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09-19-2006, 12:05 AM #1Web Hosting Guru
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Do/Did you trust your host when you signup at first time?
Hello,
Some hosts collect Credit Card information and they charge every some period depend on billing cycle and other provide 3rd party Credit Card processing such as 2CO which mean you don't have to provide Credit Card information to hosts and those 3rd party Credit Card processing companies manage them which mean more secure.
But there is few advantages on collecting Credit Card information by hosts which are; you don't have to worry about login your billing area and pay invoice every billing cycle because they will charge your CC automatically. and it also provide faster processing time than 3rd party Credit Card processing companies.
But 3rd Party Credit Card processing companies need you to login your billing area and pay invoice every cycle, no auto charges, so if you forget about invoice date or miss invoice email, your host account might suspend without you are knowing it.
As customer, which do you choose or recommanded?
Thanks
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09-19-2006, 01:01 AM #2Web Hosting Guru
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I prefer to login on billing area and pay the invoice, I've had times when I forget the invoice date but most companies remind you of paying it. I dont like when they charge automatically every cycle cause I've read alot of bad experiences with it, aside, those hosts who collect CC information allow me to just give the info but I still have to approve payments and not let them to charge me automatically.
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09-19-2006, 01:15 AM #3Location = SoapBox
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I dont like when they charge automatically every cycle cause I've read alot of bad experiences with it
We only started accepting paypal payments because ALOT of customers requested it - but frankly, you have zero protection and should never pay for a service with paypal or any similar 3 party processing solutionwww.cartika.com
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09-19-2006, 01:29 AM #4Web Hosting Master
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Originally Posted by CartikaHosting
You have the exact same rights when paying a host through Paypal as you do when paying a host directly, assuming you have used a credit card for both purchases.
If anything, you have MORE protection when going through a third party as the host has absolutley no way to charge your card unless you authorise it.
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09-19-2006, 01:33 AM #5Web Hosting Master
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I dont think it does matter as long as it is an established business.
Further, id prefer 3rd party instead of a small company to charge my cc. At least a bid 3rd party (such as 2co) is more established and secure and trustable
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09-19-2006, 01:34 AM #6Location = SoapBox
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You have to be joking? What you have said here is total and utter rubbish.
You have the exact same rights when paying a host through Paypal as you do when paying a host directly, assuming you have used a credit card for both purchases.
I advise you research this more thoroughly - paypal and other 3PP offers ZERO protection for a service purchase
If anything, you have MORE protection when going through a third party as the host has absolutley no way to charge your card unless you authorise it.
If you do not understand the payment processing industry, that is fine - but, the fact the the customer approves each and every purchase through a 3PP is an illusion of control and safety - in actuality - whether the payment is automatic or not is irrelavent - the only thing that is important is the channel with which the payment was made... many companies (ie VISA and MC will not accept a chargeback from a paypal payment - the only real exception is AMEX - and even they will not guarantee a chargeback from a paypal payment)www.cartika.com
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09-19-2006, 01:36 AM #7Web Hosting Master
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The whole point of a third party is often for that added layer of trust / protection. They are held to some very strict standards by the credit card companies, they monitor for fraud, and they often spend millions protecting your data. You do not forego any rights by using paypal (assuming your funding source is a credit card), as you would by paying directly via a credit card. In fact, PayPal facilitates communication between you and the seller. Should that not be ample, you can then resort to the standard channels via your respective credit card provider/ issuing bank.
Another great thing about these third party providers is that they watch over their merchants. If they notice continual abuse or complaints, then they will not let that merchant use their services any further.
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09-19-2006, 01:36 AM #8Location = SoapBox
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Further, id prefer 3rd party instead of a small company to charge my cc. At least a bid 3rd party (such as 2co) is more established and secure and trustable
a 3rd party processor simply transfers control from you to the 3rd party - nothing more, nothing lesswww.cartika.com
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09-19-2006, 01:38 AM #9Location = SoapBox
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The whole point of a third party is often for that added layer of trust / protection. They are held to some very strict standards by the credit card companies, they monitor for fraud, and they often spend millions protecting your data. You do not forego any rights by using paypal (assuming your funding source is a credit card), as you would by paying directly via a credit card. In fact, PayPal facilitates communication between you and the seller. Should that not be ample, you can then resort to the standard channels via your respective credit card provider/ issuing bank.
Another great thing about these third party providers is that they watch over their merchants. If they notice continual abuse or complaints, then they will not let that merchant use their services any further.
People, please contact your credit card provider (ie VISA, MC, AMEX, etc) and ask them directlywww.cartika.com
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09-19-2006, 01:39 AM #10Web Hosting Master
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If you do a full year of payment, after 60 days you will not receive any protection from any credit card company (let alone a third party processor).
Secondly, if you disagree with PayPal, you have the right to then move upstream to your credit card company and file a dispute.
And cartika, I know this because I was recently disputing a charge on my credit card. I spoke with both Paypal and AMEX. I have first-hand experience with this and ended up handling the situation positively/within the guidelines of both AMEX and paypal to ultimately get my funds back.
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09-19-2006, 01:41 AM #11Web Hosting Master
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Originally Posted by CartikaHosting
Paypal is no different from any other chargeback and every bank I have ever dealt with will chargeback easier if it is a Paypal payment for a service because they know Paypal will normally instantly dismiss it internally.
Without providing any evidence, your comments here are nothing but unfounded propaganda.
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09-19-2006, 02:22 AM #12Location = SoapBox
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Without providing any evidence, your comments here are nothing but unfounded propaganda.
3rd party processors are just that - 3rd party - and you are handing control over to them - ANY company can get a paypal account, but, not every company can get a merchant account - there is a reason for this...
the OP essentially asked if it is safer to pay the host with a credit card directly or ot pay via a 3PP
Talk about proaganda and BS all you want - I too have charged back a paypal payment for a service - many many times - sometimes it worked, others it didnt -
Say what you will, but handing over control of your transactions to a 3rd party is not safer then paying directly via a credit card - please call and ask your credit card company this exact question:
if I were to pay for something, would you recommend I make the purchase through paypal or pay directly with my credit card - and why?
advising people to pay for a service through a 3rd party is bad advise -
please dont take my word on it, please call your credit card company and askwww.cartika.com
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09-19-2006, 02:36 AM #13Location = SoapBox
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BTW - and as a small aside - how many people pay for a service with paypal using a credit card vs their bank account..
Granted, you still get "some" protection if you fund with a credit card - but again, not nearly as much if you just pay with your credit card directly....
though, I guess paypal defaults to bank account payment vs credit card for no reason at all - I also assume that paypal tries their best to ensure you dont change funding options to credit card for no reason at all:
Before you change your funding source to your credit card, consider the benefits of paying with your bank account:
* This payment is eligible for up to $500.00 USD of coverage with PayPal Buyer Protection.
* You're still paying instantly and securely - without the worry of increasing debt
* Paying with your bank account is instant and your payment will be completed immediately just as easy as paying with cash
* PayPal keeps your bank account information safe and secure through military-grade encryption and 100% coverage of any unauthorized use
Do you still want to change your funding source to a credit card?
then, as if that isnt bad enough, they also state in their TOS that they will cancel your paypal account (and often times confiscate your balance) for no reason other then you dared to try and charge back against them
PayPal reserves the right to terminate or limit account access privileges of buyers in any of the following cases:
filing a chargeback against an unauthorized transactionwww.cartika.com
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09-19-2006, 02:55 AM #14Web Hosting Master
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Originally Posted by CartikaHosting
Originally Posted by CartikaHosting
Originally Posted by CartikaHosting
Originally Posted by CartikaHosting
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09-19-2006, 03:07 AM #15Location = SoapBox
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So are you saying that you should also never pay for anything by cheque? You do realise it is not possible to cancel or reverse a cheque once it has been processed, right?
of course I am not saying you should not pay by a cheque - I am saying the exact same thing over and over again - you should not hand control over to a 3rd party - especially not for a service
using a cheque is a direct transaction - using a credit card is a direct transaction - are you being wilfully obtuse or is there another issue here altogether
Ok, so they should be avoided because their TOS covers them for things that they can act on, but probably very rarely (if ever) do. As a hosting company with a TOS that also covers you from things that you are very unlikely to ever act on (service cancellation for any reason etc), are you saying you are less reputable and trustworthY than someone who does not have that clause?
if you are having problems with this one, it is at the customers expense)
Again, if you pay directly via cc - it is safer (and that is the OP questions) -
for the record, we utilize paypal alot - it is useful in certain situations - but, suggesting it is as safe or even safer (what a joke) then direct payment is false and uninformed at bestwww.cartika.com
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09-19-2006, 03:21 AM #16Web Hosting Master
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Both VISA and MasterCard process chargebacks on PayPal items. Mastercard and VISA have no policy (strict or suggested) dictating otherwise.
If you call and ask your credit card company what method of payment is best, the response you get will depend on what bank you speak to.
Here in Canada, Moneris (who have 3pp services) is owned by Bank of Montreal and Royal Bank of Canada. That means they will gladly recommend third party solutions. Worldpay (another 3pp service) is owned by Royal Bank of Scotland, so they'll state the same. In the states, Moneris USA have a great relationship with Harris Bank, so Harris will likely give a similar response. Afterall, by telling you that 3pp is unsafe they would be telling you that one of their own services is unsafe
SimonEIRCA Ltd, home of The Genius Network™.
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09-19-2006, 03:26 AM #17Web Hosting Master
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Originally Posted by CartikaHosting
Originally Posted by CartikaHosting
Originally Posted by CartikaHosting
I can provide my card to 10 companies or I can provide it only to Paypal, which one is more likely to be safer? If I ever want to stop dealing with a company, I cancel the Paypal account which is a lot easier than cancelling a card to prevent further billing. Sure you could argue that those future billings could be rectified with chargebacks, but that is extra work for me and also causes me problems. I could be going to pay for something and find out that host x just wiped out my bank account, whether I can charge that back or not does not stop the embarrassment of standing in that store trying to pay with a card that it at it's limit.
Originally Posted by IHSL
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09-19-2006, 03:34 AM #18Location = SoapBox
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So it's ok to pay something by cheque when you do not have any comeback if you are ripped off, but in your own words you "NEVER pay for a service with a 3rd party payment processor" even though you do have comeback in that case?
if you pay by cheque - you can reverse that cheque - if you pay from your bank account with a 3PP you have no recourse - that is a fact
Exactly, it covers them. What you seemed to have missed though is that clause doesn't prevent you from getting your money back, it prevents you from using their service once you get your money back.
And again I will say no it isn't. You can claim it is the same or you can claim it is safer, but you have nothing to backup your claim of being less safe.
end of the day - this is all absurd !!!
we are a hosting provider - we will accept payment via paypal, cc, cheque, money order - whatever you like
however, what we are talking about here is WHAT IS BETTER FOR THE CUSTOMER
the safest thing for a customer is to pay directly - either via a credit card or an alternate form of direct payment - period -www.cartika.com
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09-19-2006, 02:16 PM #19Web Hosting Guru
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Im gonna avoid for now all what is been said (ill do it later when i get more time)
cartika..i HAVE to use paypal in order to pay for what I need cause its my only option since Im overseas, I can't do it directly, its not affordable OR realiable, so by far paypal works and have worked for me for the past years!, not so much about 2co which ive had annoying experiences.
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09-19-2006, 03:07 PM #20Junior Guru Wannabe
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To answer the original question:
As a customer, I prefer to reduce the number of middle-men between myself (the payor), and the host (the payee). Therefore, I choose to pay directly via my credit card (preferably American Express, since they have defended my rights fairly against unauthorized transactions in the past).Cory von Wallenstein, Dynamic Network Services Inc.
My team and I spent the last few months putting together the DynDNS Spring Server VPS platform for folks needing IPv4 and IPv6 Linux servers on Xen. Would love feedback, both good and bad!
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09-19-2006, 03:26 PM #21Web Hosting Master
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I don't want to take sides, but Cartika made some very good points.
Everyone can bring up their individual experiences, but they prove very little. Here is why. The ultimate decision for whether or not a chargeback is approved is made by the card issuing bank, not by the customer, the merchant, or the card company. In other words, Visa, MC, AmEx, and Discover do not make decisions with regards to chargebacks.
Just because someone did or did not win a dispute against paypal proves nothing. It only shows the policy of that one person's card issuing bank. There are thousands of card issuing banks out there. No one bank can speak for the card associations.
We accept PayPal as well, but only as a courtesy. Most of our customers still prefer to pay directly by credit card. They can choose to pay automatically, they can cancel any time they want, and if, by some freak of nature, they were unable to cancel, they know they can dispute.
With PayPal, if you dispute a credit card transaction against paypal, it really does cause PayPal to watch your account more closely and you run the risk of getting your paypal account frozen.eVerity.com
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09-19-2006, 03:34 PM #22Junior Guru Wannabe
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Originally Posted by everity
Hence, when you deal with chargebacks for Visa and MasterCard, experiences will vary since you're really dealing with the bank.
When you deal with chargebacks with American Express, you're just dealing with American Express, since their credit corporation IS the issuing bank.Cory von Wallenstein, Dynamic Network Services Inc.
My team and I spent the last few months putting together the DynDNS Spring Server VPS platform for folks needing IPv4 and IPv6 Linux servers on Xen. Would love feedback, both good and bad!
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09-19-2006, 04:10 PM #23Web Hosting Master
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my bad, you are correct about that. AmEx is different.
eVerity.com
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09-19-2006, 04:41 PM #24Web Hosting Master
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Originally Posted by CartikaHosting
Originally Posted by CartikaHosting
Originally Posted by CartikaHosting
Originally Posted by CartikaHosting
Originally Posted by everity
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09-19-2006, 05:05 PM #25Web Hosting Master
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I was mainly agreeing with Cartika's original point, that its safer to use a credit card directly, rather than a 3pp. I agree that its only marginally safer, and thats an opinion based on what I know. I'm sure other people have had different experiences and would therefore have different opinions.
This is one of those things for which there is no definite answer, but I think most of the valid points have been made by this time, and the OP probably has all the information he needs to make his own opinion.
I'm afraid this is another one of those discussions that will go on for 10 more pages, lol.eVerity.com
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