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  1. #1

    Bay area data center reccomendations?

    Hello,

    I have a prototype HTTP service running out of my office in Redwood City over a DSL line. I have 26 dual-core dual-processor Opteron 270 servers with 8 gigs of ram and 4x 320gig SATA drives each. Each of the server's is in a 4U antec rackmount case with 550w PS and 20" sliding rails. Two of the server's are running direct-server-return round-robbing TCP/IP load balancers with VRRP. The remaining server's are a mix of front-end webservers, database servers, and fileservers.

    I have 5x 8-outlet APC remote power switches setup -- ~5 servers on each APC switch.

    All of the server's are running gigabit ethernet over cat6 to a central stackable gigabit aggregation switch. The aggregation switch has two unused 10gbit ports. The uplink to the router will be feeding directly into the aggregation switch.

    My electricity bill last month was $1,400 -- and I wasn't even running the entire cluster 24/7. It looks like I will be adding 4 new servers to the cluster each month.

    I'm just about ready to launch the website, so I think it's time to move into a datacenter.

    Which datacenter should I move my server's into? Bay Area would be convenient, by I don't mind looking at LA or Phoenix.

    Since I have not yet launched my site, I do not want to start with a big bandwidth commit -- say, 5mbit for starters. However, my switches support not only 10gige uplinks, but also gige etherchannel bonding; and, I know my cluster can handle a gigabit of http(s) traffic easily (local testing -- not DSL, obviously ) -- so, I want a datacenter that can grow with me.

    I also need to be able to run cat6 cross-connects to new racks as I add servers -- 4 servers each month. So, I don't want to use a datacenter that is short on rackspace.

    Finally, it seems to me that power costs can easily dominate the total colo costs. If a rack is limited at 15-20amps, then I won't be able to host more than 5-8 servers per rack. However, that might be fine as long as the cost-per-month/per-server is competitive. 26 servers in 6 racks or 26 servers in 3 racks makes no difference to me as long as the cost-per-server/month is the same.

    What do people think about Hurricane Electric's new Fremont datacenter? They are quoting a 15amp/rack limit (tied to a circuit breaker) for $400/rack per month (no setup fee) with free cross-connects and $750 for 5mbit commit with $150 for each additional mbit (95% billing). They have also told me that they have 1gbit and 10gbit uplinks available. For $500/month they can raise the per-rack power limit to 20amps. I figure I can safely host 5 servers per rack -- so, $80/month per server (excluding bandwidth); however, that feels high.

    I expect much of my traffic to go to HK, Singapore, and Tokyo.

    P.S. I am not streaming or distributing videos, audio, or photos. This is not a gaming service.

    Thanks for your thoughts!

  2. #2
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    HE.net will probably not be the place to be due to the power restriction. What you probably want is a datacenter that would allow you to use 40 or 60 amps per rack. Alternatively, you could look into baker shelves as well. Switch and Data, Equinix and Market Post Tower will probably be the better places to go since they all at least support 40 amps per rack. All of those sites are carrier neutral if you ever decided you wanted to switch providers and startup local peering with HK,singapore, and Japanese carriers.

    The price per mbps is reasonable for the small commit as well.

  3. #3
    I'd recommend possibly taking a look at Jupiter Hosting (http://jupiterhosting.com). I've got some space with them and I can't remember any disruptions to service (network or power) as long as I've been there. Bandwidth wise, they certainly have the capacity, many (if not just about all) of their clients push at least 1Gbps from what I've gathered with numerous clients pushing a few Gbps.

    I'm not sure however how the transit is over to Asia, though I don't doubt it's rock solid. And power wise, you should be able to get as much power as you need per rack to power those monster boxes. DC Power is available too.

  4. #4
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    I would suggest to work on some kind of "custom deal" with HE.net - pricewise/qualitywise here is no other data in Bay Area who can give better service for price you pay.

  5. #5
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    Steve Rubin - Nlayer recently acquired the old Navisite data center at 3080 Raymond in Santa Clara. He has decent pricing on power, and uses several carriers in his BGP mix including BTN (Reach)

  6. #6
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    <subscribe to thread>

    hello orioncyon,

    I am based in Tokyo / Japan if you need some hands on recommendations, feedback, Speed checks etc. regarding the DC you are about to choose.

    I will also be able to bring you in contact with potential DCs. I trust that you will want to keep your machines in US.
    However you will gain a significant edge speedwise when the machines are colocated directly in Tokyo.

    Calculate roughly 3-4 times the US price for DCs in Japan.

    Best regards
    Last edited by valentin_nils; 11-29-2006 at 10:16 PM.
    __--- Nils Valentin ---
    ☆★☆ Speedtest One: Tokyo / Japan ☆★☆ / Feedback
    ☆★☆ Speedtest Two: Tokyo / Japan ☆★☆ / Feedback

  7. #7
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  8. #8
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    you are correct -- steve rubin is layer42.net

  9. #9
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    One way you could save money on power is to use 208v power. Usually a 208v circuit is nominally more then a 100v circuit and you really do get a lot more power for your $$$.

    Most equipment can handle 208v power without a problem though you probably will want to double check and see what the power supply says before going that direction.

  10. #10
    I'm not familiar with Steve Rubin or layer42, however I did some googling and he seems to be very well regarded. I might get in touch with Layer42 to find out more.

    Layer42 has a post up on the 'Colo hosting offers' forum about a year ago offering a 110v/20a rack with 1mbs 95% for $500, which is similar to one of the Hurricane Electric configurations. So, price does not seem to be a differentiator between Layer42 and HE.net.

    The layer42 Santa Clara datacenter is about 17 miles from our office, and the HE.net Fremont datacenter is 24 miles from our office. So, distance is not a differentiator.

    Can anyone speak from first hand experience about colocating at the Layer42 Santa Clara datacenter? How does it compare with Hurricane Electric Fremont, MPT, and/or Switch and Data San Jose?

    Thanks again!

  11. #11
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    MPT, HE and Layer42 are far, far cheaper then Switch and Data 534 Stockton.
    MPT and Switch and Data 534 Stockton are carrier neutral.
    HE and Layer42 are quasi carrier neutral
    Layer42 probably has a better network to Asia then HE
    IMHO Layer42 runs a cleaner network then HE

  12. #12
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    If you want to get higher on power density, consider MPT. It is reasonbly price and will take on 40 amps per rack. It is probably more then Layer42 and HE, but infrastructure wise, MPT is not bad. The facility is also carrier neutral.

    If you are looking to maxing out the uptime and going with the best name in colo, then Switch and data and Equinix is the place to be. There are also much more choice of carrier options at Equinix and Switch and Data. In the long run if you need to use alot of bandwidth (especially to Asian carriers), being at these more expensive datacenter may save you money due to cheaper bandwidth cost.

    As of now, HE have pretty strong peering to Asian carriers. Everything that leaves to Asia in the SF Bay Area is solid and problem free. If the packet have to travel on transport to get to LA or the such, there are odd problems from time to time.

  13. #13
    To whom should I be talking to about getting a quotation on some 120v/40a locking cabinets at MPT (no bandwidth)? I've got "Jameson Agraz" from the MPT homepage. Is that the right contact?

    Also, does MPT support a 120v/30a 42u configuration? I've built my server's in 4U cases... I could have used 1U Tyan 500w cases; however, I didn't thinking that it's crazy to stack up 40 servers burning 2.5-3amps each.

    Also, which providers should I talk to about getting a 5mbit (95% billing) commit uplink in MPT? I can setup my own BGP router; however, I'd rather have someone else take care of that for now.

    Thanks

  14. #14
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    Jameson is the current sales rep for MPT. MPT maybe out of cabinets now, but they come by from time to time. Cage space is also tight at the location at the moment.

    120v/40a are the standard configuration for locking cabinets. I have seen 120v/30a configuration, but only in cage space. At MPT, you should have no problem dealing with 40a in a rack, though we are doing some mix and match and we run some of our open racks at 60A.

    For bandwidth, there are quite a few choices. You will get one cross connect to a provider of your choice if you do go direct on space with the building. Provider that comes to choice and run BGP/routers includes Inforelay and Layer42. You shouldn't really have any issue with bandwidth at this location.

  15. #15
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    As has been suggested by a few people, you're probably better off going with one of the larger carrier-neutral datacenters (such as MPT) if you want flexibility and need multiple racks. The actual rackspace might be more expensive, but you're likely to find better bandwidth prices, and it makes it much easier to switch network providers without needing to move any equipment.
    Scott Burns, President
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    Remote Rsync and FTP backup solutions
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  16. #16
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    Phoenix Colo

    Have you investigated Phoenix at all?
    [email protected]
    480-335-3200
    ICQ: 265429456
    http://www.highwinds.com

  17. #17
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    or Amsterdam?

  18. #18
    There is a fantastci new Co-lo in Fresno, CA.
    Gerat service and I know they are blowing out Racks really cheap.

    GR

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by netricksdotcom
    There is a fantastci new Co-lo in Fresno, CA.
    Gerat service and I know they are blowing out Racks really cheap.
    Don't leave us in suspense, who is it!?
    Anthony M. Faoro II - tmf [at] adtaq.com - (425) 444-8787 ex 7000
    Seattle Colocation @ Adtaq Internet | Seattle, WA | Be Happy!
    AIM TonyAdtaq | GTalk tmf [at] adtaq.com

  20. #20
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    If Greg (netricksdotcom) is refering to Peer 1 Networks / Equinix than I can confirm that they have pretty good traceroute times from Tokyo. (ca. 125 ms). That is probably as close as you can get to Asia (from inside USA).
    However that doesnt say anything yet about their network capacity yet. ;-)

    ( that is I assumed netricksdotcom is hosting with them right now )
    Last edited by valentin_nils; 11-30-2006 at 09:13 PM.
    __--- Nils Valentin ---
    ☆★☆ Speedtest One: Tokyo / Japan ☆★☆ / Feedback
    ☆★☆ Speedtest Two: Tokyo / Japan ☆★☆ / Feedback

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by orioncyon
    I'm not familiar with Steve Rubin or layer42, however I did some googling and he seems to be very well regarded. I might get in touch with Layer42 to find out more.
    I definately reccomend Layer42, their new datacenter is great and has plenty of space for your expansion. I have services with L42 and I am extremely pleased, everything is tip-top.
    AppliedOperations - Premium Service
    Bandwidth | Colocation | Hosting | Managed Services | Consulting
    www.appliedops.net

  22. #22
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    appliedops,

    if you provide an IP I can provide some traceroute times.
    __--- Nils Valentin ---
    ☆★☆ Speedtest One: Tokyo / Japan ☆★☆ / Feedback
    ☆★☆ Speedtest Two: Tokyo / Japan ☆★☆ / Feedback

  23. #23
    I contacted Layer42 earlier today, and was told to expect a written quotation by tomorrow afternoon. I was told that renting a 10x10 private cage is more cost effective than renting 5 racks individually.

    I have already received a quotation from Hurricane Electric for their Fremont 2 datacenter.

    Layer42 seems to have space in their new datacenter and their prices are competitive with Hurricane Electric. 110v/20amp circuits seem to be standard at Layer42, which tops HE -- althought HE does offer 110v/20a as an option over their standard 110v/15a circuits.

    I am very curious about the pricing on those 40amp and 60amp circuits at MPT. I am still trying to get in touch with MPT.

    I've heard a lot about 1 Wilshire and I've been reading about a new "Wilshire Extension" datacenter with virtual connectivity to the 1 Wilshire meet-me room. Any word on availability and pricing at Wilshire Extension as compared to Layer42 and MPT?

  24. #24
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    Wilshire will probably be a bit higher than MPT and certainly higher than Layer42 at Santa Clara.

    Layer42 is trying to filled up their new space where One Whilshire and MPT is almost all full.

  25. #25

    Hi.

    If you still need any info on MPT or OW, please let me know or many of the requlars here can give you the scoop.

    What you have read about Wilshire Annex is correct. It is a new acquisition that will give us virtually unlimited flexibility to meet any deployment requirements for the LA area. The MMR of OW is virtualized so you will have access to over 250 telco, internet and provider companies.

    At MPT, we also have some good offerings coming online in Jan of '07 with a significant announcement relating to the Bay Area expected in the next few weeks.

    Certainly an exciting time.

    P.S. Cage space is in pretty good supply ATM and we will have plenty Cabinets available VERY shortly.
    Last edited by JamesonA; 12-01-2006 at 10:55 PM.

  26. #26
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    Although a little off the subject of the OP, I would like to personally recommend Ethr.net and their network. We are there now and have nothing but kinds words for the their network uptime and performance. If San Jose is a consideration, I would recommend contacting him. They were able to provide customized solutions for us, which might make it perfect for you guys.

    Jordan

  27. #27
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    Jay at ethr.net is a great guy as well. Very helpful with anything. Id recommend them highly.

  28. #28

    AT&T Redwood City

    Have you considered AT&T in Redwood City ?

    The AT&T West Data Center in Redwood City appears to be half empty. The sales persons might try to convince you about some waiting period and huge demand but with so much of empty space in there I can't imagine they will not do good deals. (Unless someone is paying them to keep all that space empty)

  29. #29
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    Hello,

    Any reseller that uses HE.net will work for you, they have direct connections to the areas your looking for

    Quote Originally Posted by orioncyon

    I expect much of my traffic to go to HK, Singapore, and Tokyo.

    P.S. I am not streaming or distributing videos, audio, or photos. This is not a gaming service.

    Thanks for your thoughts!

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