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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    New Hampshire
    Posts
    735

    Bad experience with LayeredTech

    I've been with LT about 6 months now and have already had 2 outages that lasted hours and multiple times where they had issues with the networks causing high latency. In my experience so far, LT does not keep their customers up to date when issues arise(Check forums for proof).

    I've had reboot tickets 'forgotten' about. Come on, over an hour to reboot a server?

    What finally pushed me over the edge to write this is yesterday I received an abuse report E-mail about a phishing site. (6 hour server disconnect with no action). I removed the account and replied to the E-mail 20 minutes after receiving the notice.

    LayeredTech then disconnected the server around 1AM this morning for failure to take action. Before disconnecting the server LT neither CHECKED the website to see if action WAS taken nor picked up the phone to make a quick phone call to let someone know what was going on. These 2 things take a minute to do and in my opinion would have saved the relationship.

    After E-mailing LT that I did infact take action immediately after receiving the E-mail and that I want my server reconnected immediately.... I get a generic response E-mail saying my server is reconnected for cleanup and that I must respond within 2 hours of action taken. Instead of a 'Sorry, next time we'll check before we disconnect' or any type of response they ignore my E-mail and respond with that generic one.

    I will now be looking for a new provider, I just wanted to post this on WHT so people looking for reviews can see how their policies on abuse work.

    -Corey

  2. #2
    Thank god I have not selected them...
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  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    785
    Corey,

    I have reviewed your abuse ticket and no where in it do I see a reply from you stating the site was removed. We did not get a reply from you until 7:00 AM this morning after your host was offline for 7 hours. We did allow you a total of 8 hours to resolve the issue and reply back to us and that was an extenstion of 2 hours from the default 6 given for this type of abuse issue. We notified you at

    Initial Notice Sent:
    Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2006 16:52:38 -0500

    Sent a heads up the host was now being disconnected:
    Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2006 23:08:16 -0500

    Disconnected your host for no reply:
    Date: Fri Oct 27 2006 12:05AM

    As I stated in my ticket reply our abuse staff handle several hundred issues per day per staff member and you can not expect them to constantly check on the status of the issue on your host to see if the site was removed before taking any action.

    We use the ticket system only for all abuse issues as it provides as an audit trail for all issues and allows us to track the times for each issue and how long they are taken to be resolved. We do not offer phone support or call out to clients about issues found on their hosts.

    I am sorry but we did everything we could in this issue including allowing you to have 2 additional hours to resolve the issue and we did not get any replies from you until the next morning. As we only provide 100% self managed servers we expect our clients to resolve these issues in a timely fashion and reply back to us with the details of how the issue was resolved so we can close out the ticket on our end and alert any parties that where waiting for the details.

    This is all I have to say about this matter and if you wish to discuss it further you can re-open the ticket regarding this issue.

    Regards,

    Jeremy

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    New Hampshire
    Posts
    735
    I think you fail to acknowledge that it took me posting this here to not get a 'generic' reply from you. I only just now received an actual response from you about this, and AFTER you read my thread on WHT. The response should have came when I replied with the issue not after reading a complaint on a public board.

    Again, like I said. I replied to your E-mail saying that I fixed the problem like I always have. I don't care if you gave me 2 days to respond, I did it 20 minutes after the E-mail. So in my mind the issue was resolved. Whether you got that e-mail or not I could care less. I have it in my sent E-mail, I'm looking at it right now.

    My issue is that you can't take 1 minute to check if the offending site is offline, or 1 minute to make a quick phone call before disconnecting a customer's server. This is not my primary server with my business accounts on it and is not monitored for uptime 24/7. I did not realize it was disconnected by you until I woke up this morning, that is when I E-mailed you.

    My problem is with your lack of customer care, I want a company who can take a minute out of their day to make their customer's happy. Apparently Layered Tech is unable to do that.

    Thanks for the actual response,

    -Corey

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Torbay - UK
    Posts
    23
    LT have not been good at responding to tickets in all the time I have been with them.

    I had problems the other day I asked for a KVM over IP and waited the two hours and nothing. No kvm and only one reply to my ticket asking for a server number.

    I provided this and waited but nothing. Why can't they understand that keeping clients informed is important.

    After seven hours I still did not have a workable KVM so I had to get them to reinstall the whole OS. In all it took over 12 hours to do something that should have taken only 3. With the time difference it meant I had to stay up all night waiting on LT. Plus i had clients on the server who were not happy about so much downtime.

    I appreciate they had problems, but why not keep us informed about things like that. The only way I could get replies from them was to open new tickets as replying to existing ones (as instructed) seemed to be ignored. All we, as customers, want is to know what is happening. Ignoring customers is never good for business.

    I wonder if they will have the cheek to charge me for the reload after wasting so much of my time?

    At least the network is good. In a year and a half I have noticed no downtime

    Alan

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Indianapolis
    Posts
    77
    what kinda machine you got with them, I have heard some good and also some bad things about them

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Posts
    82
    Wow. LT disconnected a server without bothering to see if the phishing site was still live or not? There is no excuse for that, IMO. All it takes is one click on the link in the abuse report to check it.

  8. #8
    LT is very responsive in disconnecting server
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  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    82
    I think for LT people checking the existance of a website is much difficult than disconnecting & reconnecting a server.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    785
    Quote Originally Posted by scottc
    Wow. LT disconnected a server without bothering to see if the phishing site was still live or not? There is no excuse for that, IMO. All it takes is one click on the link in the abuse report to check it.
    How are we supposed to know if we check the URL of the phish site has been changed slightly or the httpd service is down or the page could not be found for various other reasons but is still live leaving us with a false positive. We are not looking for the specific URL to go down but the site content causing the problems to be fully removed.

    There are many ways that a check could proof a false positive and we require the server owner to confirm the issue has been removed and then reply to the open policy enforcement notice.

    We can not verify the sites are gone without having confirmation of the server owner that they have removed the offending files from the host and resolved the issue locally. Once we have been provided those details we follow up to confirm the site / files / content / etc has been removed and resolve the issue.

    We provide 100% self managed servers and expect the owners of the hosts to keep them secure and do whatever is needed on their part to vette out problems like this. This includes communicating with our staff when the issue has been resolved. We are not looking for much beyond a reply showing the files have been removed and acknowledge of the issue being resolved in a specific time frame which is stated in the notice sent out.

    Thanks,

    Jeremy

  11. #11
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    singapore
    Posts
    455
    Based on my experience, LT abuse team is quite reasonable & responsive.

    I received phishing & spam complain few months back. An abuse ticket was opened and I was given 12 hours to resolve the issue. I replied the ticket to let them know that I was aware of this complain and requested another 24 hours extension.

    Did you include a statement to let LT acknowledge your email when they received it?
    current and satisfied customer of softlayer.com and webnx.com

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Tipton, IN
    Posts
    417
    Layeredtech's staff does have some problems periodically in responding to tickets in a timely manor (well, atleast they keep their 24 hour mark most of the time), but up-right, I would say they do handle abuse very well.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    New Hampshire
    Posts
    735
    I think the major problem is that E-mail is not 100% reliable. I did reply to the E-mail, whether it got lost on my server or somewhere along the way to them I don't know. So now I feel I have to login to my support account daily to make sure there are no abuse tickets open. What if they send me an E-mail and I never get it? My server just gets disconnected.

    I think relying on an E-mail for something as serious as disconnecting a server is not a smart idea. Especially when that server could be how a person makes their living. I think LT should re-evaluate their methods of contacting their customers before disconnecting a server.

    A 1 minute phone call would have kept you a customer.

    -Corey

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Orange County, CA
    Posts
    338
    Nowadays most cellphones have SMS or email capability. I suggest customers create a special email address at a reliable external server (like Yahoo) that can forward to their cellphones and normal email address.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Minneapolis, MN
    Posts
    1,648
    Quote Originally Posted by jdhf
    I think the major problem is that E-mail is not 100% reliable. I did reply to the E-mail, whether it got lost on my server or somewhere along the way to them I don't know. So now I feel I have to login to my support account daily to make sure there are no abuse tickets open. What if they send me an E-mail and I never get it?
    .. but you DID get the email. I'm guessing LT would have pursued alternate actions had the email bounced or in some way indicated that it was undeliverable. They tell you at signup to make sure that *.layeredtech.com emails are whitelisted in your spam filter, so if your MTA accepts the email there's no reason you shouldn't see it in your inbox.

    I'm not sure why the response didn't make it back, but if you relayed it through one of your servers you should be able to pull the log to find the message queue ID which will help track it down.

    Your whole argument about email being unreliable is not helping your case though. If you are so confident that e-mail is not a reliable means of communication, why didn't you log into the ticket system to post your reply directly?
    Eric Spaeth
    Enterprise Network Engineer :: Hosting Hobbyist :: Master of Procrastination
    "The really cool thing about facts is they remain true regardless of who states them."

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    82
    Email received or not...

    Action taken or not...

    Reality is LT disconnected the server in which there was no offending site at the time of disconnection.
    Last edited by ramcjbin; 10-29-2006 at 02:47 PM.

  17. #17
    Just a general comment on LT and not on this specific case...

    LT does enforce a very strict abuse policy which can sometimes be quite frustrating, especially it's 6 hour server disconnection notices. Personally I think this is something that should be changed, as many people may receive this notice whilst they are sleeping and when they then wake up in the morning they find their server is offline!

    Having said that, it is understandable that since all their servers are unmanaged, the oweness is upon the server owner to take the necessary action to prevent the server being used for spam, phishing emails or similar.

    However, having used LT for over 2 years now for a number of servers for various projects, I can honestly say that I am very happy with their service, their network uptime, and their prices. There have been occasions where things screw up and you get really ticked off, such as a number of hardware faults I experienced all within a same period. But things happen, and overall in my opinion they are one of the best US based self-managed server companies, and I'd encourage anyone who has doubts to try them out and judge for yourself.

    Regards,
    Suhail.
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  18. #18
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Torbay - UK
    Posts
    23
    Quote Originally Posted by suhailc
    LT does enforce a very strict abuse policy which can sometimes be quite frustrating, especially it's 6 hour server disconnection notices. Personally I think this is something that should be changed, as many people may receive this notice whilst they are sleeping and when they then wake up in the morning they find their server is offline!
    To be honest I think I would be just as strict if I was renting servers. I have had dealings with the abuse team and they have always been professional.

    The supoort team, however, are another matter. I think they use 'canned' responces too much (else all emails are written by the same person).

    The personal touch is missing. But then I guess they don't need it. At the prices they charge, they will always have clients. If someone leaves LT a new client will take their place in a few days. I bet their CHURN rate is quite high though.

    Alan

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Chicago, Illinois
    Posts
    143
    0 problem with LT here. I had my server rebooted 3 times last night, each reboot was done in under 5 minutes.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Scotland, UK
    Posts
    2,549
    Quote Originally Posted by spaethco
    .. but you DID get the email. I'm guessing LT would have pursued alternate actions had the email bounced or in some way indicated that it was undeliverable. They tell you at signup to make sure that *.layeredtech.com emails are whitelisted in your spam filter, so if your MTA accepts the email there's no reason you shouldn't see it in your inbox.
    What about the other way around and LT's MTA rejects the email? What if LT do not send to the correct address, this has happened before with a disconnection following LT's mistake. How can you take action on something that never reaches you due to a staff error?

    Theres no defense in the matter, you can have thousands of complaints an hour for all I care, if you cannot take 1 minute out of your time to help a customer then why bother at all?

    The argument about false positives is a poor one to say the least, you could atleast provide another generic message with a few hours extension if it appears to be down(removed) which gives the customer time to respond that it actually has been removed.

    Nobody is asking for managed services, all they are asking for is a bit of common courtesy to your customers.

    Almost all of layedtechs problems are down to staff. It's very rare to find anyone with more than 10 servers who are actually delighted with the staff.
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  21. #21
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    82
    Quote Originally Posted by Scott.Mc
    What about the other way around and LT's MTA rejects the email? What if LT do not send to the correct address, this has happened before with a disconnection following LT's mistake. How can you take action on something that never reaches you due to a staff error?

    Theres no defense in the matter, you can have thousands of complaints an hour for all I care, if you cannot take 1 minute out of your time to help a customer then why bother at all?

    The argument about false positives is a poor one to say the least, you could atleast provide another generic message with a few hours extension if it appears to be down(removed) which gives the customer time to respond that it actually has been removed.

    Nobody is asking for managed services, all they are asking for is a bit of common courtesy to your customers.

    Almost all of layedtechs problems are down to staff. It's very rare to find anyone with more than 10 servers who are actually delighted with the staff.
    Exactly said.

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Torbay - UK
    Posts
    23
    Quote Originally Posted by Scott.Mc
    Almost all of layedtechs problems are down to staff. It's very rare to find anyone with more than 10 servers who are actually delighted with the staff.
    After the reply I just received from them I have to agree with that!

    LAYEREDTECH EVER HEARD OF GOOD WILL!

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