eurovps. Its plesk, RHE4.

    Although I am actually after just a 384MB Gteed, 768MB burst.

    512MB Gteed / Burst 1024MB RAM

    - cpuunits : 3,000 pcs
    - cpulimit : 100 percents
    - numproc : 960 pcs
    - numtcpsock : 720 pcs
    - numothersock : 360 pcs
    - vmguarpages : 2,147,483,647 4KB pages
    - avnumproc : 40 pcs


    Hope the above figures mean something.

    Regards,

    Av

  5. #5
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    Guaranteed RAM = vmguarpages.b(arrier) / 1024 / 4 = vmguarpages.b(barrier) / 256
    Burstable RAM = privvmpages.b(arrier) / 1024 / 4 = privvmpages.b(arrier) / 256

    So you should post:
    Cpuunits - 50 units = 1Mhz (It can be the 'guaranteed' cpu if the entire HN cpu is in use)
    Cpulimit - % of CPU you can use (100% - 1 core, 200% - 2 cores,...)
    Numtcpsock.b - Number of tcp connections
    VMguarpages.b - Guaranteed ram (usually in 4k pages)
    Privvmpages.b - Burstable ram (usually in 4k pages)
    Kmemsize.b .l - Total ammount of kernel memory available for processes


  6. #6
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    Butler,TN
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    Hi!
    Sure..just do a search in this forum under my nick..they'll come right up.

    There are many, many threads with people posting their cat proc/user_beancounters.

    However...a complete picture it does not give. For example..CPUunits.

    Thanks to two test drives from caro.net...I have had a total of 5 servers in the last few weeks. Now...here's how they spec out:

    1 pent 4 2.8 141033 CPUunits
    2 PentD Dual 300749 CPUunits
    3 Woodcrest 641685 CPUunits
    4 PentD Dual 346896 CPUunits <only 64Bit Centos
    5 Dual Opt 275 442658 CPUunits

    It is intersting to see a reasonable boost in performance with the 64 Bit OS but at a cost...only two reasonable distros are available for it..Centos 4 and Debian 3.1

    Now...what is never shown here is exactly what one of the vps config files look like....I can oblige:

    ONBOOT="yes"

    # UBC parameters (in form of barrier:limit)
    # Primary parameters
    AVNUMPROC="40:40"
    NUMPROC="300:400"
    NUMTCPSOCK="80:80"
    NUMOTHERSOCK="80:80"
    VMGUARPAGES="6144:2147483647"
    # Secondary parameters
    KMEMSIZE="52428800:54428800"
    TCPSNDBUF="319488:524288"
    TCPRCVBUF="319488:524288"
    OTHERSOCKBUF="132096:336896"
    DGRAMRCVBUF="132096:132096"
    OOMGUARPAGES="6144:2147483647"
    # Auxiliary parameters
    LOCKEDPAGES="32:32"
    SHMPAGES="8192:8192"
    PRIVVMPAGES="140000:160000"
    NUMFILE="2048:2048"
    NUMFLOCK="100:110"
    NUMPTY="16:16"
    NUMSIGINFO="256:256"
    DCACHESIZE="1048576:1097728"

    PHYSPAGES="0:2147483647"
    NUMIPTENT="128:128"

    # Disk quota parameters (in form of softlimit:hardlimit)
    DISKSPACE="3000000:4000000"
    DISKINODES="200000:220000"
    QUOTATIME="0"

    # CPU fair sheduler parameter
    CPUUNITS="5000"
    VE_ROOT="/vz/root/$VEID"
    VE_PRIVATE="/vz/private/$VEID"
    OSTEMPLATE="centos-4-i386-default"
    ORIGIN_SAMPLE="vps.basic"
    HOSTNAME="vps395.blah.com"
    IP_ADDRESS="x.x.x.x"
    NAMESERVER="x.x.x.x"

    That's the config file for a openvz vps...virtuozzo are very close..if not the same.

    I have not tweaked the files much..this is basically the file vps.basic that came with openvz...that seemed like a good place to start.

    I honestly don't think it would be of much use to publish these numbers..or the beancounter numbers...because many other things come into play as well when comparing a vps host....like peering..connection speed...customer service and support.

    Most people could care less about these numbers...they only care about one thing: Does it work?

    Anyways...as I said...there are plenty of them here. Enjoy!

    Bryon
    Bryon L Harvey
    Soil Relocation Engineer

  7. #7
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by sspt
    Cpuunits - 50 units = 1Mhz (It can be the 'guaranteed' cpu if the entire HN cpu is in use)
    This is very, very, very incorrect. cpuunits are proportional to the total amount allocated on the system. If every VPS is given 1 CPU unit and there is 10 VPS's on a 3000Mhz system then each VPS is guaranteed 300Mhz.

    And as for the purpose of the thread, UBC only effects OpenVZ and older Virtuozzo systems. Under SLM the memory barriers/limits posted are all 9223372036854775807 on a 64-bit system.
    Matt Ayres - togglebox.com
    Linux and Windows Cloud Virtual Datacenters powered by Onapp / Xen
    Instant Setup, Instant Scalability, Full Lifecycle Hosting Solutions

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  8. #8
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    Sep 2005
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    .

    hi av,

    thanks for your contrivution - interesting to see numproc : 960 pcs for a 512MB account. from my experience this memory parameter can mean a great lot in the performance of a vps - my own 768MB (guaranteed) account allows for only 750 pcs, something that results in frequent QoS alerts (albeit not to an alarming point). hope somebody more knowledgeable than me would like to comment on this.

    in the meantime I publish settings of another account I run:

    512MB RAM (guaranteed)

    - cpuunits : 8,000 pcs
    - cpulimit : 100 percents
    - numproc : 500 pcs
    - numtcpsock : 500 pcs
    - numothersock : 500 pcs
    - vmguarpages : 2,147,483,647 4KB pages
    - avnumproc : 350 pcs

    both my accounts are from the same provider. my comments will come later.
    I think this will get rather interesting as more people contribute data.


    ulysseNL


    .



  9. #9
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    48
    .

    hi bryon,

    thanks for the tip on past posts - shall have a look as I am very interested.
    thanks also for the server details.

    here I have provided a set of my primary vps resources only, the main purpose being to compare what basic resources a host allows you to utilize, and possibly to validate the substance of their offerings. for example, what use is 768MB of guaranteed RAM when allowed numproc is 750 pcs? av has posted numproc : 960 pcs for a 512MB account, which sounds potent to me. is it so?


    ulysseNL


    .



  10. #10
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Butler,TN
    Posts
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    Hi!
    Numproc has nothing to do with RAM..that's something altogether different.
    Numproc is simply the number of processes or threads allowed to be running at one time.

    I have seen numproc just double the RAM..64MB=128 numproc. Seems about right...I guess. One should note that according to vzsplit (the honest version-it knows how much swap is present) it considers 8000 total system-wide for the smallest ded I have...the P4 2.8Ghz.

    Bryon
    Bryon L Harvey
    Soil Relocation Engineer

  11. #11
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    Sep 2005
    Posts
    48
    .

    bryon,

    numproc is simply the number of processes or threads allowed to be running at one time.
    this is exactly what puzzles me - what is the use of having cpu and memory available when you are restricted in using them? maybe this is a sign of overselling? av has posted for a 512MG account almost double numproc compared to my 512MG account (960 to 500). is this kind of choke?
    on the other hand his account provides cpuunits : 3,000 pcs and mine cpuunits : 8,000 pcs !

    go find . . . .

    ulysseNL

    .
    Last edited by ulysseNL; 12-02-2006 at 05:50 PM.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
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    Butler,TN
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    Hi!
    I warned ye! As I have said many times before...I honestly don't think some hosts even begin to understand the allocation numbers..much less have any desire to provide a "equal" share of anything to anybody. Oh..get this..according to vzsplit..the Woodcrest has max 8,000 numprocs as well. I have come to believe vzsplit is about useless...and the best bet is for a host to do is go ahead and setup..as I have..various configs and tweak them...and then go from there.

    Another alternative is to tweak as needed for each customer's needs.

    We'll see.

    >>Here's a bit more for your dining pleasure:

    NUMPROC="4000:4000"
    AVNUMPROC="1091:1091"
    NUMTCPSOCK="4000:4000"
    NUMOTHERSOCK="4000:4000"
    VMGUARPAGES="307899:2147483647"

    # Secondary parameters
    KMEMSIZE="89403392:98343731"
    TCPSNDBUF="13417130:29801130"
    TCPRCVBUF="13417130:29801130"
    OTHERSOCKBUF="6708565:23092565"
    DGRAMRCVBUF="6708565:6708565"
    OOMGUARPAGES="307899:2147483647"
    PRIVVMPAGES="307899:338688"

    # Auxiliary parameters
    LOCKEDPAGES="4365:4365"
    SHMPAGES="30789:30789"
    PHYSPAGES="0:2147483647"
    NUMFILE="34912:34912"
    NUMFLOCK="1000:1100"
    NUMPTY="400:400"
    NUMSIGINFO="1024:1024"
    DCACHESIZE="19523603:20109312"
    NUMIPTENT="200:200"
    DISKSPACE="13061187:14367306"
    DISKINODES="6918130:7609944"
    CPUUNITS="146241"


    This is the new dual opt 275-split 2 ways..and..here's the 64bit Centos Pent D:

    NUMPROC="5126:5126"
    AVNUMPROC="2563:2563"
    NUMTCPSOCK="5126:5126"
    NUMOTHERSOCK="5126:5126"
    VMGUARPAGES="307661:9223372036854775807"

    # Secondary parameters
    KMEMSIZE="210030182:231033200"
    TCPSNDBUF="49013964:70010060"
    TCPRCVBUF="49013964:70010060"
    OTHERSOCKBUF="24506982:45503078"
    DGRAMRCVBUF="24506982:24506982"
    OOMGUARPAGES="307661:9223372036854775807"
    PRIVVMPAGES="307661:338427"

    # Auxiliary parameters
    LOCKEDPAGES="10255:10255"
    SHMPAGES="30766:30766"
    PHYSPAGES="0:9223372036854775807"
    NUMFILE="82016:82016"
    NUMFLOCK="1000:1100"
    NUMPTY="512:512"
    NUMSIGINFO="1024:1024"
    DCACHESIZE="45865258:47241216"
    NUMIPTENT="200:200"
    DISKSPACE="12586373:13845011"
    DISKINODES="6676094:7343704"
    CPUUNITS="113100"

    Interesting..well..we lost that 8,000 numproc ceiling on that one!

    Bryon
    Last edited by bryonhost1; 12-02-2006 at 06:21 PM.
    Bryon L Harvey
    Soil Relocation Engineer

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
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    48
    .

    bryon, agreed.

    and here even more puzzling:
    my 768MB RAM account is allowed numproc : 750 pcs - while the 512MB account av reports is allowed numproc : 960 pcs !

    such comparisons I need somebody to interpret for us, as many of us cannot comprehend such disparities and their significance. the main concern is that one does not actually get what one thinks is paying for, and the performance one needs to do the job properly, i.e. fast enough for the visitors and buyers of one's sites.

    you attribute a lot to hosts' possible technical incompetence - but are they innocent of trickery?


    ulysseNL


    .
    Last edited by ulysseNL; 12-02-2006 at 06:20 PM.

  14. #14
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    Hi!
    Ha! Hosts? Innocent? hardly. In fact..I'd say a large number of them oversell..and they know exactly what they are doing...and do not care.

    As I tell many people..sign up for those really good first month deals. Make sure and *Never* pay for more than a month at a time..for this very reason. Keep notes..make benchmarks. For example...The fastest download I have ever had with any server was from Sun. I download the same file to a new server..almost first thing..just to see...to have a baseline. Ok..it took me x this time...x last time...etc...etc.

    There is so much to learn that can only really be learned from experience. Ah!
    Just thought of something...your numproc question...check on this:

    http://wiki.openvz.org/UBC_configuration_examples_table

    There you go..512MB RAM w/ 800 numproc

    Now..please don't go to the host and start demanding things..best thing to do is to point them to this thread...and ask them to increase your allotment.

    However...in all honestly...if you have had no failcnts yet...I wouldn't even ask at this point. Do what you need to do with your VPS...and see if this level still works for you. Then...if it doesn't..and you start to failcnt...then ask.

    Bryon
    Bryon L Harvey
    Soil Relocation Engineer

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    48
    .

    bryon,

    many thanks for the excellent link : if the table there is a valid expert configuration suggestion (which I assume it to be), it is a very good guideline in evaluating what your host is really up to.

    I remember I had to upgrade to a higher memory account to deal with my server activity, while the reason for my problem was apparently low numproc and other primary resources allowed. low for the corresponding account. of course I got more resources with the higher account and this solved the issue. still, seems my problem was not low memory - but not enough resources allowed corresponding to the level of the account. indeed if this table is anything to go about, I got a mere 1/2 of the resources suggested for the corresponding guaranteed RAM !!

    hope that more people will publish their actual set of server resources (in the form of the initial set above for easy comparisons) so that we may be further enlightened on what is going on with our hosts, and our own money.


    ulysseNL


    .
    Last edited by ulysseNL; 12-03-2006 at 05:00 AM.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
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    Butler,TN
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    Hi!
    Well..I would just wait and see. I have never been told by another host that those numbers are not usable in production...but I'm not so sure we'll get an answer.

    This is ground many hosts would rather not see traveled.

    We'll see.

    Bryon
    Bryon L Harvey
    Soil Relocation Engineer

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by ulysseNL
    - cpuunits
    - cpulimit
    - numproc
    - numtcpsock
    - numothersock
    - vmguarpages
    - avnumproc
    Hi ulysseNL and others,

    I would like to read if possible those entries of my hosting provider.
    I tried cat /proc/user_beancounter but there are no those entries.
    My provider is running virtuozzo.

    Am I able somehow to read those entries? How?
    Last edited by adamovic; 12-04-2006 at 12:26 PM.

  18. #18
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    Hi!
    The "/" may be the problem!

    cat proc/user_beancounters

    Also..you need to be all the way in "/"..so cd .. out of /root directory (most people start there after login)

    type: cd ..
    then: cat proc/user_beancounters

    Some people have reported problems...so..if that doesn't work..simply go to the file by:

    cd proc
    ls

    then:
    cat whateverfileiscalled

    some use pico, vi or nano as well.

    It's virtuozzo...the file is there. I think some hosts are doing kernel mods to make it harder to do this...maybe.

    Bryon
    Bryon L Harvey
    Soil Relocation Engineer

  19. #19
    Join Date
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    Canada!
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    He might just have been doing what I keep doing as well.

    It's cat /proc/user_beancounters

    I've typed in things like proce, countbeans so you might have typo'd as well.

  20. #20
    I cannot find memory and processor entries in /proc/user_beancounters at HostEurope.de VPS.

    This is the content :
    PHP Code:
    Version2.5
           uid  resource           held    maxheld    barrier      limit    failcnt
      11604201
    kmemsize        2252140    2270737   33556806   36875611          0
                lockedpages           0          0       1377       1377          0
                privvmpages       62697      62797     279000     300000          9
                shmpages            640        640      50000      50000          0
                dummy                 0          0          0          0          0
                numproc              58         58        688        688          0
                physpages         27790      27794          0 2147483647          0
                vmguarpages           0          0     131072 2147483647          0
                oomguarpages      27790      27794     131072 2147483647          0
                numtcpsock           14         15        688        688          0
                numflock              3          3       1000       1100          0
                numpty                1          1         68         68          0
                numsiginfo            0          0       1024       1024          0
                tcpsndbuf          4456       5148    6584420    9402468          0
                tcprcvbuf           692       1384    6584420    9402468          0
                othersockbuf      13368      13368    3292210    6110258          0
                dgramrcvbuf           0          0    3292210    3292210          0
                numothersock         12         12        688        688          0
                dcachesize       273798     277816    6155930    6340608          0
                numfile             578        579      11008      11008          0
                dummy                 0          0          0          0          0
                dummy                 0          0          0          0          0
                dummy                 0          0          0          0          0
                numiptent            14         14 2147483647 2147483647          0 
    Any ideas?

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
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    .

    for virtuozzo go to your browser and enter your server name followed by ":4643

    - example: http://server1.yourdomain.net:4643
    - log in
    - resources > extended > CPU Parameters and Primary UBC Parameters

    hope you can give us a set of parameters for comparison purposes.

    ulysseNL

    .

  22. #22
    OK, I found it. Thanks.

    So, this is info for HostEurope.de.
    Their VPS Linux XL 2.0 plan (512MB RAM).

    cpuunits hard limit 17,467
    cpulimit 100
    numproc 688
    numtcpsock 688
    numothersock 688
    vmguarpages soft limit : 131,072 , hard limit : 2,147,483,647 4KB pages
    avnumproc 344 pcs
    ----

    So If 50 pcs=1MHz, they guarantee approx. 350MHz.
    Last edited by adamovic; 12-04-2006 at 01:34 PM.

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
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    .


    overall, your resources are far better than what I get with my host PowerVPS.
    you should be happy.

    I believe every host review must include this data, otherwise it makes no sense.
    I plan to re-visit my favourable review of PowerVPS after I collect more data on resource allowances at various hosts.



    ulysseNL


    .

  24. #24
    hosteurope.de isn't ideal - please see my reviews in this forum.
    Now they put me on new decent server after my complaints.

  25. #25
    Join Date
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    Butler,TN
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    Hi!

    Memory is there:
    RAM=VMGUARPAGES
    BURST=PRIVVMPAGES

    RAM=131072 /256= 512MB
    BURST= 279000 300000 = ~1089MB: ~1172MB

    Now..kmem=33556806 36875611 = 32MB: ~35MB <bad

    Kernel memory needs to be at least 10%..openvz recommends 15-17%..and I've seen as high as 20% of RAM devoted to the kernel.

    Bryon
    Bryon L Harvey
    Soil Relocation Engineer

  26. #26

    * MyHosting

    I've been having a lot of trouble with my VPS at MyHosting recently. They've been pretty good for two years, but I think the problem is due to their limit of numproc=60.

    Is this numproc limit common? It seems freakishly low to me.

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