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  1. #1

    "Good" oversellers

    So here is my question to many of the people on this forum. Many people talk about how overselling is bad and such but I don't see many bad reviews about some big oversellers like Lunarpages and Midphase.

    So what do you guys think, are these the companies that don't really follow the trend of overselling = crappy host?

  2. #2
    If a host oversells and you have problems then you hear about it. Perhaps Lunarpages and Midphase don't oversell past their limits.

  3. #3
    Lunarpages and Midphase
    They somewhat control their overselling with limited number of other features, add-on domains, mysql databases, etc. If you did a search, you would see most complaints about them are regarding CPU limits, they have a very strict policy on cpu/memory usage.

  4. #4
    Yeah, the greater part of overselling hosting companies controls the usage of CPU, RAM, bandwidth, etc. Otherwisу you'd read bad reviews about them here on the forum.

  5. #5
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    When I was using LunarPages several years ago, the server was slow and crashing hourly.
    But I didn't care a lot, as the site was only for fun and educational.

    At that time, I didn't know about WHT.
    Even if I knew, probably I wouldn't have bothered saying something about that,
    as the security and performances of budget shared hosting was pretty low, in general, at that time,
    and LunarPages wasn't that bad compared to previous experiences I had.


    I guess they improved the services and the existence of good community forum and relatively good follow up done by customer service people may explain why you don't see many unsatisfied people from LunarPages in WHT.
    I mean, people at LunarPages were very nice, when I used them, and it's natural to think that people would complain less with these nice people.

    And I don't pay attention to those "Overselling" chorus.
    They are mostly coming from small and not very competitive hosts too scared by larger competitive hosts.
    Moeover, almost all shared hosts are overselling some part of resources.

    A big host with thousands of machines has huge volume discount effect, and they can offer more for less, naturally.
    What they can"t do is giving a lot of support time/client, because it cost a lot.

    Smaller hosts (often one man 24/7 operation ) can offer more extensive support IF the guys is competent and willing and available, which isn't always the case.
    So, I tend to think it's better to get more resources per the amount of money at larger hosts, generally, and get help in the community forum or site point or by googling.

    I guess we just have to choose a host that matches our requirement, personality, and so on, to be happy.

    And I always think that we should have a backup host.

    More hosts should recommend their client to have a backup hosts, IMO.
    Think about that. It would double the market size.
    And you can combine a larger overseller and smaller overseller (easily found in WHT) to get the benefit of both side and to compare them, if you want.

  6. #6
    If hoster wonna be honest with customers it never make oversell package

  7. #7
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    It there was no overselling, then consumers would be paying alot more for hosting and getting less in return.

    Overselling is a system where you can offer one consumer some of the resouces not used by another consumer.

    It's a good thing done in moderation and fairly.

    Fair meaning, that a host dosn't try to stop you from making normal usage of an account in order to get around deliving you the full amount that they offer. That is where the big problems can be.

  8. #8
    Why do you think so? assume, all of customers will become make full packege. What will you do as a hoster?

  9. #9
    It's no different from say the phone company. By this reasoning the phone company is "overselling" their phone lines. They don't maintain lines and switch ports one-for-one: they have a ratio of users to ports (just like dialups ISPs). Host comapny in effect do the same thing. If they had to carve out space and resources as dedicated to each site, you would be paying far more. Hence the rates for any dedicated service.

    As a note, my service with hostgator and Ipowerweb has been solid for mid-use websites.

  10. #10
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    When was the last time you heard of a host that ran out of disk space ?

    It is based on normal usage patterns, just like a phone company network or a highway or an all day ride ticket at the fair or even a DSL company.

    If your host oversells too much and the service becomes slow and unreliable, then move to another host.

    In the end it is the consumer that benifits and indeed it is the high usage consumer that benifits the most.

    No overselling = higher costs and wasted resources.

  11. #11
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    This reminds me of when I was much younger and moved to a city that had trams.

    You could get these 'All day' tram tickets. I couldn't work out how they could let you ride the tram all day for $2 ! I felt like I should make the most of it and ride the tram to every suburb and get my moneys worth ! Point is I didn't, and no one else does, they use what they need and that is all. If a few people want to do a big tram tour, then they can without any problems.

    If the transport company factored into their pricing the fact that people would ride the tram all day with their all day ticket, then they would need to build more trams, more tracks, employ more drivers and the price would be alot higher. Also the trams would all be empty !


  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by yagigain
    This reminds me of when I was much younger and moved to a city that had trams.

    You could get these 'All day' tram tickets. I couldn't work out how they could let you ride the tram all day for $2 ! I felt like I should make the most of it and ride the tram to every suburb and get my moneys worth ! Point is I didn't, and no one else does, they use what they need and that is all. If a few people want to do a big tram tour, then they can without any problems.

    If the transport company factored into their pricing the fact that people would ride the tram all day with their all day ticket, then they would need to build more trams, more tracks, employ more drivers and the price would be alot higher. Also the trams would all be empty !

    This is very nice example

    No offense but in my opinion 99% of those people who are against overselling are resellers using resellers hosting plans of companies which doesn't allow overselling. If they pay $25/mo for 5 GB webspace and 75 GB bandwidth how they can compete to hosts which offer 10+ GB webspace and 100+ GB bandwidth for $5 - $10/mo?

  13. #13
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    The problem with overselling isn't actually the overselling part. If you oversell a little bit to benefit your higher end customers there is no issue and no one would even notice.

    The problem is when you start to become too greedy and oversell too much. Then your users start to notice that the server is getting slower or if you get too many high end users on one server the server runs out of space. And other stupid management issues that happen. I've heard of overselling companies kicking people out because their sites are using too much processing power, even though the only way to get your full paid for 1000gb of transfer is using all that power.

    So they are saying, here take this whole cake for you alone to eat for this month, then when you start eating the cake and you eat too much they decide that you had to much and say you can't have it cause you have to share.

    It's not about this or that it's plainly false advertising. Now the risks of this happening to you is far greater if you choose a host that oversells than if you choose one that doesn't. That is what's wrong with overselling.

    You can't tell someone that they can have 500gb of bandwidth for $5 but you better not use it all or you're gonna be in trouble!
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  14. #14
    I absolutely agree with you. The company must have the overselling under control. Web host with a few client should be very carefull with overselling. As the client base grows you can analyze your clients needs and maybe oversell more.

  15. #15
    Most business-models rely on what is known as "over-selling", why should web-hosting be any different?!

    With that said, it all depends on what you need. Narrow it down to a few competitors and search WHT and also google their name, do a second search with "hostingcompany sucks" too.


    Remember that shared hosting is only for low CPU-intensive sites.

  16. #16
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    There is a conflict with heavy oversellers and shared hosting. Shared hosting is for low cpu-intensive sites right?...well u just said it is. Now if a hosting company gave me 500gb of transfer and I uploaded a static site with maybe a few downloadable files etc. That would be a low cpu-intensive site, why? If enough people visit my site and use all 500gb, is it still a low cpu intensive site? I believe not and that is what hosts are getting away with. That is selling something and advertising something else!

    If you have a business model then fine, you probably thought the whole thing through and planned accordingly. But a lot of these hosts who oversell don't have any idea what they're doing and are just trying their luck. Having a business plan assumes that you have a very well thought out and sustainable business going that won't be affected negatively by growth. If they were carefully planned they make provision for more users and give a rough idea of when you're gonna need more server etc.

    Not just add more users and oversell till the server falls over and then realising that you need a new server but can't afford one because you oversold too much.

    So ultimately overselling on a large scale and shared hosting are conflicting idea's. You are promoting high end use on servers meant for many low end sites. So you're basically setting youself up for failure if you don't plan really carefully.
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  17. #17
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    bullfrog - that is a great post and one that encapsulates everything in context.

    Notice everyone: bear this in mind when choosing a hosting provider.

    It's not what you can see and read but, what you can't see and read that matters with alot of hosting providers 'adverts'.

    Great post
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  18. #18
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    On the flip side, you can argue that technology is advancing all the time. Network connectivity is cheap, hard drives are cheap (and getting bigger) and processors/memory that allow you to push larger amounts of traffic are getting quicker all the time.

    People frown upon overselling and they are entitled to their own opinion. It does not, however, automatically result in poor service.
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  19. #19
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    It doesn't automatically result in bad service but it does increase the risk
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  20. #20
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    mdrussell is correct, overselling in not always bad per-say, but there are some providers that you really have to watch out for. I think that oversold plans, really are created to look GREAT for the customer in many cases, but that doesn't always mean DANGER There has been alot of good things said about alot of oversold providers on WHT alone...not to mention other review sites.
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  21. #21
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    well another example is the backing of success from the buffet industry
    All you can eat for 9.95 , well when your starving you say " holly batman" you run in and grab your plate and start eating, after you finish a normal meal size , you cant eat " use " anymore, this is a weird example but the same idea, hey jim, heres 30 gigs space, and 50 gigs bandwith for 14.95 per month , jims getting the buffett feeling but wont consume even close to limits,

  22. #22
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    hahaha, thats great! Never thought of it like that...but thats awesome.
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  23. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by bullfrog
    There is a conflict with heavy oversellers and shared hosting. Shared hosting is for low cpu-intensive sites right?...well u just said it is. Now if a hosting company gave me 500gb of transfer and I uploaded a static site with maybe a few downloadable files etc. That would be a low cpu-intensive site, why? If enough people visit my site and use all 500gb, is it still a low cpu intensive site? I believe not and that is what hosts are getting away with. That is selling something and advertising something else!
    As I understand it, a webserver configured in the proper way can serve a huge amount of static files without a major effect on CPU-resources.


    If you have a business model then fine, you probably thought the whole thing through and planned accordingly.
    Yes, I agree with you totally on this. Which is why there are a few so called "over-selling" companies within the webhosting-game that sticks the full course and a big deal of hosting companies that simply disappear with no trace or whom are kicking users that get near the 10% mark of what they were promised in form of bandwidth.


    But a lot of these hosts who oversell don't have any idea what they're doing and are just trying their luck.
    I agree there too.


    Having a business plan assumes that you have a very well thought out and sustainable business going that won't be affected negatively by growth. If they were carefully planned they make provision for more users and give a rough idea of when you're gonna need more server etc.

    Not just add more users and oversell till the server falls over and then realising that you need a new server but can't afford one because you oversold too much.
    That is why the bigger hosts are able to over-sell to a greater extent than the smaller ones - they simply have the resources and the technical know-how to do this.


    So ultimately overselling on a large scale and shared hosting are conflicting idea's.
    I disagree with you there.


    You are promoting high end use on servers meant for many low end sites. So you're basically setting youself up for failure if you don't plan really carefully.
    As long as we differ on CPU-consumption and bandwidth-consumption, I think we have a consensus on this issue.

  24. #24

    A question for the hosting-reps that read/write in this thread

    Do you have separate web, mail and file-servers and do you use fibrechannel - like for exampel the often criticized Dreamhost does in order to get a big scale production environment?

    Do you buy in equipment on a scale that you get better deals because of the the sheer volume of your purchases?

    If you run a small operation, you can't keep the same margins as the big dragons - that is natural. Therefor, the bigger webhosting companies out there can oversell to a greater extent than the smaller ones.


    With that said, I am not arguing against anyone who is having a dynamically loaded site with a high(er) CPU-usage for the same amount of bandwidth as a static site saying that they should purchase a dedicated server.

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