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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
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    * My WYSIWYG Reviews--Nvu, Amaya, MS Expression, and DW

    Several weeks back, I started a thread comparing the open-source WYSIWYG ("what you see is what you get") editors Nvu and Amaya. I was looking into WYSIWYG editors, and "free!!" sounded great at the time. Anyway, I got some mixed, but mostly negative, responses about them, as well as suggestions for Microsoft Expression Web (currently in beta) and, of course, DreamWeaver. So, I decided to spend a week or so trying them out and forming my own opinion. It is just a newbie's opinion, but I did try to be thorough.

    So, here are the reviews:


    Nvu: Well....could be better! It looks like I could eventually make it do everything to get the job done, but I would be very concerned about coming across an insurmountable bug at some point, and I think my efficiency would be terrible. My quick take:
    The Pros:
    --FREE
    --capable of doing basic things okay
    --works pretty well for importing and making content edits to existing pages
    --has an okay CSS editor

    The Cons:
    --not very intuitive to use
    --not all available commands and options can be found via the menus
    --I never could figure out how to do everything (even some seemingly basic things)...either it's buggy, or I just don't get something
    --tables are difficult to work with and lay out
    --it's not really a site editor; it really only works with single pages at a time (there is a "Site Manager" pane, but it's worthless as far as I can tell)
    --images inserted onto a page are not copied into the local site's filing system!
    --really no image-editing features
    --links created between pages are absolute, not relative, so they don't work if the site is moved (like when publishing a site you've been working on locally!)
    --no built-in templates
    --support docs and forums are okay, but poorly organized and hard to use
    --no "split view"--always have to toggle back and forth between design and code
    --lots of other bugs and quirks
    --will version 2.0 ever come out?




    Amaya: Terrible. Simply terrible.


    The Pros:
    --FREE
    --might work as an OK text code editor with standards checking abilities?
    --not many other redeeming qualities

    The Cons:
    --horrible, horrible GUI
    --I don't think I'd even call this WYSIWYG...absolutely no dragging or resizing anything is possible as far as I can tell
    --no right clicking at all! what are we, cavemen...or traditionalist Mac users? (no offense to those nice cavemen on the tv commercials....)
    --has split-view, but the stuff in the other pane doesn't really refresh on the fly
    --tables are pretty much impossible to work with
    --0 border on table = 0 table in editor, as far as I can tell
    --again, not really a "site" editor; only one page at a time
    --text CSS editor is just black and white--no color-coding
    --the graphical CSS editor GUI looks okay, but I couldn't get it to work on existing sites with CSS like Nvu did
    --no built-in templates
    --no image editing or saving images locally with the page
    --documents and support not the greatest and difficult to use
    --slow to open existing online Web pages
    --once open, they often don't display quite right in the editor
    --I wish it wan't free so I could get my money back!




    Microsoft Expression Web: This one took me by surprise. For one, it's only in beta (which means it's free for now, but not forever!). For two, I thought it would be just a rehash of FrontPage. It is actually a very smooth, very capable solution. It may lack a few of the features of DreamWeaver, but in many cases it makes up for it by being easier to use, in my opinoin. Once it's actually released, and if they rectify a couple of the biggest cons noted below, I think it offers a very competitive value, especially since it is likely to be at a lower price point. My quick take:
    The Pros:
    --FREE during beta, most likely less than DW after release
    --None of the cons mentioned for Nvu and Amaya--pretty much does the opposite and makes pros out of them; that covers a lot of ground right there!
    --Great at managing complete sites, including:
    --basing multiple pages off of a single template--change the template later, and all the pages reflect the changes
    --change css properties in a page where the css definitions are actually linked from an external file, and it updates the external file automatically
    --images that are inserted are automatically copied into the appropriate site directory
    --Can automatically generate thumbnails from bigger images
    --Some simple built-in image editing features--flip, rotate, brightness, resample, etc.
    --lots of good analysis tools for standards compliance, page size, broken links, etc.
    --fairly intuitive given all the features
    --some good, professional, standars-compliant built-in templates
    --very good at importing existing sites, even from the Web--can crawl and grab a local copy of an entire site given just the homepage URL
    --good handling of CSS

    The Cons:
    --support and built-in tools for ASP.NET design, but no support for PHP or others! I don't quite know what this means--does it rule Expression out for use with any site that uses some php, or could the php still be inserted by hand?
    --One of the sites I used in testing didn't display quite right in the editor (but it didn't in DreamWeaver either)
    --CSS layout visual aids not as good as DreamWeaver
    --no "zoom" feature like DreamWeaver
    --Can't drag guidelines off of ruler to mark postions on design page like DreamWeaver




    DreamWeaver 8: Clearly, DW has been the king, and it is yet to be de-throned, although MS Expression Web may give it something to think about. Plus, I think Expression may be easier to get started in; so, while longtime DW users probably won't be switching, a few more new users may start elsewhere. Anyway, here's what I thought after briefly playing with the free trial:


    The Pros:
    --mature and good
    --supports more scripting languages
    --lots of different built-in starter pages
    --good CSS editing capabilities
    --better contextual help than MS Expression (meaning there are help buttons in the various configuration windows that give you help with what you are doing)
    --Easy creation of navigation bars and other such things
    --Shows some sites right that Expression had slightly off

    The Cons:
    --most expensive
    --nearly all image-handling features require Fireworks, which makes it even more expensive
    --some of the built-in menu commands actually require Fireworks, too....
    --not nearly as good as Expression at importing existing sites from the Web; in fact, much more frustrating than even Nvu or Amaya for doing this
    --Can view previews in different browsers, but no apparent ability to preview in specific browser window sizes like Expression?
    --sometimes not very intuitive
    --one test site didn't display in the editor even close to how it looks in a browser (IE or Firefox)
    --apparent bug discovered related to CSS editing and undoing
    --capable of building and managing full sites well, but not as intuitive a way of doing so as Expression, in my opinion




    So, those are my thoughts. Comments welcome! Please correct anything I may have gotten wrong (after all, I didn't fully learn any of these tools), and feel free to add your own thoughts about these editors.

    Edit: Oh yeah, also feel free to compare any additional Web design programs that I may have left out.

    Thanks!
    I'll have a link here someday.
    Maybe a catchy slogan, too!

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Duluth, MN
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    286
    Somehow I missed this when you posted it. I think you have a prety good handle on the subject. I've never used Expressions but I prety much agree with you about the rest of them. I've believed for a long time that FireWorx should be part of DreamWeaver, as it is you have to buy them separately or buy the full suite. :-( I have DW 8 but am still runnung FW 2005 because of the cost.

    As I said in another thread Nvu is a fleshed out form of Netscape/Mozilla Composer and it really shows in how poorly it handles whole sites. I never caught the absolute instead of relative linking with Nvu but I do remember that from Composer. I'm also wondering when 2.0 (or even 1.5) is coming out. It's been more than a year. I would really love to sing this product's praises but it really needs work to even compare to FP, let alone DW, and the developer doesn't seem to be in any hurry to add new features.

    You had the guts to say what I was thinking about Amaya ;-)

    So when all is said and done, what one are you going to adopt?
    Tim Ryberg, InterWorx L.L.C. | InterWorx Hosting Control Panel 3.0!
    Views expressed are the author's own and do not represent those of InterWorx L.L.C. unless stated otherwise.
    Join me in my personal quest for The Ultimate CMS!

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
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    67
    Quote Originally Posted by IWorx-Tim
    Somehow I missed this when you posted it. I think you have a prety good handle on the subject. I've never used Expressions but I prety much agree with you about the rest of them. I've believed for a long time that FireWorx should be part of DreamWeaver, as it is you have to buy them separately or buy the full suite. :-( I have DW 8 but am still runnung FW 2005 because of the cost.

    As I said in another thread Nvu is a fleshed out form of Netscape/Mozilla Composer and it really shows in how poorly it handles whole sites. I never caught the absolute instead of relative linking with Nvu but I do remember that from Composer. I'm also wondering when 2.0 (or even 1.5) is coming out. It's been more than a year. I would really love to sing this product's praises but it really needs work to even compare to FP, let alone DW, and the developer doesn't seem to be in any hurry to add new features.

    You had the guts to say what I was thinking about Amaya ;-)
    Thanks for the comments . Since you seem to have some exprience with these, I would be interested to see what you think of Expression, if you have time to give it a test run sometime.

    Quote Originally Posted by IWorx-Tim
    So when all is said and done, what one are you going to adopt?
    Well, I'm going to give Expression a try on my next project and see how it goes. If it turns out to work well for me, then I won't have to say goodbye to my money and buy DreamWeaver.
    I'll have a link here someday.
    Maybe a catchy slogan, too!

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by kopptech
    The Cons: [INDENT]--support and built-in tools for ASP.NET design, but no support for PHP or others! I don't quite know what this means--does it rule Expression out for use with any site that uses some php, or could the php still be inserted by hand?!
    Nice post....

    Far as php, I think it depends on what you need to do. For example, I was able to make a php script work for my site. I basically uploaded the script, opened it with notepad, made the changes, and then saved the script.

    This is not ideal, but MS has said they would support php in the future.
    Windows 10 to Linux and Mac OSX: I'm PARSECs better than you. Eat my dust!!!

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
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    Duluth, MN
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    Quote Originally Posted by kopptech
    Thanks for the comments . Since you seem to have some exprience with these, I would be interested to see what you think of Expression, if you have time to give it a test run sometime.
    It's on my to do list. I'll make sure to post when I get around to it.


    Well, I'm going to give Expression a try on my next project and see how it goes. If it turns out to work well for me, then I won't have to say goodbye to my money and buy DreamWeaver.
    Good Luck with that but if you really don't want to spend micho $$$ you could get on eBay or somewhere and get MX 2005 instead of 8, the main difference that I've seen so far is speed -- 8 is MUCh faster loading.

    EDIT: Oh and CSS editing has been revamped but that's not a feature I've really explored as I just got used to editing my CSS in Top Style Lite.
    Last edited by IWorx-Tim; 10-18-2006 at 09:50 PM.
    Tim Ryberg, InterWorx L.L.C. | InterWorx Hosting Control Panel 3.0!
    Views expressed are the author's own and do not represent those of InterWorx L.L.C. unless stated otherwise.
    Join me in my personal quest for The Ultimate CMS!

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