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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
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    /roof/ledge
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    28,088

    Stinkin' Hotmail

    Now I'm aggravated. Hotmail has once again blocked a server of mine for spamming. Thing is, it's got just one account on it, and they don't send much mail at all. Since the block was placed about a week ago, I've seen exactly 3 addresses at Hotmail/MSN that got mail rejection notices. This means that "large numbers of junk" aren't being sent off this server, or we'd at least see the rejections, right?

    So, I contact them and they tell me to publish SPF records and that will fix it. Already had, it didn't. Then they say they don't see any sort of block in place...only to later tell me this little tidbit:
    Your IP xx.xx.xx.xx was blocked by MSN Hotmail because the vast
    majority of all the email that you send to us has been judged to be spam
    by MSN Hotmail's internal filtering system.
    Vast majority? IP blocked? (I can still connect via telnet from this box)
    They won't send me examples to see what's going on, they just expect me to miraculously determine what messages and where are affecting them so adversely that they needed to block our mail. Looking at the stats for Exim, out of 1700 messages this month, virtually none were to them...under 30...all actual customers.

    We hate them, with a passion...I mean, after all, who hasn't received a flood of junk messages from Hotmail users over the years? Irony, that is.

    Any ideas how I can dig deeper on this box to find *something* that might help me find this issue? There aren't any relayers, the scripts aren't being used improperly (nobody message count is quite low) and I'm stuck waiting again for their support to wake up and reply.
    Anyone with an idea, I'd appreciate it.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    West Michigan, USA
    Posts
    9,687
    Welcome to my nightmare that is COMCAST. Same thing. I hate them. Hate, hate, hate, hate!

    --Tina
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  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Beirut
    Posts
    596
    Aol had my IP banned before , then after a while i already changed my ip so ban was non existant anymore,
    Now for hotmail, sometimes i manually send using my server and get rejected , sometimes it accepts it ... i didnt even bother emailing them , as i still cant see how will they be cooperative
    POINTLeb Hosting Lebanese Hosting for the Middle East
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  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    4,345
    Who cares.

    One of my servers was hacked a year ago by some famous worm, the server was blacklisted by (forgot the name of that site) and even listed as spam.

    Now I email alot of people and they all recieve the emails, because they know I would send them the email (either I am telling them or they are the ones to send me the email).

    I have a forum with around 15,000 users, all get my email without a problem (some do, I tell them check your spam/trash).

    Peace,
    Testing 1.. Testing 1..2.. Testing 1..2..3...

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    /roof/ledge
    Posts
    28,088
    I have to care. This client runs a wedding supply site and her clients are complaining. Last thing I want is an unhappy customer of mine....it's not the way we do things here.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Twin Cities Area
    Posts
    5,649
    well according to 4 out of 5 wht users, you MUST be guilty!

    Last edited by bear; 09-20-2006 at 07:15 AM.
    if you haven't considered chapter 7 bankruptcy, maybe you should.
    eliminate your debt, keep the property you want, most people qualify.
    contrary to popular belief - no attorney is necessary!

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    /roof/ledge
    Posts
    28,088
    Obviously, I have criminal intent, spamming folks with their order information.
    Latest is that after providing samples, email addresses and everything they needed to make a determination, they now asked for the exact same information again. Here we go 'round and 'round. They also completely ignored my request for samples of the spam we're supposedly sending.

    I even tailed the mail log (grepping for hotmail) for 6 hours last night to see if there was anything unusual going on. Not one message in all that time went to them. Seems to me if I'm spamming from this box, I'm hiding it very well.
    Last edited by bear; 09-20-2006 at 07:22 AM.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Twin Cities Area
    Posts
    5,649
    just another reason why im so opposed to organizations that automatically convict without any form of due process. my link to my spam therad was erased from here, but if you search for spamhaus, youll find it.

    this kind of thing happens ALL the time, and oftentimes it happens to completely legitimate people.

    i sympathize with you. heck, i could be next
    if you haven't considered chapter 7 bankruptcy, maybe you should.
    eliminate your debt, keep the property you want, most people qualify.
    contrary to popular belief - no attorney is necessary!

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Darwin, Australia
    Posts
    1,339
    I'm in a very similar situation Bear, one of my reseller accounts is on a server that had the IP listed at Spamhaus and even though the host had Spamhaus remove the IP, the listing is cached at a lot of ISPs and I am pulling out my hair with client complaints.

    It's been one of those weeks
    Last edited by SSHocker; 09-20-2006 at 09:14 AM.
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  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Waco, TX
    Posts
    5,623
    Lauren,

    Please do not carry over the spamhaus debate here, hotmail/msn/comcast is NOT blocking becasue of spamhaus.

    AOL/Comcast/Bellsouth/MSN(Hotmail) have some VERY different methods that are not even CLOSE to like spamhaus, many of them rate limit how many email per IP per day/week/month can be sent, that is a totally different method.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Twin Cities Area
    Posts
    5,649
    we have spam laws. until someone is convicted of such, or until there is proof beyond reasonable doubt, these companies and/or organizations should NOT be interfering with peoples businesses in such a detrimental fashion be it hotmail or spamhaus or whatever!

    this is about as stupid as saying, we arent going to deliver your postal mail because someone complained that you sent them a postcard soliciting your services.

    email is a vital part of most businesses and these companies should be held accountable for their actions.

    in this free country, id rather get 1000 spam emails and get all my legitimate email than to get no spam emails and lose 10 legitimate emails. i dont want hotmail or someone up the chain deciding for me what emails i can get.

    bottom line, someone else is making a decision that effects you and your clients. if someone doesnt do something about this soon, its really going to get out of hand.

    -----

    1. were you or your clients email service effected in any way by a third party

    2. were you accused of spamming or other unproven email impropriety

    3. were you innocent

    4. do you think that is appropriate?
    Last edited by Project X; 09-20-2006 at 10:31 AM.
    if you haven't considered chapter 7 bankruptcy, maybe you should.
    eliminate your debt, keep the property you want, most people qualify.
    contrary to popular belief - no attorney is necessary!

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Posts
    1,739
    Quote Originally Posted by Lauren Stephens
    well according to 4 out of 5 wht users, you MUST be guilty!

    Not really just because nobody thought what you had to say was correct but hey once a spammer always a spammer...

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Orlando
    Posts
    1,280
    What if a lot of smaller hosts got together, and formed their own RBL. If aol or other popular service is banning, say, 100 or more small hosts unfairly, and evidence can be provided, we ALL block email from aol until they decide to be reasonable. AOL customers would be infuriated, and AOL would HAVE to come up with a fair system for determining which IP's to block.
    eVerity.com
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  14. #14
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Twin Cities Area
    Posts
    5,649
    Quote Originally Posted by everity
    What if a lot of smaller hosts got together, and formed their own RBL. If aol or other popular service is banning, say, 100 or more small hosts unfairly, and evidence can be provided, we ALL block email from aol until they decide to be reasonable. AOL customers would be infuriated, and AOL would HAVE to come up with a fair system for determining which IP's to block.
    well there ya go.... we just need to work on a solution. failing that, we need to at least get the message across.

    im mad as hell and im not going to take it anymore!
    (famous movie line)

    bounced mesasage should read
    //we're sorry, our servers are not accepting emails from AOL customers until AOL stops blah blah blah. if you have any questions, please call AOL.///
    Last edited by Project X; 09-20-2006 at 08:35 PM.
    if you haven't considered chapter 7 bankruptcy, maybe you should.
    eliminate your debt, keep the property you want, most people qualify.
    contrary to popular belief - no attorney is necessary!

  15. #15
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Planet Earth
    Posts
    813
    who's still with Hotmail ?

    Shame on you!

    G
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  16. #16
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    896
    Quote Originally Posted by Googled
    who's still with Hotmail ?

    Shame on you!

    G
    I agree

    but unfortunatly our customers and end users are more computer illiterate than we are and hence will tend to use substanard services for email.
    I could tell you a joke about UDP. But I'm not sure you would get it!

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