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  1. #1
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    Question about Windows Plesk Versus Helm

    Hi,

    We are currently trying to decide what path to take for our windows hosting offering. Currently we have a couple of reseller accounts, windows with plesk. Now, while we do not have any major issues with the panel, here are a couple of issues I have currently. We are trying to figure out the best way to proceed given that in the coming year we will move all domains from the reseller accounts to a ded box.

    1. Plesk does not allow you to oversell at all.

    2. Backups and restores are a major pain - this is worrying for when we would have to make the transfer of domains to the ded box (since we wont have root access to our reseller accounts) and we do not want to trouble our customers...

    Now some other questions:

    1. How does Helm compare to Plesk in these two aspects?

    2. How much of a hassle would it be to transfer from plesk to helm in our situation?

    Some other issues I have:

    1. When we finally do go over to a windows ded box, we would be offering MS SQL as well. So would we need to run MS SQL on a separate server? How about the mail, would that need to be on a separate server too?

    2. If we need to have these two applications on separate servers, what would the min requirements be for these servers?

    3. If we dont need to have them on sep servers, what would be the min specs of the one server we would have...

    4. What are the pros/cons of plesk vs helm?

    5. Would we need to use Enterprise edition of MS SQL or would Workgroup edition suffice?

    Would greatly appreciate some advice! Basically we are just trying to decide which will be a better panel to use in the long run and will help us move accounts easily and grow without too much hassles.

    Cheers!

  2. #2
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    I'll touch on a couple points.

    1. no reseller packages that I know of allow overselling. you set a finite amount of bandwidth and the reseller is not allowed to assign over it.

    2. i don't understand the pain of a backup/restore with Plesk for Windows? it's the easiest possible way to do it.

    bottom

    1,2,3,. you don't need to purchase SQL. Plesk for Windows has the free version installed. if you install Plesk for WIndows you'll have both MSSQL and MySQL to choose from when giving a customer a database.
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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by e-places
    I'll touch on a couple points.

    1. no reseller packages that I know of allow overselling. you set a finite amount of bandwidth and the reseller is not allowed to assign over it.

    2. i don't understand the pain of a backup/restore with Plesk for Windows? it's the easiest possible way to do it.

    bottom

    1,2,3,. you don't need to purchase SQL. Plesk for Windows has the free version installed. if you install Plesk for WIndows you'll have both MSSQL and MySQL to choose from when giving a customer a database.
    Hey, thanks for the reply...

    1. I mean that when we move to a ded box, will we be able to oversell (like you can in Cpanel). Plesk seems to lack this. We have a plesk VPS as well, and cant oversell there either. Can anyone confirm this for Plesk?

    2. Backups, well I hear that they tend to get corrupted and freeze when you try and restore them to another server. I am talking about backing up from the reseller account (which is not the same as having root access to the server)...

    3. Yep, Plesk does have MSDE version installed, but I dont believe that is enough for offering database hosting from your server?

    Thanks

  4. #4
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    1) With Helm you can oversell. I am not sure on Plesk.

    2) There is no backup option within Helm itself. You will have to use a third party backup product like Backup For Workgroups (www.lockstep.com).

    3) Not only is MSDE not made to host clients on, I believe selling/reselling MSDE databases in a hosting environment might be agains the EULA for that software.

    It is preferable that you separate the database and mail from the web (http) server itself however, you don't really have to. It all depends on how much "security" and "stability" you want to provide to your clients.

    For SQL server, we have the Enterprise, the Standard, and the Workgroup edition of SQL server. If you are just starting out then the Workgroup will suffice... upgrade it when needed.

    In my opinion Helm on Windows outdoes Plesk especially Helm 4! Well let me rephrase that... Helm works better for us (ease of use for clients, lower maintenance, easier maintenance, easier to add servers and split up services in the future as needed, stability and speed just from the fact that Helm is written in ASP/.NET which are native to Windows) than Plesk. The same might not be true for you
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  5. #5
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    Plesk doesn't deploy their control panel with a SQL version that's not legal. lol
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by e-places
    Plesk doesn't deploy their control panel with a SQL version that's not legal. lol
    I believe what he meant is that it is OK for personal use not commercial.

  7. #7
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    So you think Plesk puts out a control panel that you can use for yourself only?

    the license is fine to use for customers i'm sure. it would make no sense to do it otherwise. I mean I could certainly be wrong but it just wouldn't make any sense.
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  8. #8
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    Now Now..... Plesk distributes it as a part of their application... that's different from you downloading it and installing it on your dedicated server.

    I'll let you guys decipher it for yourselves

    http://download.microsoft.com/downlo...edist_EULA.doc

    Please read item # 6 there and let me know what you think ok guys and gals?

    Sorry I was trying to help (sigh)
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  9. #9
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    this isn't a 6 year old piece of software called SQL 2000 boys and girls. it's SQL Express Edition 2005

    SQL Server 2005 Express Edition is the next version of MSDE and is a free, easy-to-use, lightweight, and embeddable version of SQL Server 2005. Free to download, free to redistribute, free to embed, and easy for new developers to use immediately
    http://www.microsoft.com/sql/edition...s/default.mspx
    Last edited by fastnoc; 10-04-2006 at 02:25 PM.
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by ndxb
    Hey, thanks for the reply...

    1. I mean that when we move to a ded box, will we be able to oversell (like you can in Cpanel). Plesk seems to lack this. We have a plesk VPS as well, and cant oversell there either. Can anyone confirm this for Plesk?

    2. Backups, well I hear that they tend to get corrupted and freeze when you try and restore them to another server. I am talking about backing up from the reseller account (which is not the same as having root access to the server)...

    3. Yep, Plesk does have MSDE version installed, but I dont believe that is enough for offering database hosting from your server?

    Thanks

    1. cPanel may very well offer overselling. I don't think Plesk does. But i don't know that FOR SURE because I don't use that part. You create a client and assign the client a bandwidth limit. Then you can allow them to distribute that allocation across all their domains.

    2. I've restored numerous sites from Plesk backups using Both Plesk for Windows and Plesk for Linux and so far I haven't had a bit of trouble. I really like the windows restore version because you can selectively restore by domain, by client or by appliance.

    In version 7.6 (the latest) you can do numerous schedule backups and restores. it's very nice.

    3. read above. it's the express edition and it's fine to offer for hosting. There are restrictions but nothing that would cause any trouble. Also, don't listen to the 'it's restricted to X connections' if you hear it because that's a myth. I've got a couple customers that have big databases running with it and don't report any problems. We also offer SQL hosting as we have Enterprise licenses, but I wouldn't recommend it for what you're saying because it would be a HUGE expense that's not needed.

    EDIT TO ADD:

    Also, take a look at the Site Builder from SW soft. Last i heard the license was on promotion and was free. The new version is great and it's well integrated. You can even have the builder deploy new sites already built with it. Course you may not want that. They come generic and need editing. But there's like 300 templates. some very nice ones.
    Last edited by fastnoc; 10-04-2006 at 02:38 PM.
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by e-places
    1. cPanel may very well offer overselling. I don't think Plesk does. But i don't know that FOR SURE because I don't use that part. You create a client and assign the client a bandwidth limit. Then you can allow them to distribute that allocation across all their domains.

    2. I've restored numerous sites from Plesk backups using Both Plesk for Windows and Plesk for Linux and so far I haven't had a bit of trouble. I really like the windows restore version because you can selectively restore by domain, by client or by appliance.

    In version 7.6 (the latest) you can do numerous schedule backups and restores. it's very nice.

    3. read above. it's the express edition and it's fine to offer for hosting. There are restrictions but nothing that would cause any trouble. Also, don't listen to the 'it's restricted to X connections' if you hear it because that's a myth. I've got a couple customers that have big databases running with it and don't report any problems. We also offer SQL hosting as we have Enterprise licenses, but I wouldn't recommend it for what you're saying because it would be a HUGE expense that's not needed.

    EDIT TO ADD:

    Also, take a look at the Site Builder from SW soft. Last i heard the license was on promotion and was free. The new version is great and it's well integrated. You can even have the builder deploy new sites already built with it. Course you may not want that. They come generic and need editing. But there's like 300 templates. some very nice ones.

    Hey thanks for the reply! Ok so they mustve improved the backups then. So you mean that backing up domains on a reseller account (without root access) and restoring them to a ded box is straightforward?

    Also, when you backup, can you decide what you want to backup, like a full site backup (website + emails + DB)?

    Thanks!

  12. #12
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    Well, I didn't do it as a reseller, but it's the same function as admin. you can choose to do the backup locally, or to an ftp. You can also schedule ftp or local backups.

    No you can't decided which individual items to backup, it's done as a site.
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  13. #13
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    3. read above. it's the express edition and it's fine to offer for hosting.
    e-places is right on SQL Server 2005 Express Edition (which is not the same as MSDE which is what the OP commented on in the third post of this thread). You can use that edition and host clients on it. Microsoft changed the EULA when they released SP1 of Express. There is also no limit on the number of simultaneous connections... the bottleneck will be RAM allocation if any.

    Good Luck!
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  14. #14
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    How many folks are actually using HELM 4? The only bummer part about HELM 3.X is that you cannot bifurcate the MailEnable server (since that is our preference).

    MailEnable or Ipswitch's IMail must run on the same server as HELM and cannot run remotely.
    "I drink too much. The last time I gave a urine sample it had an olive in it. ".
    Rodney Dangerfield (from "I Get No Respect!").

  15. #15
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    * Moved to Hosting Software and Control Panels...

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