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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    Washington, DC
    Posts
    591

    New AlphaRed/OrangeFibre billing policies

    AlphaRed/OrangeFibre e-mailed me their new billing policies. I find this a little scary:

    #Past Due Accounts:

    - Payments past due 24 hours:
    Notification and warning sent.

    - Payments past due 48 hours:
    Server is disconnected for non-payment until remittance is made. A $49 LATE FEE
    will be assessed.

    - Payments past due 72 hours:
    Server is permanently cancelled, and hard drive is reformatted.
    Well, I pay by credit card automatic billing so I shouldn't have trouble, but I could imagine an improbable situation where I end up in the hospital for some reason, AND my credit card gets stolen, or something like that...
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  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    251
    Wow! I'd run as fast as I could away from a host that wipes my hard drive in only 3 days of a payment problem. Looks like they don't put their customers needs first. There can be all sorts of reasons a payment might be late every once in a while. I can see disconnecting a server for non-payment, but I'd hope they would keep the data around for awhile until it can be determined why the payment was not made on time.
    Kevin, The Walrus
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  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    2,853
    I'm not currently a customer, but I've had times where my only computer goes down for that amount of time.

    Actually, my motherboard on my brothers computer just died and it'll probably be like a week before it gets back up.

    I think they will have alot of terminations where the customer actually wants to pay but cannot. What about going somewhere for christmas or something?
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  4. #4
    With using that much bw, per a client they run a large risk if a client doesn't pay past the 72 hr mark. Alot of companies are going to a simliar scheme, burst.net charges you 7 days in advance if you don't pay by your renewal date you are turned off ( I think) which is also a very fair policy.
    Jay
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  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    2,853
    Jay, if that's the case, why totally erase all the data after 72 hours?

    The server won't use bandwidth if it's unplugged.

    If they are doing this to customers that pay thousands a month (for their bw packages) that's kinda reckless imo.

    Edit: Doesn't paypal take 3-4 days anyway to get the money from the bank to your account? What if you forgot? I dont think an e-check would fly.
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  6. #6
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Toronto, Canada
    Posts
    5,105
    Pay on or before its due and you don't have an issue.

    I am sure its great for their business model to have servers sitting around unused instead of being available for resale.

    /end sarcasm.
    CloudNexus Technology Services
    Managed Services
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  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    688
    paypal echecks = long time
    paypal instant debit = instant

    i don't see how its a problem to anyone.
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  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    2,853
    Quote Originally Posted by CoolRaul
    Pay on or before its due and you don't have an issue.

    I am sure its great for their business model to have servers sitting around unused instead of being available for resale.

    /end sarcasm.
    Well it's better to try and keep your current customers.
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  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Mark L
    Jay, if that's the case, why totally erase all the data after 72 hours?

    The server won't use bandwidth if it's unplugged.

    If they are doing this to customers that pay thousands a month (for their bw packages) that's kinda reckless imo.

    Edit: Doesn't paypal take 3-4 days anyway to get the money from the bank to your account? What if you forgot? I dont think an e-check would fly.

    Totally erase is a bit harsh, I will agree with that, but 72 hrs is ok. Typically when we cancel we keep the HD's for upto a week.
    Jay
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  10. #10
    We have had a lot of customers try and abuse our VERY LENIANT past policies ... to have any complaints at this point is rather a minute point.

    The email was a bit harsh, and that is to really awaken everyone who receives it.
    We incur costs for your servers being online, every minute of every day... when you don't pay on time, it affects the financial planning.

    Of course this is planned into our finances, but policies need to be set forth to try and fix the issues.


    If clients need extensions, we are happy to give them ... we also take into account your account HISTORY on payments before shutting down a server, and all servers which are shutdown are run by and approved by management before doing so, AND will be kept intact for 3-4 days past shutdown. Depending on who you are, your server may be reformatted for sale if we have reason to believe you will not be making payment and you have not contacted us.

    The ONLY people that will be affected by these new policies will be those who are ABUSING our past policies.
    We will still make multiple attempts to contact customers, and the action we take will be dictated by your account history with us.
    These are policies, we can bend them if needed.

    It is also your responsibility to ensure that your obligations are taken care of at all times, whether that be disaster planning, or otherwise.

    These policies are also going hand in hand with the integration into UberSmith Datacenter Edition.


    Not to mention that we send out:

    1. Postal invoices to every client, every month
    2. Email invoices if you're a non-CC customer, or your CC was declined

    3 days before shutdown, and keep your data for 3-4 days is a good policy and not a harsh one in any way.
    Last edited by MSV_AR; 11-28-2006 at 09:56 PM.
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  11. #11
    Also guys, don't forget that it is not all that cut and dry.

    You will be getting payment reminders starting 2 weeks prior to your due date, with continued reminders up until your due day.
    You will receive a invoice on your due date, and then you will receive a reminder at 24 and 48 hours past due.

    Not to mention you can talk to the billing department at any time and arrange for an extension, or explain your situation.
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  12. #12
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Atlanta, GA
    Posts
    5,662
    Quote Originally Posted by MSV_AR
    Also guys, don't forget that it is not all that cut and dry.

    You will be getting payment reminders starting 2 weeks prior to your due date, with continued reminders up until your due day.
    You will receive a invoice on your due date, and then you will receive a reminder at 24 and 48 hours past due.

    Not to mention you can talk to the billing department at any time and arrange for an extension, or explain your situation.


    Nobody likes deadbeat customers. There are always certain circumstances when you need to work with an otherwise good customer who hit a rough spot and got behind. However, those who are habitual offenders need to be delt with.

    Good luck on your new policies
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  13. #13
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Albany, NY
    Posts
    3,956
    I also don't really see anything wrong with this. If you know you're going to be away, etc.. let them know ahead of time or pay the bill before you leave.

    If, for some reason, you end up in the hospital, in a coma, right around your billing date, you will most likely have more important things to worry about anyway. This is the only case where I can see it actually hurting the client, but I'd say this will be a rather rare occurence.
    AYKsolutions.com - High Bandwidth Specialists - 10Gbps/20Gbps+ Unmetered & DDOS Protected
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  14. #14
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    251
    Quote Originally Posted by ayksolutions
    I also don't really see anything wrong with this.
    Of course you don't. But see it from a customer point of view. I don't have a problem disconnecting a server for late payment, but to wipe all data after only 3 days is very bad policy. I would run away from a host like this.

    If they want to recycle the server, they should swap hard drives and keep the existing hard drives with the customer data around for 30 days or until the customer has responded with their intentions. We all know sending email is not a reliable communications vehicle but it seems that many "non-customer centered" hosts simply fire off an email and then just pull the plug when they don't get any response. This is simply bad business. Wiping a customer's data should be done only after you have made a real effort to contact the customer and see what is really going on. 3 days is just ridiculous.
    Kevin, The Walrus
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  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Atlanta, GA
    Posts
    253
    I can agree with the new policy; except for the 72 hour reformat..... I agree with AWalrus, just swap out the hard drives and hold on to the old one(s) for maybe 2 or 4 weeks.... That way you can still use that server for new orders, with the exception of the hard drive....
    -steve
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  16. #16
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Atlanta, GA
    Posts
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    Why should they do you any favors if you don't pay?

    *you being a hypothetical dead beat customer*
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  17. #17
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Posts
    9,264
    Quote Originally Posted by Mark L
    Edit: Doesn't paypal take 3-4 days anyway to get the money from the bank to your account? What if you forgot? I dont think an e-check would fly.
    Then don't forget.
    Where's responsibility these days?

    If you're going to be overdue on your payments at least have the decency to notify your provider. Sheesh.
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  18. #18
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    69
    I don't see why people are slagging on OF....

    First and foremost the equipment is theirs. You pay for a service and once that service has ended (ie. you are overdue), what they do with *their* server is *their* business.

    Taking out the hard-drives, storing them then recycling the server is a nice angle... but really, why should they waste labour and time to tie up their hard-drives if there is a possibility the customer is not going to pay up.

    If they wipe it after 72 hours and you don't have backups, then that's poor system administration.
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  19. #19
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    1,635
    Oh boy I can't imagine my hard drives being wiped (all the data). Like someone else says what if your in a coma? :| All I will be dreaming about is my servers of course.

    Everything else I agree on , but the 72hrs - data wiped I dunno maybe we just got to get used to it.

    x2: but i see why this is being put , people not paying slow things down. if there is a problem contact your host. is a great thing i haven't got this type of rule with my hosts ..they are always so nice and all
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  20. #20
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    New York, NY
    Posts
    10,710
    Don't you all think it's kind of ironic how some people have to sue AlphaRed to get paid yet AlphaRed is being so tough on their own customers' payments?
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  21. #21
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    1,635
    Quote Originally Posted by layer0
    Don't you all think it's kind of ironic how some people have to sue AlphaRed to get paid yet AlphaRed is being so tough on their own customers' payments?
    Interesting *wonders what they owe* or if they do owe someone something.
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  22. #22
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    North Yorkshire, UK
    Posts
    4,164
    There's really nothing wrong with this, and infact I actually back them up.

    Customers that constantly pay late and have to be phoned up and asked to make payment cost a lot of money to look after. Unfortunately a small minority of our client base do this every month, and waste time that could otherwise be spent doing other more productive things.

    You also have to realise that there is a chain in this industry. When you pay a provider your cash doesn't stop there. Your provider has to pay the owners of the datacentre for the space, the datacentre has to pay back their loan for the building, etc. When you make a payment late, you delay the whole chain and damage the financial history of the company you are renting from, this could affect their ability to get finance in future, etc. For this reason it is essential that companies have strict accounting policies and stick to them well.

    On a side note - It also makes sense to credit check clients before taking them on, we have started doing this with big contracts where a large amount of hardware is required to protect our investment and it has reduced the number of customers that have got out of contracts with us through bankrupt businesses to zero.

    Dan
    Last edited by dkitchen; 11-29-2006 at 11:01 PM.
    █ Dan Kitchen | Technical Director | Razorblue
    █ ddi: (+44) (0)1748 900 680 | e: dkitchen@razorblue.com
    █ UK Intensive Managed Hosting, Clusters and Colocation.
    █ HP Servers, Cisco/Juniper Powered BGP Network (AS15692).
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  23. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by layer0
    Don't you all think it's kind of ironic how some people have to sue AlphaRed to get paid yet AlphaRed is being so tough on their own customers' payments?

    Ahhh yes, and I am sure that your brilliant mind has deduced the entire issue.
    Rather than mistakenly ASSUMED "ideas" to be fact.

    And before anyone asks, NO, I will not air our laundry out in public ... it is none of your business, and does not affect anyone. So please dont bother trying to be nosey.
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  24. #24
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Atlanta, GA
    Posts
    5,662
    Quote Originally Posted by MSV_AR
    Ahhh yes, and I am sure that your brilliant mind has deduced the entire issue.
    Rather than mistakenly ASSUMED "ideas" to be fact.

    And before anyone asks, NO, I will not air our laundry out in public ... it is none of your business, and does not affect anyone. So please dont bother trying to be nosey.

    Rumors and legal issues tend to follow James. Unfortuneatly issues in the past were made quite public. Which lead people to be ever curious and even more nosey at the hint of some fresh meat
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  25. #25
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Minneapolis, MN
    Posts
    1,648
    Quote Originally Posted by peruviantalk
    Oh boy I can't imagine my hard drives being wiped (all the data). Like someone else says what if your in a coma? :| All I will be dreaming about is my servers of course.
    Once you come out of the coma, you just settle your affairs with AR/OF and start to execute your documented recovery plan using the data from your last automated nightly backup. We're all responsible admins and have current full working backups, right?
    Eric Spaeth
    Enterprise Network Engineer :: Hosting Hobbyist :: Master of Procrastination
    "The really cool thing about facts is they remain true regardless of who states them."
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