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  1. #1

    want to host a vBulletin is VPS the way to go?

    Im trying to plan ahead, if my idea works out the board could get a lot of trafic fast, so since I dont want to pay for a dedicated server (my GF will simply cut my heart out and eat it right in front of my face if I spend more than 100 per month on a server) I looked around and found a small orange, and their VPS offer.

    Will I see a huge difference in speed and quality if I have VPS server or a can I for a start go with a large shared server?

  2. #2
    I run a forum and from experience, if you have a $100.00 budget for hosting I would definitely choose a VPS. I have been on shared and VPS and for the price of VPS's you will be much happier. Especially if you plan on allot traffic. I generally have 120+ users on my site and I see way better performance than I did when I was on a shared account. I am currently using Knownhosts VPS-L plan. Here is a link to my site if you would like to check it out.

  3. #3
    Problem , I have no idea how to mentain a VPS, UI think I need to go for a start to a little orange and get the large shared account.

    Would you say that hosting a vBulletin board on a server with 4500 space 100 gig Bandwidth is enough untill the board grows to a size were I have to move and learn to use VPS `?

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by 10/10
    Problem , I have no idea how to mentain a VPS, UI think I need to go for a start to a little orange and get the large shared account.

    Would you say that hosting a vBulletin board on a server with 4500 space 100 gig Bandwidth is enough untill the board grows to a size were I have to move and learn to use VPS `?
    Yea I did not have much experiece with Vps either. That's where Knownhost came in. They installed everything, cPanel, Whm, helped configure the firewall as well. Look for a Managed VPS if you don't have much experience..

    Yes, to start out with that should be fine. When I started my site I had something of that nature.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Coimbra, Portugal
    Posts
    236
    If you want to start a board a VPS will be a great solution:
    » With a control panel
    |-> Easy to mantain
    |-> Easy to create mails
    `-> Easy to setup
    » Possibility to upgrade
    `-> You can upgrade memory/cpu/space/bandwidth without downtime

    Directadmin is a great control panel and will use a lot less resources than CPanel leaving it to vBulletin.


  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    103
    I would have to second that we highly recomend DirectAdmin, actually give it away free
    || Josh Anderson - CVO A&M Hosting
    || A&M Hosting | Virtual Private Servers
    || US | UK
    || No overselling guaranteed

  7. #7

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by datarealm
    You can find fully dedicated servers for well under $100/month...
    But normally those are slow servers, and a VPS will normally be on a cluster or large high end server.

    So a VPS is better imho for a $100 budget.

    We use directadmin on two of our large servers that run vbulletins sites with 800 and 600 users constantly online. millions of posts.

    Would never choose cpanel or ensim or plesk as they are all system hogs.... good for shared server environments but not for a vbulletin dedicated server.
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  9. #9

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    103
    you can get quite a bit depending on the host 512MB-1GB Dedicated RAM+, 600Mhz-3.0Ghz+ Guaranteed CPU, etc.
    || Josh Anderson - CVO A&M Hosting
    || A&M Hosting | Virtual Private Servers
    || US | UK
    || No overselling guaranteed

  11. #11

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    103
    Will still be a low end box, when you can get a managed VPS for the same price with a better host node.
    || Josh Anderson - CVO A&M Hosting
    || A&M Hosting | Virtual Private Servers
    || US | UK
    || No overselling guaranteed

  13. #13
    How do you quantify low-end? I could do a 2.8 GHz EM64T P4, full gig of ram, and a 150Mbps SATA hard drive for that price. I'm not clear what's low-end there vs. high-end? To say nothing of the fact that all resources are 100% dedicated... Nothing shared... No security concerns that are "out of my control" (in particular of course the host system, and then other VPS's if exploits become available to attack the host through a VPS.)

    Again, I don't know too much about VPS's, which is what I'm trying to understand here. I don't get why for the same money, one person would choose a VPS and another would choose a dedicated box. I understand that VPS's allow you to allocate set amounts of CPU, RAM, etc. But there are still common shared resources. What if one VPS user starts thrashing the hard drive? That must have an impact on other users... In terms of security, you are all sharing the same physical RAM. It seems like only a matter of time before someone in a VPS finds a "bug" that lets them access RAM outside their bounds... And of course once they do that accessing disk (and CPU, but that's just a performance thing) can't be far behind.

    And then most apps aren't made for threading... For example with a hyperthreading CPU, you often see better performance for turning HT off. So it seems like there could even be server degradation by splitting VPS's in multi-cpu boxes.

    Seems to me that given the same/similar specs, a dedicated machine would always win hands down, unless I'm not understanding something.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Sydney, Australia
    Posts
    251
    Quote Originally Posted by datarealm
    How do you quantify low-end? I could do a 2.8 GHz EM64T P4, full gig of ram, and a 150Mbps SATA hard drive for that price. I'm not clear what's low-end there vs. high-end?
    That is low-end. Many Xen hosts used dual Xeon or dual Opteron. ECC server-grade memory. Hardware RAID'ed SATA or SCSI drives, etc.

    To say nothing of the fact that all resources are 100% dedicated... Nothing shared... No security concerns that are "out of my control" (in particular of course the host system, and then other VPS's if exploits become available to attack the host through a VPS.)
    Instead of saying "shared", I am usually more optimistic in term of thinking "burstable". With Virtuozzo/OpenVZ, because it is shared operating system, there might be possibility of kernel-level exploit that can escalate user to host level (but kernel exploit is rare). With Xen you can't ever get out of your VPS.

    And yes, host node/dom0 security is a concern. That's why VPS hosts usually leave their host node to bare minimum with tightened up security, and opens nothing but SSH ports to control VPSs.

    I understand that VPS's allow you to allocate set amounts of CPU, RAM, etc. But there are still common shared resources. What if one VPS user starts thrashing the hard drive? That must have an impact on other users...
    Sure. Trashing the hard drive is not being kind to your neighbour. That's why you have fair IO scheduler in Xen to keep everyone in check.

    In terms of security, you are all sharing the same physical RAM. It seems like only a matter of time before someone in a VPS finds a "bug" that lets them access RAM outside their bounds... And of course once they do that accessing disk (and CPU, but that's just a performance thing) can't be far behind.
    With Xen, memory are not shared - each VPS has its own dedicated region of memory. Both Xen and Virtuozzo also have technology to "wipe clean" the memory after context switch, so processes from another VPS will not be able to see stuffs previously belong to other VPSs.

    Again, you need low-level kernel exploit to possibly get out of VZ, and it is not even possible with Xen.

    And then most apps aren't made for threading... For example with a hyperthreading CPU, you often see better performance for turning HT off. So it seems like there could even be server degradation by splitting VPS's in multi-cpu boxes.
    It has nothing to do with threading in applications. It is about how fast OS and CPU can do context switching - it applies to both VPS and dedicated server. Servers usually have HT turned off anyway.

    Seems to me that given the same/similar specs, a dedicated machine would always win hands down, unless I'm not understanding something.
    With same/similar "specs", VPS will actually be cheaper.

    Moreover, the sweet spot for VPS these days is less than $50 per month. What kind of dedicated server and management option can you get for that price range?

    We are getting back to the 60s and 70s -- server virtualization is the way to go. It makes far more sense these days to get high-end beefy boxes and split them up into multiple containers, than getting small dedicated boxes with their own CPU, motherboard, disk drives, network cards, rack units, power supplies...

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by datarealm
    I could do a 2.8 GHz EM64T P4, full gig of ram, and a 150Mbps SATA hard drive for that price.
    Managed? The things most are looking for these days are managed VPS. Like myself in order to get a managed dedicated box I would spend way more than what I would with a managed VPS.. . Now if you did not need the help from the host to manage the box then that would probably be a different scenario..

    The past few months I have seen allot of the long time shared or reseller customers going to the VPS mainly because of all the overselling from many hosting companies. Most of them being use to managed environment, seek the same thing when looking a VPS, I know I did.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    233
    Quote Originally Posted by 10/10
    Im trying to plan ahead, if my idea works out the board could get a lot of trafic fast
    What would you consider 'a lot of traffic'? Some indication of figures would be useful.

    VBulletin can run comfortably on a VPS with reasonable specs with around 100-200 users on at the same time, maybe a bit more if optimized. However if you're talking hundreds of users (e.g. 600-700) at the same time then you'll need more resources than a basic VPS, either a high-end VPS or medium dedicated.

    As mentioned though, the first point of concern is how many users you foresee on your board, and since it's likely you don't know for sure, I would suggest starting off on a quality VPS with reasonable specs, and over time reassessing whether you need a dedicated if your traffic truly gets monstrous.
    Koroush Ghazi
    Owner/Author
    TweakGuides.com
    Currently Hosted by: EuroVPS

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