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  1. #1
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    Thumbs down IE7 Final Release before end of October as Windows Update!

    It will be a high priority update for those of you who do not know and will be installed automatically for those of you who have that feature turned on.

    To prevent this and stay on IE6 go here.

    Unreal!! -- They are basically trying to force ppl to IE7!!!





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  2. #2
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    Ya, we are going to have to hold off a bit. So this tool is going to help alot.

  3. #3
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    I think its thier way of saying they arent trying to force ppl to IE7 (offering this tool)





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  4. #4
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    Why would a home user want to disable the update?

    I can see why a business user would, but not a home user.
    Steve

  5. #5
    What' so bad about IE7?
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaroNet-Hesham
    What' so bad about IE7?
    Meh, it's no worse than IE6. Barely better when it comes to page rendering, but they're promising some good security updates. So that's...promising.

    I think what's so bad isn't IE7. It's that everyone's computers will automatically download new software to their computers automatically. There's a big difference between an OS automatically downloading updates versus automatically downloading and installing new applications using an opt-out policy, instead of opt-in. That's pretty invasive!

    I'm glad I have XP set to notify me of updates so I can see what's being installed, instead of updating itself automatically.
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  7. #7
    I think its thier way of saying they arent trying to force ppl to IE7 (offering this tool)
    Just because it's installed doesn't mean you have to use it. Use Firefox instead

  8. #8
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    I think what's so bad isn't IE7. It's that everyone's computers will automatically download new software to their computers automatically. There's a big difference between an OS automatically downloading updates versus automatically downloading and installing new applications using an opt-out policy, instead of opt-in. That's pretty invasive!
    But it is an update to the software from one version to another. While it is a fairly big jump it's still just an update. And with so many people complaining about IE security I think forcing it out is probably a good idea.

    I just hope the default skin has changed since I tried the beta as even that confused me!
    Steve

  9. #9
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    I dont see what all the fuss is about. The only people I have seen moaning about Microsoft forcing IE7 on users is..... the usual merry band of kiddy Firefox supporters.

    People are always getting at Microsoft about security within IE6, and IE7 is a big improvement in terms of both security and useability.

    Okay, so it does not render pages any better (or worse), but hey who cares, if suddenly they went completely W3C (which Firefox isnt by the way) then it would mess up a whole load of websites.

    Id personally rather use a web browser that allows sloppy coding then one that can only display mandetory precise coding correctly. All these Firefox kiddies make me laugh, they go on about how much we should have freedom of choice, when all the time they are trying to force web developers to get it right and by the book. Talk about being conservative...
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  10. #10
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    I agree Xcellweb Matt, not to mention that so many people sticked to IE7 betas just because, as a browser, IE7 is by far a lot more enjoyable than IE6.

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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by juangake
    I agree Xcellweb Matt, not to mention that so many people sticked to IE7 betas just because, as a browser, IE7 is by far a lot more enjoyable than IE6.

    Regards,
    Juan
    Yep, I am one of them people, IE6 doesnt even compare to IE7. And the tabs function in IE7 is way better and easier to use then the tabs function in Firefox 1.5.

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  12. #12
    Im looking forward to IE7. I tried a beta version of it, and I liked it alot better. Alot of new features and as stated above, the tabs are great =)

  13. #13
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    If IE7 is more secure than IE6 everyone should be automatically updated. Coming from Microsoft who knows if that is actually the case. I think it has to be better considering how awful IE6 is.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xcellweb Matt
    I dont see what all the fuss is about. The only people I have seen moaning about Microsoft forcing IE7 on users is..... the usual merry band of kiddy Firefox supporters.

    People are always getting at Microsoft about security within IE6, and IE7 is a big improvement in terms of both security and useability.

    Okay, so it does not render pages any better (or worse), but hey who cares, if suddenly they went completely W3C (which Firefox isnt by the way) then it would mess up a whole load of websites.

    Id personally rather use a web browser that allows sloppy coding then one that can only display mandetory precise coding correctly. All these Firefox kiddies make me laugh, they go on about how much we should have freedom of choice, when all the time they are trying to force web developers to get it right and by the book. Talk about being conservative...
    Oh, that was excellent...

    IE 7 is cool... I use it most of the time, but FF is cool as well... I use it sometimes.

    For most users, I think the auto download is a good idea. Heck, most non-tech people don't download updates to computers. Think about it... really, people would rather MS just update the computer and be done with it. If they see a new browser, most won't care... they will keep on to the cooking sites.
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  15. #15
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    All these Firefox kiddies make me laugh, they go on about how much we should have freedom of choice, when all the time they are trying to force web developers to get it right and by the book. Talk about being conservative...
    And explain the part where CSS isn't fully supported so designers can't do what they want to do, even though it is a standard? And explaining the many bugs in CSS? It is as if MS is defining their own web standards, which I think is bad.

    However, for the rest of the post I agree, with the FF fanboy/kiddies etc. Seriously, everyone knows Opera is the best (or they just shut Opera out and live in ignorant bliss)

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by freak
    However, for the rest of the post I agree, with the FF fanboy/kiddies etc. Seriously, everyone knows Opera is the best (or they just shut Opera out and live in ignorant bliss)
    I personally choose IE7 over Opera (maybe because I am English and stubborn to change), but I certainly agress, Opera is an awsome browser, way better then Firefox and for the most part, better then IE7.

    I think IE7 and Opera have very similar tab functions, IE7 probably just about better then Opera, but overall they are the easiest to use.

    Bear in mind I have not tried Safari on the Mac...

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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xcellweb Matt
    Id personally rather use a web browser that allows sloppy coding then one that can only display mandetory precise coding correctly. All these Firefox kiddies make me laugh, they go on about how much we should have freedom of choice, when all the time they are trying to force web developers to get it right and by the book. Talk about being conservative...
    Standards only define the tools. They don't dictate one's creativity. But regardless, it's not about IE allowing sloppy coding. It's about IE rendering good coding in a sloppy manner. Code as sloppy as you want. Opera, Firefox and others will have to interpret what they think you meant to do, just like IE, and they all typically do a fine job of this. But throw good markup at the other browsers, and non-IE browsers deliver a better result than IE, remarkably better.
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  18. #18
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    So it looks like M$ is keeping the spyware companies in business by making them start coding differently.
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Internet54
    So it looks like M$ is keeping the spyware companies in business by making them start coding differently.
    What

  20. #20
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    IE is a security hole in itself. Many malicious websites are coded for IE6 browsers to automatically download malware, spyware, and even viruses.

    With IE7 out, these websites will now need to be recoded to allow the avg internet surfer to stumble across these traps and cause the security holes to come back.
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  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Internet54
    IE is a security hole in itself. Many malicious websites are coded for IE6 browsers to automatically download malware, spyware, and even viruses.

    With IE7 out, these websites will now need to be recoded to allow the avg internet surfer to stumble across these traps and cause the security holes to come back.
    How are they keeping them in business though?


    Is english your second language?

  22. #22
    Obvisously by ignorance.

    FireFox isnt any more secure then IE, and i do remember FireFox having one of the largest security holes i've ever seen which would allow commands to be run from the address bar that'd wipe your computer out.

    Guess that doesnt count, as we havent started the "Lets hate Mozilla cause they are big" campaign yet.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by ntfu2
    Obvisously by ignorance.

    FireFox isnt any more secure then IE, and i do remember FireFox having one of the largest security holes i've ever seen which would allow commands to be run from the address bar that'd wipe your computer out.

    Guess that doesnt count, as we havent started the "Lets hate Mozilla cause they are big" campaign yet.
    You mean that windows shell vulnerability? IE was also at risk for that vulnerability.

  24. #24
    No i dont think that was it, there was another i beleive. Let me go look for the link for it. * http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,1814056,00.asp

    And here is a interesting report for Firefox fans
    Symantec recently released the Internet Security Threat Report Vol. 10, covering the January to June, 2006, timeframe. The document said that Mozilla's Firefox was victimized by 47 reported vulnerabilities vs. 38 for Internet Explorer. That may surprise casual observers who believed that Firefox is supposed to be more secure. The writer points to the fact that the average time it takes to patch an IE vulnerability is nine days, vs. one day for Firefox. Thus, it would be just as fair to say that the Firefox users were exposed to 47 days of vulnerabilities vs. 342 for IE users.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by ntfu2
    No i dont think that was it, there was another i beleive. Let me go look for the link for it. * http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,1814056,00.asp

    And here is a interesting report for Firefox fans
    Oh, I never read about that one.

    I think one of the major factors is user-security. I think the people falling victim to virii / exploits are the same people who fall victim to email phishing scams. I think most firefox users are web-savvy enough not to click on anything they don't trust. IE users on the other hand.. That's your grandmother who just got a new dell, getting on the internet with MSN explorer, having no idea what phishing or virii are.

  26. #26
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    I'll be glad when we can find ways to put scammers/spammers/hackers behind bars for good... While I'm not thinking we will ever stop crime 100%, the future does not look good for any popular browser (or other software) as long as these criminals roam free...
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  27. #27
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    Thanks to Big Bison for pointing this out to me.

    http://www.cafeconleche.org/#October_19_2006_27828

    Five years ago this release might have been state-of-the-art. Today, it's a browser that still doesn't fully support CSS, still doesn't recognize the right MIME types for XHTML and XSLT, still doesn't pass the Acid 2 test, still doesn't support SVG, MathML, or XForms, and can only be considered an improvement by comparison to previous versions of itself. There's nothing here that will impress Firefox or Safari users.
    Kind of sums up what I've been thinking quite nicely, I just couldn't be bothered to put the words together myself
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  28. #28
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    Nothing that will impress Firefox users.... for starters the tab system is way way better then Firefox.... More towards that of Opera, but it even outdoes that in certain respects.

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  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xcellweb Matt
    Nothing that will impress Firefox users.... for starters the tab system is way way better then Firefox.... More towards that of Opera, but it even outdoes that in certain respects.

    What makes IE7's tab system better? I've been playing around with it today and can't see any reason for this.
    Steve

  30. #30
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    To open a new tab in firefox: File, open new tab.
    To open a new tab in IE7: Click the small tab to the right of your open tabs.

    To close a tab in Firefox: the x at the very right of the bar.
    To close a tab in IE7: there is an x on each tab when you are in it.

    To view all tabs on one screen in Firefox: Oh, it doesnt have that feature...
    To view all tabs on one screen in IE7: Click the 4 tab button at the left.

    To navigate between tabs when you have loads open in Firefox: cant do it without opening each tab to find out what it is.
    To navigate between tabs when you have loads open in IE7: just the drop down menu to the left of the tabs, which contains all the tab names.

    Im sorry, but there is no way you cant say it isnt a better tab system. Maybe its more personal preference, but everything in IE7 seems a bit more convenient then in Firefox.

    Although its fairly similar in style to Opera, it is even better then this due to its increased convenience.

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  31. #31
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    To open a new tab in firefox: File, open new tab.
    To open a new tab in IE7: Click the small tab to the right of your open tabs.

    Or in Firefox press Ctrl+T or Double click the tab bar and a new tab opens.

    To close a tab in Firefox: the x at the very right of the bar.
    To close a tab in IE7: there is an x on each tab when you are in it.

    In Firefox 2.0 the cross is on each tab. Or you can have it stay in the top right - it's your choice.

    To view all tabs on one screen in Firefox: Oh, it doesnt have that feature...
    To view all tabs on one screen in IE7: Click the 4 tab button at the left.

    There have been extensions to do this for months.

    To navigate between tabs when you have loads open in Firefox: cant do it without opening each tab to find out what it is.
    To navigate between tabs when you have loads open in IE7: just the drop down menu to the left of the tabs, which contains all the tab names.

    In Firefox 2.0 there is a button to click which provides a full list of all tabs and allows you to click to view.

    So with Firefox 2 being officially released soon all your advantages are gone.
    Steve

  32. #32
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    Well hey, regardless of all the page rendering errors, lack of support for various services and whatnot, at least Microsoft finally released a secure browser

    Oh, wait a minute...
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  33. #33
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    To open a new tab in firefox: File, open new tab.
    To open a new tab in IE7: Click the small tab to the right of your open tabs.
    firefox does actually have that.

    http://a.photos.cx/hahahayearight-ce1.gif

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by ub3r
    firefox does actually have that.

    http://a.photos.cx/hahahayearight-ce1.gif
    Or you can just double click on the bar.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xcellweb Matt
    I dont see what all the fuss is about. The only people I have seen moaning about Microsoft forcing IE7 on users is..... the usual merry band of kiddy Firefox supporters.

    People are always getting at Microsoft about security within IE6, and IE7 is a big improvement in terms of both security and useability.

    Okay, so it does not render pages any better (or worse), but hey who cares, if suddenly they went completely W3C (which Firefox isnt by the way) then it would mess up a whole load of websites.

    Id personally rather use a web browser that allows sloppy coding then one that can only display mandetory precise coding correctly. All these Firefox kiddies make me laugh, they go on about how much we should have freedom of choice, when all the time they are trying to force web developers to get it right and by the book. Talk about being conservative...


    Sigh. Thanks for classifying web designers like me as 'Firefox kiddies'. I really appreciate it.

    I do my stuff by the books. My pages validate XHTML Strict. How is that 'wrong'?

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by macdonaldp
    Or you can just double click on the bar.
    my toolbar is always full.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by layer0


    Sigh. Thanks for classifying web designers like me as 'Firefox kiddies'. I really appreciate it.

    I do my stuff by the books. My pages validate XHTML Strict. How is that 'wrong'?
    A lot of Firefox users are just plastering forums and websites telling people to download it as its the "best" browser ever (have the really tried every browser???) and its very childish the way they do this.

    There are plenty of users who don't do this, but you dont see users of Opera constantly bombarding forums telling people to use Opera do you?

    I just feels its very childish the way many users believe there is nothing greater then Firefox, and see it as an excuse to put Microsoft down. Its giving Firefox users a very bad reputation and starting to annoy people the way they do it. I remember a couple of months back, a forums I am a member of actually banned all talk of Firefox, basically because the anti-MS squad were literally spamming the forums telling people how great Firefox is....

    If they dont like Microsoft, why do 99% of them, probably more actually, use Microsoft Windows....

    I wasnt getting at anyone on a personal level with that statement, I hope you can understand this.

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  38. #38
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    I just feels its very childish the way many users believe there is nothing greater then Firefox,
    What's so childish about having a favorite browser?

    This isn't about liking or disliking Microsoft. Microsoft makes some fantastic products, and I have the utmost respect for Gates as a business person and a philanthropist. I just happen to think MS's browsing product is ****, and a whole lot of research seems to corroborate that sentiment. Heck, it took less than 24 hours for the first critical security hole to show up in it!

    (FWIW, I don't particularly like Firefox either. It's too much trouble keeping up with extensions just to do all the things Opera already does so well.)
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  39. #39
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    Theres nothing childish about having a favorite browser... I have already made my point why Firefox users are getting a childish reputation.

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    I like FF - and I'm not a kiddie. Though I do understand your point. The one thing I like about FF is the page rendering speed compared to IE7 - which is a bit slow in my opinion. I haven't fiddled with Opera too much because after running side by side test - FF still rendered pages faster than Opera - not by much - but enough to make me not want to learn a new browser.


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