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  1. #1
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    Angry Jodohost TOS - is it industry practice ?

    hi,

    yesterday i got an email from jodohost billing stating that i had a negative balance of $4.95.

    i had taken an annual account from them (they offered 5% discount) in Aug 2005 and have not been using the service on a regular basis.

    come aug 2006 and apparently they've renewed my account and started demanding money from me since yesterday. after sending some emails to the billing and sales department and explaining to them that as a normal business practice if i was interested in renewing the account i'd have notified them but since i did not notify them to renew my account, they should have closed the account.

    however, as per their sales/billing team the jodohost TOS mentions that unless a customer explicitly cancels the service, they'll keep billing.

    is this an industry practice ? when a customer has paid for the annual plan why do they need to notify after the end of the year to cancel the service ?

    for example if i compare this to my newpaper vendor, i subscribe to a couple of papers on an annual basis and they call me 2 months before the subscription is over to check if i'm interested in renewing it. i find this small local newspaper vendor more professional and ethical in his/her dealing then jodohost.


    regards.

    yashesh bhatia.
    free falling

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by yasheshb
    however, as per their sales/billing team the jodohost TOS mentions that unless a customer explicitly cancels the service, they'll keep billing.

    is this an industry practice ? when a customer has paid for the annual plan why do they need to notify after the end of the year to cancel the service ?
    Yes, that's how every company I know of charges their clients. If you don't cancel the account yourself, they'll assume you're going to continue using their services.

    As for your newspaper comparison, I don't see why they'd do that. If you don't cancel something, you're still subscribed.

    Does your TV/Internet provider call you every month to make sure you're still interested in their services? Of course not.

  3. #3
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    interesting take .. annual subscription v/s blanket subscription

    well, i subcribe and prepay an annual subscription with my ISP they send reminders way before the expiration date and call up to check if i want to renew the service for the next year.

    ditto with my medical/auto insurance premium, i pay upfront for a year and the moment i dont pay there's no mediclaim/autoclaim for me.

    yashesh
    free falling

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by yasheshb
    well, i subcribe and prepay an annual subscription with my ISP they send reminders way before the expiration date and call up to check if i want to renew the service for the next year.

    ditto with my medical/auto insurance premium, i pay upfront for a year and the moment i dont pay there's no mediclaim/autoclaim for me.
    I sincerely doubt what you claim above.
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by FHDave
    I sincerely doubt what you claim above.
    I was about to quote that and say "sure," but I'm really not in the debate mood right now.

  6. #6
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    Nothing wrong with this practice, you should have cancelled.
    Like passive recurring revenue you can retire on?
    You focus on building your brand, we handle all support, billing, and more.
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  7. #7
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    Not sure where you live, but here in Sweden most people do the payment automatically for ordered services - like: phone, internet, electricity, rent, etc. If you pay for a monthly / yearly service / subscription by credit card my best bet is that 99% of the companies will continue to charge you until you cancel with them.
    -Mr Bister

  8. #8
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    Huh... where am I again?
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    Most places use a billing system that sends out invoices and reminders x days before a renewal date/charge date. Did they send these? If so, you had x days to cancel. If they use the h-sphere billing system then it may not do a lead time like this -- I haven't seen a lead time for such actions.
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  9. #9
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    You should have read the TOS.
    He who hates correction will die. --Proverbs 15:10
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  10. #10
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    If you agreed to the TOS - you should have read the TOS. It's that simple. In all lease aggrements that are subscription based you are always liable to cancel the account. It is not up for the provider to hold your hand and ask each and every month if you want to renew or not.

    Uggg - and then you come to WHT to try and slam them. That cracks me up. Bah Bye.


  11. #11
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    I won't go as far as saying every provider, but I think it's pretty much industry wide that they send out domain renewals, but will automatically renew your hosting account. Maybe something like this;
    The Billing Period will renew itself automatically on termination unless the Customers chooses to cancel his or her Service Account
    Basically you need to actually cancel your subscription prior to the end of your contract.
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  12. #12
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    yasheshb

    JodoHost is a very reputed company, otherwise also any company as a sincere hosting company will not terminate a hosted account just because the client had not told to do so at the en dof the term.

    You are saying so as that account was not important for you. Think about what if your hostinmg account had been critically important for you, and your service provider terminated it at the term end because renewal slipped your mind (there could be many reasons for it).

    You can not compare News Paper/Insurance subscription with Hosting, they are altogether different.

    If I had been in your place I wouldn't have bahsed my provider here just for this, instead I would have talked to them to settle the matter.
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by yasheshb
    come aug 2006 and apparently they've renewed my account and started demanding money from me since yesterday.
    Hi,

    We never demanded money from you. Our system emailed you stating you had a negative balance and to clear it or risk account suspension. You decided to cancel your account and never paid those charges. We didn't have a credit card on record for you so we never automatically charged you either.

    Even if we did charge your credit card, and you cancelled, you would have received a received a pro-rated refund (according to our TOS):

    The Customer will be eligible for refund if he or she chose Credit card, PayPal or 2Checkout as their buying Mode during registration. Refund will be made for unused months only of the current Billing period after deducting a Refund Charge of $10.00. If however the customer's registration date is less than 30 days from the cancellation date, the customer will receive a full refund.
    Good luck with your next host. we have a very liberal billing policy.
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  14. #14
    And this sort of thing happens when people: a) don't read their fine prints, and b)
    have unrealistic expectations. Look at the OP's analogies.

    Can you honestly, seriously, and realistically expect every provider in every kind of
    business to do the same or similar practice? Ask yourself that, and try to imagine
    what it's like being on their side of the fence.

    Now if you don't care how they go about it and only want results, then expect a
    whole lot more problems down the road when doing business with someone. You
    might find later on many will refuse to have anything to do with you.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
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    I think what Jodohost has done is fair, if it their TOS didn't state that they'll automatically renew your account unless you cancel, then the situation would be completely different. But you have agreed to their TOS and you should of read it when you signed up.

    Mini
    Last edited by Mini; 10-18-2006 at 01:43 AM.

  16. #16
    Jodohost uses an automated billing solution - they, nor any other host is going to call you up or ask you if you want to renew. The will issue the invoice, process the payment and if you wish to cancel, the good ones (like JodoHost) will issue a refund.

    As for this comment....

    ditto with my medical/auto insurance premium, i pay upfront for a year and the moment i dont pay there's no mediclaim/autoclaim for me.
    You cannot relate insurance to hosting services. Certainly an insurance company will not be willing to pay out a million dollar liability or insurance claim if you havent kept your policy up-to-date. They do not do this out of a courtesy for you - they do this to reduce the number of claims they must pay out.

  17. #17
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    I know if I assumed all my customers that prepaid for Quarterly or Yearly were to cancel at the end of their paid term I would have a lot of upset customers. I always "Assume" they are going to renew this is why I send an invoice 10 days prior to their due date if they dispute anything within those 10 days to cancel we do if not we expect a renewal payment.

    I think its in the right mind of both parties to make sure you 1.) read the TOS and 2.) The host has a measure in place to avoid this problem (Like I do, sending invoice early and allow for dispute or cancelation).
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  18. #18
    i like pre paid better way in hosting i dont agree with auto cash with hosting i think a better way is email the owner and say pay is who and from to keep ya acc if email close they got to delete services invice

  19. #19
    Not every host does this, but some hope you won't cancel based on TOS so they may charge you. I think it is bad business, as customers should be receiving emails to remind them to renew instead. If a customer is happy with what you offer, they would probably renew anyway, without being stuck into paying more. Always read the TOS and ask client services if you have a question beforehand.

    Chris
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by VertuHost
    Not every host does this, but some hope you won't cancel based on TOS so they may charge you.
    Chris, I don't follow what you're saying here? Are you saying some hosts have it in their TOS that you can't cancel or must cancel by doing some kind of secret handshake with a stranger on a dark alley?
    -Steven | u2-web, LLC - Clustered Shared Hosting
    "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it" -Aristotle

  21. #21
    must cancel by doing some kind of secret handshake with a stranger on a dark alley?
    LOL - I almost fell off my chair when I read that - thanks, needed a good chuckle today

  22. #22
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    My pleasure. A laugh a day keeps the therapist away.
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    "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it" -Aristotle

  23. #23
    I can't believe this guy actually posted this
    Regards to Jodo

  24. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by steven99
    Chris, I don't follow what you're saying here? Are you saying some hosts have it in their TOS that you can't cancel or must cancel by doing some kind of secret handshake with a stranger on a dark alley?
    No, it means exactly what it says. Read the TOS and cancel accordingly... Some of these hosts hope client won't, so they can bill again.

    chris
    Christopher J Smallwood
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  25. #25
    You can't just assume things these days, unless it's by the book, you'll get caught out.

  26. #26
    [QUOTE=CartikaHosting]Jodohost uses an automated billing solution - they, nor any other host is going to call you up or ask you if you want to renew. The will issue the invoice, process the payment and if you wish to cancel, the good ones (like JodoHost) will issue a refund.

    Call? No, but a friendly email works as a reminder. I don't use automatic renewals, unless the client specifically requests it. I think it is a shady way to do business.

    Chris
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  27. #27
    They "hope" the client won't? Why do you believe hosting to be any different than any other service? If I do not contact my telephone company and instruct them to disconnect my service, I fully expect to receive a bill from them. If I fail to tell a magazine that I no longer want their publication, I expect them to bill me. The same applies to my cable provider, my ISP, the gas company, the cleaning service, and of course my web host. Unless they tell me with specificity that I must renew at the end of each billable period, it is presumed that they will continue to provide service to me unless I initiate cancellation.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by VertuHost
    Call? No, but a friendly email works as a reminder. I don't use automatic renewals, unless the client specifically requests it. I think it is a shady way to do business.
    That's not the way it works in the real world.

    I would be overwhelmed if I had to tell my cell phone operator, my internet provider, my cable provider, electricity, water, credit cards, bank accounts, etc to renew me every month.. And give them authorization to charge me.
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  29. #29
    No, it means exactly what it says. Read the TOS and cancel accordingly... Some of these hosts hope client won't, so they can bill again.
    WOW - how about the customers that dont want to risk having their accounts cancelled or suspended for explicitly not renewing...

    This whole argument is absurd - if a customer gets renewed and wants to cancel - ask the host to cancel the account - you will get your account cancelled and your money returned..

    Imagine the threads you would see if a host didnt do this -

    "I was on vacation.... or I was sick in the hospital... or, I didnt get my renewal email... etc - and the host cancelled my account"

    Seriously man - think about what you are saying here

  30. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by VertuHost
    I don't use automatic renewals, unless the client specifically requests it. I think it is a shady way to do business.

    Chris
    In your terms, it is implied - though not specifically stated - that you will renew client contracts for a period of one year once the initial period has expired. I see nowhere that you explicitly indicate to your clients that they must request renewal. The question I would post to you is this: how exactly do you inform your clients that the service you are offering is nonrenewing and requires interaction on their part in order to continue?

    Based on your comment above, can we take that to mean you believe the standards of service-based offerings by utilities and their automatic renewals are "shady"? Do you contact all the companies from whom you contract services in order to request renewal? Such as, perhaps, whoever provides your hosting/upstream services? If they perform automatic renewals, one wonders why you would choose to do business with them if you consider that action to be shady.

  31. #31
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    Nearly all hosting providers handle this in the same way, via billing panel. Clients are invoiced prior to due (or on their due date in some cases) and term is renewed automatically unless cancelled prior. I seriously am at a loss for why on wht we're even seeing a thread about this (as this is one of the most common practices in the industry).
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  32. #32
    We can argue 'til we're black and blue whether this practice is shady or not. The
    important thing is people have to check rather than assume, and it's up to the
    hosts how to do business.

    You don't like how they conduct business, then don't deal with them. Simple.

  33. #33
    And that's entirely the point here: here we have a host who says he doesn't autorenew except on request, calling the practice "shady". Yes, his potential clients would have to check. Yet he provides no indication that the account will not autorenew. Therefore, my question stands. How exactly are potential clients to know they must manually renew to get around such a "shady" practice, and if he thinks it is so shady, why does he do business with his provider, who presumably renews his contract automatically?

    Different business practices are fine with me. I dislike hypocrisy.

  34. #34
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    Call? No, but a friendly email works as a reminder. I don't use automatic renewals, unless the client specifically requests it. I think it is a shady way to do business.
    Do you really request to your customer to tell you that they want to renew their account month to month?.
    If you don't mind that I ask you, how many customers do you have at this moment?
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  35. #35
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    as above post siad there re-new auto still we cancel why not domain renew auto, only when we pre pay register do

  36. #36
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    yeah.. i've subscribed to a newspaper
    http://www.dnaindia.com/
    with a prepaid annual subscription for Rs 199. It's up for renewal in march and i got a call last month if i wanted to renew it.

    also i have annual prepaid a/c with my isp http://web.my7star.com/index.html for Rs 12,000 and they also send renewal notice / call a month prior to the expirationto check if we are interested in renewing.

    so it's just my perspective that for a prepaid a/c, once the lifespan is over it should be cancelled rather than automatically subscribe because the intent of the consumer is to use that many credits only.

    yashesh.
    free falling

  37. #37
    Hey, ultimately it is about customer service, screw the TOS, it is about making the customer happy, and if the customer did not read the TOS and if the customer is asking for Money back, they should honor it.

    If they are being jerks about it, tell them that you will contact the local BBB and AG and file a formal complaint regarding this matter, by law they need to send you a notification email that they are going to renew your account, and when I saw by law, I mean, CC regulations, and amendments to the consumer protection laws.

    If this does not work, which it will, file the complaint and let them get a letter from these consumer protection agencies.

    It's all about the customer!
    AY

  38. #38
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    Does your telephone operator call you asking if you want to renew each month?
    Does your cell phone operator do the same?

    You don't change your cell phone or telephone services every month or every year. if you do change it, you cancel your old service.

    The same thing applies for web hosting. Its a critical service that people depend on. They don't cancel unless their business is shutting down or they want to change their service.

    Its different from newspapers. And honestly, DNAIndia is the first newspaper I hear of that calls you up asking if you want to renew. that is probably because they aren't able to charge you automatically (credit card), hence they are forced to call to seek payment (they do not expect cancellation).

  39. #39
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    it seems on line ;)
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    The automatic renewal for long periods should be optional and it is a matter of courtesy a reminder message. But monthly reminders might be not desirable
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  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by smalljellyfish
    Hey, ultimately it is about customer service, screw the TOS, it is about making the customer happy, and if the customer did not read the TOS and if the customer is asking for Money back, they should honor it.

    If they are being jerks about it, tell them that you will contact the local BBB and AG and file a formal complaint regarding this matter, by law they need to send you a notification email that they are going to renew your account, and when I saw by law, I mean, CC regulations, and amendments to the consumer protection laws.

    If this does not work, which it will, file the complaint and let them get a letter from these consumer protection agencies.

    It's all about the customer!
    AY

    Please read this post:
    http://webhostingtalk.com/showpost.p...7&postcount=13

    And honestly, I would never knowingly host a customer like you.
    If you expect a host to bend their policies because you are the customer and you are supreme, that isn't going to work. Yes we do bend our policies for customers when and where we can. But definately not when threatened.

    And honestly if this customer or you threatened to take us to the BBB or the court of law, we would respond appropriately to the BBB or in a court of law

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