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  1. #26
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    also read "BID MAY BE STILL OPEN in case

    Regs: http://webhostingtalk.com/showthread.php?t=560265" IN CASE..with reference to this issue, where as mentioned in above threads that if (since 3 have come back already) asking for a new host or suitable one who replies to support emails, etc and offer uptime and not downtime from day1.

    If that host was doing his work right and getting everything right, id be sleeping and enjoying my Sunday rather than posting and talking to everyone - with white hair coming out...

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by fremont
    No they are not for sale. I mentione that as in for those clietns who REQUIRE New hosts and have come back to ME saying they WILL NOT host with the new host because of the issues ...instead of leaving them in a fix with their sites down on both sides, I am offering to send them to other hosting companies.

    Regards
    For a price? Also, you are selling 8 of them? Or am I just imagining the "Please continue bids over 250$ USD ONLY"?

    As mentioned previously, you need to talk to a lawyer. You are opening yourself wide open to legal action and you can bet it will be for a lot more than the tiny amount you got for the clients.

    You sold the clients, you have zero right to take them back a few days later or to sell them on again, you also have zero right to move them elsewhere. They are no longer YOUR clients.

  3. #28
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    If you sold the client contracts to another party, you have no liability to refund them when they complain. They had a contract with you, you sold that contract. The person buying the contract is responsible to either fulfill the contract or refund it.

    Further, if you have no non-compete agreement with the person who bought the contracts - you are perfectly fine to take on a new contract with the customer under your new company. You cannot, however, simply take the customers back and pick up where you left off and let them assume the old contract with you.

    NOTE: I am not a lawyer and do not take my advice as being legally sound. I'm simply stating my past experience and what I was told at the time.

    --Tina
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  4. #29
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    Bids is sine the clients need a host , which means clients want someone suitable. I am screening them very deligently - the clients are Gods - I'm sure we agree and the best way to get them to best people is buy pricing their worth. Whether you agree on this or not - the client's are happy as long as they find a 100% satisfied hostiing company. Agreed?

    The clients are coming back saying they want to be moved . I cannot move them however I can suggest alternatives. Since they are not my clients I CAN GIVE FREE / PAID Advice. Either you havent heard the clients side (if not mine) or you havent seen the hosting company's support or whats going on.

    Either way, the clients want to be put somewhere. Now I see it in two ways - They dont mind if I get money since Im putting THEM in the best possible hands or ADVISING THEM (if you must hear) . They have no issues of this as long as the advise is from me (since they trust me) and as long as they dont pay money from their pockets.

    Another point to look at is if the Hosting Company who bought it cant hold the clients...and the clients come back to me ... it means in LEGAL TERMS -

    His clients searching for NEW HOSTS , come to me for advise , I find them a better host , Deal it out with the new host (sign an agreement of no competition if required), and let them be happy. No client wants to get thrown around from place to place NOR do they want to get dropped in a broken boat or a ship wreck.

    I HAVE NOT TAKEN THEM BACK. As mentioned in my first post, they COMPLAINED and came to me. At no point of time have I even asked them COME TO ME , you say TAKE THEM BACK...its more like keeping their sites online and them alive ....if you ask me.

    However, its your opinion..my main concern is what to do - whether to help them out or leave them in the hands of the mercyful...but that decision has been made. Whoever comes for help or refuge will be advised where to go. Those who are happy there won't come to me or anyone else WILL THEY?

    Anyhow, the rest is to be played out. For everyone sake, especially mine I hope that company bucks up and put its act together...

  5. #30
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    Tina: Further, if you have no non-compete agreement with the person who bought the contracts - you are perfectly fine to take on a new contract with the customer under your new company. You cannot, however, simply take the customers back and pick up where you left off and let them assume the old contract with you.

    ---- As I said, I dont want to host them...I want them put somewhere right. But at the same time I need to find the best ones. Now I could spend hours searching for the right one and send them somewhere without charging that host anything, HOWEVER I still feel that the clients agree that charging is fine as long as they dont pay, get a good host and can have a happy future there.... I have not asked these clients to come back, they came to me and started blaming me and saying they wanted the old server back (Me) however I told them I cant since I sold the biz to them. I have offered them to advise where go to and work it out for them. I feel if the company that wants them and the company (latest new one) realises the current scenario and wants them and CAN PROVE THEIR WORTH - there is nothing wrong here. I have not contacted them or ask them to come to me. Theyve come and im sure they will vouch on that themselves if any legal issue is opened up - so from that side not worried. More worried now is WHERE and with WHOM to put them up.

  6. #31
    Your problem here shivam is that you didnt ask your clients in the first place if they wanted to be sold on.

    At no point did you even email any of us telling us you were planning on doing this all we got was a email to change the dns's because we'd been moved on.

    Do you think this was right?

    The point is you sold out to a quick bidder so you could get the money for whatever reason and didnt properly look into the new host and how he would be able to manage us.

    I dont feel Any of the clients you sold off are completely happy with this move which is why they are comming back, we didnt want to move in the first place wether you like it or not.

    You should of consulted Us that way we could of moved on in our own way or moved with you in the best direction, its Us who are being hosted here not you!

    For Everyone else here, the basic jist of this conversation is that the current host is dead it doesnt nor isnt working at all for many of us and we've come back to the one person which started all this since the current host wont talk to many of us with no replys to emails.

    I advise you to remove your post in that other topic and stop thinking about making money from Us and move on, help those who are asking for it but be done with it and this is coming from one of your own clients!

    We've asked that you keep hosting us a while untill we get out dedicated server up and running smoothly and your fine with that. As for the the dead host we'll deal with him how we see fit and possibly seek legal action for a refund for the loss of downtime and mess we've been put into.

  7. #32
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    All the clients dont mind as long as they dont face downtime or issues. Ive talked to all of them and even your brother (Im assuming this is Rich posting) said he wasnt really bothered about it ( I believe I have that on my msn chat) as well.

    As for your hosting, have I denied it? Ive been most willing to help you and anyone else.

    However, you may feel this is a money making gimmick. If you wish Ill remove the post and let you all do as you please...Im spending my time , busting my balls to help you move. I am selling out my hosting biz in its entirity and you think I enjoy this - spending a sunday typing this when I could be out with my GirlFriend. Excuse me , if you think of me in this way . Because if you do , then you either made a bad decision hosting with me or are saying this because thats what you feel without seeing whats going on.

    Anyhow, if everyone else (clients) want me to remove it I will and let them do what they please. Sadly, I have 4 of them who need trasnfers and don't care how I do it as long as they don't fall in mud. As for you trust me if I didnt care I wouldnt be supporting you at all and would have left you with the other host for all I care...but I DO CARE.

    Anyhow, thats for you to decide and think.
    Your perception is how you see it, and not how it is REALLY there.

  8. #33
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    As of now , I have nothing else to add here and the steps for the 4 clients who need quick trasnfer wil be helepd out. Andy and Rich, you may continue hosting until you deal with your other NEW HOST and the Dedicated you are to get.

    Best Wishes to all,
    Thanks for your time....

    Mods may close this topic if there is nothing else to discuss since my main questions have been solved and of course if Rich/Andy have no further additions to make , we can close this topic and hope that the other host does something or the clients find a new host.

    As for the extras....I believe I passed the contracts of clients to the new owner - the new owner has to deal with issues and I will continue with my life and my other work .

  9. #34
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    While this is not a professional legal advice, i will try my best :

    First of all, you didnt conduct the sale by doing the proper legal proceedings i understand.

    Which means that, it will be very hard to prove you have 'sold' the business to someone else, and are not responsible for any damages resulting therein.

    Second, you will still probably be responsible towards your previous clients, since clickthrough agreements and online orders for sales and services of sorts like web hosting & domain name registrations generally hold. And it will be probable for your clients to prove it via their credit card history, emails received and even need be, using the wayback machine (internetarchive.org).

    What i see is you still are legally responsible for your clients according to law in many countries. And the buyer would not be able to prove that they were his/her clients now, since s/he wont have anything to show other than msn history and a payment record of some sorts. This is doubtful to hold in a court of law.

    Hence you should take care of your clients still and try to get proper signatures on a well written paper that is proof of the sale and waiver of damages.

    This was the legal part.

    Professionally, you are still responsible for your clients, in part you didnt (i gather) notice them in advance enough, didnt get proper sale documents, and they are in trouble.

    As it seems, you will have to charge a reasonable administration fee from your buyer and continue maintaining the clients on his/her server, and try to train him on web hosting.

  10. #35
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    You could always ask WHP how they keep doing it!!!
    It's a Savage Universe out there!
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  11. #36
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    You could always ask WHP how they keep doing it!!!
    Ouch.... LOW BLOW!
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    Reselling? Partner for profit instead!

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by unity100
    While this is not a professional legal advice, i will try my best :

    First of all, you didnt conduct the sale by doing the proper legal proceedings i understand.

    Which means that, it will be very hard to prove you have 'sold' the business to someone else, and are not responsible for any damages resulting therein.

    Second, you will still probably be responsible towards your previous clients, since clickthrough agreements and online orders for sales and services of sorts like web hosting & domain name registrations generally hold. And it will be probable for your clients to prove it via their credit card history, emails received and even need be, using the wayback machine (internetarchive.org).

    What i see is you still are legally responsible for your clients according to law in many countries. And the buyer would not be able to prove that they were his/her clients now, since s/he wont have anything to show other than msn history and a payment record of some sorts. This is doubtful to hold in a court of law.

    Hence you should take care of your clients still and try to get proper signatures on a well written paper that is proof of the sale and waiver of damages.

    This was the legal part.

    Professionally, you are still responsible for your clients, in part you didnt (i gather) notice them in advance enough, didnt get proper sale documents, and they are in trouble.

    As it seems, you will have to charge a reasonable administration fee from your buyer and continue maintaining the clients on his/her server, and try to train him on web hosting.

    This has got to be the smartest dumbest thing ever posted. I can't speak for the world, but in the US contracts are all that the courts are concerned about. Selling a company is merely selling its contracts, it's the same with a loan, a car, or a peice of candy. Once the contracts are sold meaning that the ownership has been transferred, the seller is released of all contract obligations and the buyer assumes them. That's it nothing more nothing less. Hurt feelings, morals and the like have no bearing on things that have gone awry after the deal.

    Look at it this way, if the buyer of the contracts is able to charge double does that mean the seller gets the new profit? Of course not. I'm sure there are many on this board who have had their mortgage or at least student loan sold to a different company without warning until the deal was done. Do you call the old lender and complain and tell them you don't like who bought the loan and want them to find a different company for you? Of course not, you deal with the new lender and hold them responsible for whatever pains you are feeling from the deal. Or look at at this way, Comcast just bought out my local cable company last month. My wife noticed one of the cable lines on the street is fraying and she called to get it fixed. Who should she call? Comcast or the local cable company? The line was run by the local company, when we signed up our original agreement is with them. Should we hunt down the old employees and get them to come out and fix it?

    Fact of the matter is fremont is doing above and beyond what he is legally obligated to do.

  13. #38
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    To be honest here the host does not have to ask the clients if he wants to sell them or not. Sure it would be nice, but that is not how business works. Does not matter if the clients want to be sold or not if he the host want to sell his clients he has all right to do so.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zero7
    Your problem here shivam is that you didnt ask your clients in the first place if they wanted to be sold on.

    At no point did you even email any of us telling us you were planning on doing this all we got was a email to change the dns's because we'd been moved on.

    Do you think this was right?
    I am back....


  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Torith
    To be honest here the host does not have to ask the clients if he wants to sell them or not. Sure it would be nice, but that is not how business works. Does not matter if the clients want to be sold or not if he the host want to sell his clients he has all right to do so.
    The above is correct. You own the business and owning it means every aspect of its operations, resources and customer base. Legally since your company was bought up ( or in this case sold ), its the new host's problem.

    But you can, out of goodwill, if the clients comeback to you provide them with the service, or if you are willing, give them a "pay back" of the amount of months remaining when they sign up with you.

    However here comes another thing... If you sold yur hosting company and starts a new one immediately... what would that project for your own image?

    I encountered this problem before when my company was doing only free web hosting and had to outsource our commercial hostng plans. The outsourced company disappeared and every client came back to me for an answer.... Hosted them on one of my servers and provided them with solutions until they are happy to move off somewhere else.

    My 2 Cents.
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  15. #40
    I don't mean to be rude , but If his company doesn't exsist, as i find it unlikely it is a registered company, your selling your clients as a sole trader, where you would be responsible, since you have No agreements, it would be he says she says.

    This is a pointless discussion as no court would ever recognise that the clients were sold or not sold, you have 0 agreements.

    You should sell, help move and thats it. No more.
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  16. #41
    Might it be easiest to contact the new owner and offer to go in and six the database so that the server works?
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  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by c3r3br0
    This has got to be the smartest dumbest thing ever posted. I can't speak for the world, but in the US contracts are all that the courts are concerned about. Selling a company is merely selling its contracts, it's the same with a loan, a car, or a peice of candy. Once the contracts are sold meaning that the ownership has been transferred, the seller is released of all contract obligations and the buyer assumes them. That's it nothing more nothing less. Hurt feelings, morals and the like have no bearing on things that have gone awry after the deal.

    Look at it this way, if the buyer of the contracts is able to charge double does that mean the seller gets the new profit? Of course not. I'm sure there are many on this board who have had their mortgage or at least student loan sold to a different company without warning until the deal was done. Do you call the old lender and complain and tell them you don't like who bought the loan and want them to find a different company for you? Of course not, you deal with the new lender and hold them responsible for whatever pains you are feeling from the deal. Or look at at this way, Comcast just bought out my local cable company last month. My wife noticed one of the cable lines on the street is fraying and she called to get it fixed. Who should she call? Comcast or the local cable company? The line was run by the local company, when we signed up our original agreement is with them. Should we hunt down the old employees and get them to come out and fix it?

    Fact of the matter is fremont is doing above and beyond what he is legally obligated to do.
    i see that you have not paid attention to the core of my post while reading.

    he dont have reliable evidence to the proof of sale on his hands ? does he ?

    a signed contract of sale, an acceptable transaction, anything ? something apart from msn logs ?

    since he does not have such a proof, the court will probably deem that sale has not happened. am i wrong ?

  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by unity100
    i see that you have not paid attention to the core of my post while reading.

    he dont have reliable evidence to the proof of sale on his hands ? does he ?

    a signed contract of sale, an acceptable transaction, anything ? something apart from msn logs ?

    since he does not have such a proof, the court will probably deem that sale has not happened. am i wrong ?

    ...and then the buyer shows the court proof of payment (paypal logs, bank statements, etc.) showing that money changed hands, along with MSN logs/Emails/etc., which clearly show a transaction took place...and he's screwed and looks like a complete liar and cheat. Yeah, great legal advice.

    --Tina
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  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by AH-Tina
    ...and then the buyer shows the court proof of payment (paypal logs, bank statements, etc.) showing that money changed hands, along with MSN logs/Emails/etc., which clearly show a transaction took place...and he's screwed and looks like a complete liar and cheat. Yeah, great legal advice.

    --Tina
    again this is not professional legal advice, note that.

    paypal logs wouldnt prove an end-the-gig type of evidence, given the fraud, chargeback and etc going on their system. And in either case, either with bank statement and paypal, seller can claim that funds were somehow mistakenly transferred to his/her account.

    for msn logs, they dont count anything - they are not saved and protected by a trustable third party, in this case msn servers. a text log sitting in a local hard drive can be edited to even talk about a sale of 1000 acres of land on the moon. emails are valid if the participating servers' logs reflect the email correspondence, but even then the seller in this case claim that a correspondence has happened, but content was no such sale of sorts and accuse the buyer of editing his thunderbird/msn inbox or his server's local account inbox (if webmail).

    there are shady parts of the law. i have saw that similar issues happen with more reliable (written) documents, and on a digital platform such defense is easier.

    even with binding written contracts, you can never know and tell that if the person signing your contract is putting his own signature on it and not scribbling some irrelevant stuff on the signature part.

    best is to do contracts with the presence and recording of a notar. however generally impractical in international over-the-net transactions.

  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by fremont
    I need POSTERS OVER 1000+ Posts and Mods and Admins to reply ONLY since this needs a BIG decision on how to play
    this situation out....It's total chaos here and I have 20 clients screaming out !
    Little reality check for you.

    Post count says nothing about a persons experience in the hosting industry.

    Just because someone joined yesterday doesn't mean they are new to hosting completely, and WHT is by far NOT a means to judge who's who in the hosting world.

    ------------------------------------------

    Now, what I would do, is stick to your guns, and start charging this new owner some bucks each time you have to fix something, either that, or recommend him to someone who CAN fix things properly for a decent price.

    Your issues are not legal issues, they're moral issues. You have very strong morals, and feel a duty to your old clients. But that is not the case. You released your clients to the new host. The new host needs to step up and take what's theirs and do so properly, or else credit those people so they can go on their merry little way.

  21. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by CEngine
    Little reality check for you.

    Post count says nothing about a persons experience in the hosting industry.

    Just because someone joined yesterday doesn't mean they are new to hosting completely, and WHT is by far NOT a means to judge who's who in the hosting world.

    ------------------------------------------

    Now, what I would do, is stick to your guns, and start charging this new owner some bucks each time you have to fix something, either that, or recommend him to someone who CAN fix things properly for a decent price.

    Your issues are not legal issues, they're moral issues. You have very strong morals, and feel a duty to your old clients. But that is not the case. You released your clients to the new host. The new host needs to step up and take what's theirs and do so properly, or else credit those people so they can go on their merry little way.

    We need a nail & head icon on here please mods



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  22. #47
    This thread makes me want to call my lawyer and tell her how much I appreciate her...because I know I will never be in a mess like this due to her diligence.


  23. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by VertexBilly
    This thread makes me want to call my lawyer and tell her how much I appreciate her...because I know I will never be in a mess like this due to her diligence.

    Oh come on!! That would cost your $50 just for that sentance. You sure that's the reason you would call her?
    It's a Savage Universe out there!
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  24. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by SH-Giles
    Oh come on!! That would cost your $50 just for that sentance. You sure that's the reason you would call her?
    Hmmm.....good call. I will just say it really fast next time she reviews a contract for me.

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