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  1. #1

    Is the cisco stuff on Ebay legit - does fakes exist ?

    I see some dirt cheap prices on fleabay...I need a 3600series switch and was turning to fleabay for one.

    I don't want to buy a dud/clone/Krisko knock-off though. Does such exist ?

  2. #2
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    Look at the feed back and how long they have been around, the longer the better.

  3. #3
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    Occasionally, like music said look at the sellers reputation and make your decision on whether or not they are legitamite.


    Alex

  4. #4
    I'm familar with Ebay....
    I have not found a particular item yet but I remember when I needed a slew of WICS awhile back, there was this selling in *china* that had Cisco stuff like no tomorrow....

    But, like my OP stated, is there such a thing as Cisco counterfit copies ?

    For example, even cheap stuff or not so cheap stuff like Focal speakers - couterfits exists..

  5. #5
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    We bought some gbics from the china guy on eBay, never had any problems with them. There are definately people selling stolen goods on there, though.
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by music
    Look at the feed back and how long they have been around, the longer the better.
    Quote Originally Posted by adb22791
    like music said...
    Totally irrelevant to the topic.

    Yes fakes do exist, typically as modules (GBICs, SFPs, WICs, etc.). I haven't seen or heard of entire fake chassis before, but I wouldn't put it past these guys. Most of the fakes come from Asia; be wary of sellers from Hong Kong. For more tangible discussion, see http://www.affirmedsystems.com/fakewics.html

    Are fakes bad? Well that depends. It was recently reported by a financial analyst that Cisco makes upwards of 90% markup on their optics (GBICs and SFPs). Most of Cisco's optics are manufactured by Finisar; does that mean Finisars are fakes? Hardly. Good luck using many of the fakes though. Cisco started implementing safeguards in IOS to keep fake GBIC/SFPs from being used.

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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by tical
    Totally irrelevant to the topic.

    Yes fakes do exist, typically as modules (GBICs, SFPs, WICs, etc.). I haven't seen or heard of entire fake chassis before, but I wouldn't put it past these guys. Most of the fakes come from Asia; be wary of sellers from Hong Kong. For more tangible discussion, see http://www.affirmedsystems.com/fakewics.html

    Are fakes bad? Well that depends. It was recently reported by a financial analyst that Cisco makes upwards of 90% markup on their optics (GBICs and SFPs). Most of Cisco's optics are manufactured by Finisar; does that mean Finisars are fakes? Hardly. Good luck using many of the fakes though. Cisco started implementing safeguards in IOS to keep fake GBIC/SFPs from being used.
    Actually, it is relevant. A seller will not have a good reputation if he or she is selling fake equipment, therefore a sellers reputation is a good way to tell if a seller has been problematic in the past.

    Your second analogy makes entirely no sense. You talk about Finisar making Cisco's optics, however that has nothing to do with whether fake optics used in Cisco equipment sold on ebay is good or bad.


    Alex
    Last edited by Alex; 10-02-2006 at 06:06 PM.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by tical
    Cisco started implementing safeguards in IOS to keep fake GBIC/SFPs from being used.
    You can get around this with the service unsupported-transceiver undocumented command. That command has the longest warning I've ever seen a Cisco device kick out, the Readers Digest version being "You use a 3rd party GBIC, you're on your own."
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by adb22791
    Actually, it is relevant. A seller will not have a good reputation if he or she is selling fake equipment
    Since you seem to love dealing in hypotheticals, here's one for you. Let's say I knowingly buy something that I believe is fake. Should I leave negative feedback if the fake isn't compatible with my IOS version? Nope; that's dishonest. But continue to think as you may.

    Your second analogy makes entirely no sense. You talk about Finisar making Cisco's optics, however that has nothing to do with whether fake optics used in Cisco equipment sold on ebay is good or bad.
    It must have gone over your head. Sorry.

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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by chefwong
    I see some dirt cheap prices on fleabay...I need a 3600series switch and was turning to fleabay for one.

    I don't want to buy a dud/clone/Krisko knock-off though. Does such exist ?
    Yes, there are fake 2950's, I ended up with one myself and had posted about it before. These are the ones you typically see sellers offering at the lowest price available on the 'net like $600-700 new or whatever they're going for now. It was even sold by a shop with fairly good feedback claiming they were authorized Cisco.

    3600's? Not sure, but the 2950 had a stolen IOS, extremely well done chassis/faceplate, and even full manual/cable/box to look genuine.

    As others recommend, go with a well known new or used vendor thats listed by Cisco as being authorized and save yourself a lot of headache.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tical
    Since you seem to love dealing in hypotheticals, here's one for you. Let's say I knowingly buy something that I believe is fake. Should I leave negative feedback if the fake isn't compatible with my IOS version? Nope; that's dishonest. But continue to think as you may.
    Again, what does that have to do with negative feedback on fake devices that don't work but the seller is listing as real?


    Alex

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by adb22791
    Again, what does that have to do with negative feedback on fake devices that don't work but the seller is listing as real?
    You contended that a seller will have a bad reputation if they're selling fakes; that's hypothetical and not necessarily true. You don't know if said seller's customers know they're buying a fake before they buy it. If they do then leaving negative feedback is dishonest. But if they know they're buying a fake, they buy anyway, and don't leave negative feedback, then your entire premise is flawed.

    But again, we're talking hypotheticals. This is why I (tried) to leave the feedback element out of this discussion. Feedback is largely irrelevant in my opinion. What is relevant is discernment. If you see someone carrying a handgun into WalMart in plain view, it's pretty obvious that something bad is about to happen. Along those lines, if you see a seller from Hong Kong with dirt cheap WICs and GBICs, you might be persuaded that there's a good possibility they're fakes.

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  13. #13
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    A friend of mine runs a "small" cisco VAR (about 25 employees) in the bay area. He had a customer a few years back in Japan, and he was flying out there to do some work. Cisco was potentially delayed in shipping out a card for their 6509, I believe it was an oc-12 card, so he went online, and found a company in Japan that could sell him one. He purchased it online for an unbelievably cheap price, around $8k (the card's list with Cisco was $35k).

    When my friend arrived in Tokyo, the card direct from Cisco had already arrived, so he installed that, and brought the card he bought in Japan back with him. Upon closer inspection, he found that this new, sealed in package card was indeed 100% a cisco card, but without any Cisco markings. With some research he found that a contract manufacturer in Taiwan had made it. Apparently they had lost a contract with Cisco after a few years, and decided they would keep manufacturing them, and selling them on the grey market.

    Caveat Emptor.

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    If you are looking at optics such as SFP, Xenpaks... then there are a bunch that is actually made by companies like Finisar and got stolen off the assembly line (or it was deliberately) done. I am pretty sure I have no trouble with those parts.

    I also wanted to add that the lower end gear made by China's manufacturer are pretty good quality wise. SX SFP we brought from China fails less then the "Nortel" label stuff we have.

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    Should contact networkhardware.com they sell allot on ebay, but can get you just as good or better pricing directly without going through ebay.
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  16. #16
    I was talking to my cisco VAR about used equipment a few months back. Apparently, Cisco calls all used equipment that is not sold directly by them "grey market". He made it clear that the terms of the IOS license make it non transferrable. So, if you get a good deal on a used switch or router, you are not licensed to run IOS on it and are violating their IP rights. They sell IOS, I believe, but it's outrageous. Their intent is to closely control the market for their equipment, particularly with the proliferation of fakes.

    Buyer beware...

  17. #17
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    The only thing I'd say about dealing with ebay is a generalization...
    Look through as many similar auctions as possible and get an idea of the common pictures used as lots of people will steal and reuse someone elses pictures and that is often an indication that the listing is fraudulent.

    Look through past completed auctions for similar pictures or to see if the seller has changed but the listing is identical...

    In the last few months I've noticed dozens of 3700 series switches which were completely fraudulent sold from dozens of different gmail addresses. (Hacked ebay/paypal/gmail accounts.)

  18. #18
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    We've had mixed results purchasing network gear on ebay. There are certainly some good deals out there, but there are plenty of bad deals too. In the end, we have found it is much more convenient and safe to work with someone who deals in used equipment. We use Globalcom Solutions - http://www.globalcomsolutions.net - they are a smaller shop so you get very nice, personalized service, they give us pretty good deals. We don't always get "ebay pricing", but i have found that much of the time you really do get what you pay for, and I'd rather pay slightly more and get a reliable, genuine product that I can trust and that my vendor will stand behind.
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