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  1. #1

    London Colocation: Need expert advice

    We're evaluating colocation providers in Europe for expansion. We're very familiar with carriers and geography hosting issues in the US, but need some better ideas of how it is in Europe.

    First, please put this all in the perpective of a latency sensitive application (need >50 ping times).

    In the US, we rely on premium carriers such as Internap, Level3 (Central and East) and MZima (on the West Coast). However, in looking into colo providers in London, we're finding carriers we don't have experience with, so we don't know which ones are "quality". Example: Tiscali, NTT Verio, Telia, Interoute.

    Secondly, is having servers in London adequeate for users in Germany and Norway? Would colocation in Frankfurt and Amsterdam give significantly better results?

    Finally, please recommend some of the major colo providers in Europe.

    Thanks!

  2. #2
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    NTT is a good ISP for USA/Asia (we have it, and can't fault it), Telia is excellent for EU, as it is a European ISP again, we have it and can't fault it. Tiscali isn't a bad ISP and is quite good again for EU.

    We get 18ms to frankfurt and 9ms to Amsterdam over our entanet bandwidth, and roughly the same over our telia.

    We've not had any complaints from German/Norway customers so this is all I can say about that.

    This is all my own experiances.

  3. #3
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    Recommendations really depend on your volume, as most of the majors are full up now, or are only taking orders for 20+ racks.
    Karl Austin :: KDA Web Services Ltd.
    UK Business Hosting and Managed Servers - Hosting for Business Users :: 0800 5429 764
    Call us today and ask about our hosting solutions.

  4. #4
    Most of the major data centers are full? This seems highly unlikely.

  5. #5
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    Then there's no point asking for advice if you're not wanting to hear the answers

    Most of the decent facilities, are now full, or not selling any more space due to lack of power. I heard of yet another facility just a couple of days ago that was down to their last suite, with customers fighting it out to get it.
    Karl Austin :: KDA Web Services Ltd.
    UK Business Hosting and Managed Servers - Hosting for Business Users :: 0800 5429 764
    Call us today and ask about our hosting solutions.

  6. #6
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    Avoid Redbus like the plague.
    It depends how much space, power and bandwidth your looking for.

  7. #7
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    Hi,

    As Karl has pointed out, if you are looking at collocation in London, be prepared to pay for it. At the present time space and more importantly power are at a premium. I know Telehouse North and East at the present time won't even lease any space in their shared suites. However, they are doing all sorts of building works at the moment with an end to increasing cooling capacity.

    With regard to transit, TeliaSonera definitely have a good footprint in Europe, however as your application requires quick responses, I would consider joining the major peering points within Europe such as LINX, AMS-IX, DE-CIX. Hopefully you would see the benefit of this however, the justification has to be correct with regard to the amount of traffic that you are pushing.

    S

  8. #8
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    IMO, NTT/Verio's network has gone down the drain in the past few months, I've seen hours where latency has been through the roof without a fix, because their network has such a big footprint this causes major issues.

    Tiscali are pretty good too, and will get you some good routes to the US East Coast and the rest of Europe, as will Telia, but probably not quite as well.

    Interoute have a pretty small network but from a small amount of experience with them their network is pretty good.

    Like others have said, be prepared to pay a fortune to get some rackspace in London, it's just getting stupid, and unfortunately some people are prepared to pay the stupid prices.

    Dan

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by RazorBlue - Dan
    unfortunately some people are prepared to pay the stupid prices.
    Can you please explain the alternatives for companies that have to have their servers/kit in London?
    Mark Castle
    Secura Hosting Ltd
    www.capitalethernet.co.uk
    My views are my own and not those of my company.

  10. #10
    Anyone heard of Gyron? Opinions?

  11. #11
    Join Date
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    Anyone heard of Gyron? Opinions?
    I have In a word, superb. They're one of our preferenced transit suppliers for a very good reason.

    Kris
    Kris - nitrohosting.net
    Premium Dell Windows/Linux dedicated servers in London
    Great value shared hosting & ADSL.
    PM/Email for no-obligation quotes.

  12. #12
    Great. Finally - we'll be shipping servers from the US to colo in London. These are our servers, and we're not selling them to anyone in the UK. They're for our business use. Do we still have to pay some sort of 17.5% tax to export them to the UK?

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by abbynormal1
    Great. Finally - we'll be shipping servers from the US to colo in London. These are our servers, and we're not selling them to anyone in the UK. They're for our business use. Do we still have to pay some sort of 17.5% tax to export them to the UK?
    If they are for internal business purposes, no VAT is payable on them, no.

    Dan

  14. #14
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    :p

    Telehouse North is the place to be, im sure they can lease you come colo space give them a call and explain that you plan to expand etc, im sure they will offer you something. Oh and ship fedex ground, you pay less and there is hardly ever any import charges.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by vwstor
    Telehouse North is the place to be, im sure they can lease you come colo space give them a call and explain that you plan to expand etc, im sure they will offer you something. Oh and ship fedex ground, you pay less and there is hardly ever any import charges.
    Telehouse have no more space available until after their major rebuilding works, and have long since stopped doing "colo space" in favour of selling you suites of racks.

    The issue of the import-duty/vat is a long and complex one, and really depends on the carrier's policies, but on a server is *unlikely* to get away without paying it when it is brought into the UK.
    Rob Golding Astutium Ltd - UK based ICANN Accredited Domain Registrar - proud to accept BitCoins
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  16. #16
    I'm told that:

    A. VAT is payable by the receiver. I wonder how I can make sure that it's not charged, since it's not applicable.

    B. Fedex doesn't ship ground to UK. Apparently shipping will be like $230 for 1 server to UK - ouch!

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by abbynormal1
    A. VAT is payable by the receiver. I wonder how I can make sure that it's not charged, since it's not applicable.
    You cant. The goods *are* being imported from outside the EU so VAT is charegable.

    Quote Originally Posted by abbynormal1
    B. Fedex doesn't ship ground to UK. Apparently shipping will be like $230 for 1 server to UK - ouch!
    150 is about right for shipping to the UK.
    Rob Golding Astutium Ltd - UK based ICANN Accredited Domain Registrar - proud to accept BitCoins
    Buying Web Hosts and Domain Registrars Today @ hostacquisitions.co.uk
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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by othellotech
    You cant. The goods *are* being imported from outside the EU so VAT is charegable.
    You do not have to pay tax if the servers are for your own use / companies use where a sales transaction has not taken place (i.e. the servers were yours when they left the USA, and will remain to be yours when they arrive in the UK). It is referred to as an 'inta-company transfer'. If you are going to sell the servers, then that's a totally different story and you will have to pay VAT.

    You simply fill in a declaration and quote the receivers VAT number and the import will be allowed, and no VAT will be charged. I've asked HMRC about this before and they confirmed that this is the correct and legal way to go about it.

    With regards to shipping that's about right, but still slightly pricey, do you have a FedEx account as it's quite likely you'd be able to get about 40% off that price.

    Dan
    Last edited by dkitchen; 11-14-2006 at 07:46 PM.

  19. #19
    excellent help RazorBlue! It is indeed an intra-company transfer, no sales transaction is taking place. We'll definitely want to complete the correct paperwork and use our FedEx account number. Thanks for your help!

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by abbynormal1
    I'm told that:

    B. Fedex doesn't ship ground to UK. Apparently shipping will be like $230 for 1 server to UK - ouch!
    You didn't think they could did you?

    There is a whole lot of deep blue sea between the US and the UK!
    Thanks,

    Brendan Diaz
    Connect: linkedin.com/in/brendandiaz

  21. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Brendan Diaz
    You didn't think they could did you?

    There is a whole lot of deep blue sea between the US and the UK!
    lol, well, "ground" is really just their level of service. Even in the US, FedEx ground travels by air on occasion.

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