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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
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    India
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    KnownHost: semi-managed vs. fully managed

    Hello friends....

    In the beginning when I shifted from JPC to KnownHost, I was very happy. Their "semi-managed" remained "fully-managed" till the time they felt that I was not going to go anywhere OR they started to find me unwanted.

    Since last 3 months, whenever I raise a support ticket, I'm forwarded to either cpanel forum or any other link. This behavior clearly says, "if you want to stay, get it done yourself, or else...."

    I know, that I host too many domains for a VPS, but they can't say that, coz, I'm neither exceeding their space (though I increased by 10gb, and I'm using only 57%) and bandwidth (only 35gb last month!). So, when anyone

    I have atleast 50 exim failures a day. They tell that they 'do not support mail server'.... did you know that?

    I haven known it in a harder way.

    Today, when GD didn't display my php-images, I was referred to a forum post, which told me to install GD (though it was installed previously). I installed, and httpd failed.

    When I complain, they write back :

    "Apache may fail to start due to a lot of different reasons, what kind of errors do you see? With this information it is really hard to suggest anything useful. Exact error messages can be seeing using the following commands:

    service httpd start

    tail /usr/local/apache/logs/error_log"

    So, before going to knownhost, check if you are hard-core experienced in managing server.

    Hope this helps you guyz....specially the new ones who are thinking of going to knownhost.

    Warm regards

    EssEss
    IndNet.Net - Since 1998
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  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    London UK
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    Most will help at the beginning.

    I prefer to start as you mean to go on.

    If you pay for semi-managed thats what you get.

    If you pay for fully-managed thats what you get.
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  3. #3
    Join Date
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    India
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    Thanks, reiteration....

    Yes, I have learnt that. Let the new users know that too!
    IndNet.Net - Since 1998
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  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
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    Quote Originally Posted by EssEss
    Hello friends....

    In the beginning when I shifted from JPC to KnownHost, I was very happy. Their "semi-managed" remained "fully-managed" till the time they felt that I was not going to go anywhere OR they started to find me unwanted.

    Since last 3 months, whenever I raise a support ticket, I'm forwarded to either cpanel forum or any other link. This behavior clearly says, "if you want to stay, get it done yourself, or else...."

    I know, that I host too many domains for a VPS, but they can't say that, coz, I'm neither exceeding their space (though I increased by 10gb, and I'm using only 57%) and bandwidth (only 35gb last month!). So, when anyone

    I have atleast 50 exim failures a day. They tell that they 'do not support mail server'.... did you know that?

    I haven known it in a harder way.

    Today, when GD didn't display my php-images, I was referred to a forum post, which told me to install GD (though it was installed previously). I installed, and httpd failed.

    When I complain, they write back :

    "Apache may fail to start due to a lot of different reasons, what kind of errors do you see? With this information it is really hard to suggest anything useful. Exact error messages can be seeing using the following commands:

    service httpd start

    tail /usr/local/apache/logs/error_log"

    So, before going to knownhost, check if you are hard-core experienced in managing server.

    Hope this helps you guyz....specially the new ones who are thinking of going to knownhost.

    Warm regards

    EssEss
    Yes, we are a Semi-Managed provider but in many cases we will provide Managed if the customer is willing to learn. In your example you ask us to just fix things without effort on your end. We will not dig down to the root of the mail server to fix issues. That is something all our customers manage or at least attempt to fix on their own. If you require everything done for you as you find the need then you should get fully managed. Keep in mind we do have customers who used to be Managed and now are with us and have absolutely no complaints so this is a situation where it applies to you only.

    Jay
    KnownHost Managed VPS Specialists
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  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    India
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    Hello Jay,

    I was waiting for you reply, since you pm-ed me....

    Managed if the customer is willing to learn. In your example you ask us to just fix things without effort on your end. We will not dig down to the root of the mail server to fix issues.
    No problem. It's mentioned very clearly that you provide 'semi-managed', not 'fully-managed'. No problem in that.

    Just to mention in a very clear way that, 'you do not support mail server issues'. Do you?

    It's not about without efforts. It's about the end-users. I personally feel (maybe you do not) that, when I provide a kind of support to my clients in the first place, I always try to maintain that. If the kind of support I cannot provide, I do not provide at all, even at the first place.

    Your support ppl (specially, Alex) helped me (or any new user) so much, that I never thought it was 'semi-managed'. You provided me '1-month discounted' service thank you for that (currently you're offering 3-months' discounts), again thank you for that, but, PLEASE, make things clear.

    Please try to understand Jay, I'm not blamming you, I just want to make things clear to the new users. You had been very clear in your offer, only I misunderstood it. This is my effort to people of planet of the earth, so that they do not mis-understand. Very noble, isn't it?

    ...so this is a situation where it applies to you only.
    May be to others too... provided how many ppl are really bothering you.

    Warmest regards to you...

    EssEss
    IndNet.Net - Since 1998
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  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    1,922
    Hello,

    We will not spend hours and hours digging thru your mail server to identify spammers, etc. That is just not realistic at the price you pay. At the beginning as with any host you get handheld as it usually involves a migration, configuration, etc. As you get comfortable it is the VPS owners responsibility to take it upon themselves to learn and ask us when needed. We have a team of seasoned professionals and they can help with most things but we need to stay away from supporting things not covered by our support. In each customers experience we may fix issues with Spam but again the example is different each and every time as in many cases the customer spent time and showed us what they tried and it didn't work. With that info we can try to help but when nothing is provided it is more or less a project and my Support guys are specifically told to not entertain such things. This is one reason we provide the service we do as we stick to what we sell and support. Maybe some will want things done for them and one of our guys will fix it but we aren't contracted to do so. I hope you understand. I don't think you can say you have ever been mistreated by KnownHost as we do take customer service serious too.. Am I correct?

    Regarding you making this post to other end users that is your prerogative but your title saying we are Unknown makes no sense at all. How does that pertain to this thread? We take this very seriously and to be quite honest this post surprised me as you even email me directly (I am CEO) and I reply right away. Just seems a bit off but that is okay.

    Jay
    KnownHost Managed VPS Specialists
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  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    New York, NY
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    10,710
    KnownHost was literally giving you the commands that you can copy and paste into your shell. "hard-core" experience required? Hardly.
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  8. #8
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    India
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    Hi Jay...

    Why are you getting angry? Are you? Learn meditation from me. Will you?

    We will not spend hours and hours digging thru your mail server to identify spammers, etc. That is just not realistic at the price you pay.
    No problem. I just wanted to let ppl know that.

    ...it is the VPS owners responsibility to take it upon themselves to learn and ask us when needed.
    Not for all... ' ...the VPS owners responsility'... I completely agree. That's what I want to project by what you mean by 'semi-managed'...VPS owners from KnownHost.

    We have a team of seasoned professionals and they can help with most things but we need to stay away from supporting things not covered by our support.
    Absolutely. Alex is 'super-professional'. What do you mean by 'not covered by our support'? mention that.

    I don't think you can say you have ever been mistreated by KnownHost
    No never. I haven't also. Have I?

    ...but your title saying we are Unknown makes no sense at all.
    ...to you, probably. (you need meditation, you know? I can teach you.) It says 'unknown' to me. Your support ppl are becoming 'unknown' to me. They treat me as a 'third-party' software. I am bothered. Shound't I?

    You are very known. Your domain says 'KnownHost'. You are very known. Super Star. VPS-Star. Aren't you?

    I pray that you become 'better-known', soon.

    Warmest regards

    EssEss
    IndNet.Net - Since 1998
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  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
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    I am not angry at all just a bit surprised. One thing I don't believe in is forums being the place to discuss things being you are a client of ours already. It is one thing if we don't reply to emails but we always do. Have a nice weekend. If you need something let us know.

    Jay
    KnownHost Managed VPS Specialists
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  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
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    they clearly write that they are semimanaged, If you are a novice get get a managed provider or hire a 3P management.
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  11. #11
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    India
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    If you need something let us know.
    I need good support from you. Nothing else. No gift. No discounts. No extra free months.

    "...they clearly write that they are semimanaged"

    I also say that. Where I say that they are 'fully-managed' and offering 'semi-managed'?

    Regards

    EssEss
    IndNet.Net - Since 1998
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  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
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    Quote Originally Posted by EssEss
    I need good support from you. Nothing else. No gift. No discounts. No extra free months.

    "...they clearly write that they are semimanaged"

    I also say that. Where I say that they are 'fully-managed' and offering 'semi-managed'?

    Regards

    EssEss
    We are known for our good support. That has never been questioned nor complained about. We provide everything we advertise which includes 24/7 support.

    Jay
    KnownHost Managed VPS Specialists
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  13. #13
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    India
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    Hello Jay....

    Everyone is not as 'rotton' as I am ...

    I praise when I get something unexpected. I complain when I don't get what I'm expected to.

    Warmest regards

    EssEss
    IndNet.Net - Since 1998
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  14. #14
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    India
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    ...which includes 24/7 support
    Do you provide support from 12pm to 4pm (IST?) (+5:30 GMT?), Jay?

    If, yes, what kind of support? Just saying, 'we'll get back to you shortly?'

    I remember the day, when I deleted a reseller account by mistake, and you took just 45 minutes to put it back. I posted that in WHM too!

    I'm not mad to post you something against you, just like that. Please note that.

    Warm regards

    EssEss
    IndNet.Net - Since 1998
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  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
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    We provide 24/7 support definitely via our helpdesk/email. If something isn't urgent and we are busy we deal with them with priority. I have seen replies to you today within 10-15 minutes regarding issues with GD. At times we are very busy with support tickets so response times may fluctuate but our replies are always dealt with appropriately. If not email me an example and I have no problem looking into it for you. I have done that before for you.

    Jay
    KnownHost Managed VPS Specialists
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  16. #16
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Merville BC
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    EssEss it would appear you have been receiving support above and beyond "semi-managed."

    A semi-managed vps is just that - the company will do their best to help, but they cant hold your hand from beginning to end.

    Personally, I prefer the support I see offered by this company. If I have a problem, I would much rather have an offering of what to try instead of the canned "its fixed now, have a nice day" answer. I like to know what the problem is and how to resolve it on my own if it happens again.

    The thread title is completely off topic from what the real issue is here. Maybe a mod could change it to something more appropriate ?
    Three out of four people make up 75 percent of the population
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  17. #17
    Join Date
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    So, before going to knownhost, check if you are hard-core experienced in managing server.
    Please dont take this as a personal attack EssEss, but I am curious about something....

    Your signature shows you have been in business since 1998. So, umm in eight years you still need a fully managed service?
    Three out of four people make up 75 percent of the population
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  18. #18
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    India
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    Kelownatech....

    I am never said that KnownHost offers 'fully-managed'. What I tried to tell is that it should be 'semi-managed' from beginning to end. Not 'fully-managed' in the beginning and 'no-managed' in the end (unless you post it to WHM).

    If you give 'fully-managed' in the beginning, you get habituated to it. It's wrong I know. That's what I let ppl know.

    One should not misunderstand 'semi-managed' as 'partly-managed'. Semi-managed, what KnownHost mean by, is managed what suits them.

    What KnownHost actually mean by semi-managed is, they expect you to know the manage the server fully. If there's something they think they can do it, that will be managed, else you have to manage.

    I just wanted to make this point clear to new users, that's all.

    By the way, KnownHost does not provide true 24x7 to the best of my knowledge. They reply after 4 hours if you post a ticket in the pick hours of Indian (+5:30hrs GMT) business time. I have faced it multiple times.


    Warm regards

    EssEss
    IndNet.Net - Since 1998
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  19. #19
    Join Date
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    opps sorry....I posted it twice...Can admins pls detele one?

    So, umm in eight years you still need a fully managed service?
    Yes, I need. Any problem?

    EssEss
    IndNet.Net - Since 1998
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  20. #20
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
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    Quote Originally Posted by EssEss
    Kelownatech....

    I am never said that KnownHost offers 'fully-managed'. What I tried to tell is that it should be 'semi-managed' from beginning to end. Not 'fully-managed' in the beginning and 'no-managed' in the end (unless you post it to WHM).

    If you give 'fully-managed' in the beginning, you get habituated to it. It's wrong I know. That's what I let ppl know.

    One should not misunderstand 'semi-managed' as 'partly-managed'. Semi-managed, what KnownHost mean by, is managed what suits them.

    What KnownHost actually mean by semi-managed is, they expect you to know the manage the server fully. If there's something they think they can do it, that will be managed, else you have to manage.

    I just wanted to make this point clear to new users, that's all.

    By the way, KnownHost does not provide true 24x7 to the best of my knowledge. They reply after 4 hours if you post a ticket in the pick hours of Indian (+5:30hrs GMT) business time. I have faced it multiple times.


    Warm regards

    EssEss
    If you want us to post your ticket with us today so we can make it known I will? I mean your ticket has been going on for 5+ hrs with replies within minutes and it is things very obvious not to be covered by even a Managed provider such as web development issues. Note we did login and fix these issues for you.

    Regarding support, we do have 24x7 support. 4 hr delay is very rare but again if it isn't urgent that could happen. I am sure this doesn't happen a lot as this has never once been a complaint. You are the first... Send me examples via PM or email...

    Jay
    Last edited by KnownHost; 11-04-2006 at 02:50 PM.
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  21. #21
    Join Date
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    Location
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    No more PMs or Emails, Jay. I think, I have done that to my extreme before coming to public.

    I will request you to publish the sequence of the ticket raised today evening. I have no problem. Let people also know how your support dept reply when you get exhausted with a user.

    Anyway, if you get pleased, let me sing...

    KnownHost is the best...is the best, is the BEST....

    Happy??
    IndNet.Net - Since 1998
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  22. #22
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    I am lost. I haven't passed any emails or PM's with you. I sent you one earlier and that is it which you already stated about 5 posts ago.

    Regarding the ticket you just asked us to fix a script of yours that uses PHP and GD. We fixed one already and you want us to fix another. We don't support that. I am not replying to this thread anymore as this has become quite childish. Have a nice weekend.

    Jay
    KnownHost Managed VPS Specialists
    Toll Free: (866)-332-9894
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  23. #23
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
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    Jay because of this thread I think I'm going to pick KnownHost. I think this will be the best company for me learn the hosting biz from the inside out.


    Oh yeah and I'm waiting also ThePlayer1960. If you got the info I would like to see it before I make the jump to KnownHost.
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  24. #24
    Join Date
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    mlgrier - go ahead and signup. You definitely won't regret it.
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  25. #25
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    India
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    I don't agree that KnownHost doesn't have qualified tech. Specially Alex is a rare talent.

    What I disagree with KnownHost that they said 'yes' to everything I asked for, and suddenly stated telling me 'ask him'.

    I've signed up with PSM approx 10 hrs back from now. Everytime I tried to contact the tech person through IM, they always say, 'wait for 24 hrs, as we have told'. No special 'welcome' as a new customer. I like that.

    Jay, I think you should very specifically mention what you mean by 'semi-managed'. That will help your customers to mis-understand your company or expect-more-than-you-can-offer.

    'self-managed' makes sense...'you manage your server and don't bother us'. But 'semi-managed' creates confusion as it's neither self-managed nor fully-managed.

    Warm regards

    EssEss
    IndNet.Net - Since 1998
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