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  1. #1

    trying to trademark my company name and logo

    im trying to do this PEAS thing to register my internet based company that sells game server hosting.

    using their search feature i think under "games" the closest thing i found is

    Computer software and firmware for games of chance on any computerized platform, including dedicated gaming consoles, video based slot machines, reel based slot machines, and video lottery terminals

    and the closest thing under "internet" i found is

    Hosting of digital content on the Internet
    and
    Subscription to a telematics, telephone or computer service [internet] (but i think this is more communication related)

    has anyone trademarked their web based business through PEAS? i know most people here talk abuot webhosting of webspace etc but it must be something near the same industry as game hosting (providing a web based subscription service to use software on other computers over the internet)

    I'm considering finding a good place to hire someone to do this for me. but trademarking your company name/logo is already 400 dolllars initially (i guess there is other possible costs) also I think i might have to register my logo seperately so i might already be looking at 800. then hiring someone to do this for me would be out the roof..

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
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    I have not heard of PEAS. Would appreciate hearing about what it is.

    Registering a trademark in the U.S. costs $325 for an electronic filing. You can submit a drawing (e.g. your logo) along with the name.

    http://www.uspto.gov

    The difficult thing and what lawyers are good at is determining whether or not you can actually get the mark. The USPTO takes the better part of a year to say yes or no. The lawyer can give you odds. You don't want to invest a lot in the name unless you are sure you can get the mark. Also the category is important and requires some study. Aside from looking at the descriptions for each category, the best way is to look at other companies (e.g. competitors) and see what they file in.
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  3. #3
    oh excuse my typo sorry. i meant to type TEAS not PEAS

    on google i found this..

    http://www.legalzoom.com/legalzip/tr...trademark.html

    which is very cheap, knowing that most other places cost in the thousands, legalzoom only wants to charge about 500. it looks like a good deal to have someone of trademark experience to look into this but im also fearing going cheap now might cost me big in the long run. currently i don't even know if id be able to have enough cash to pay for anything in the thousands.

    through googling it seems you can put TM on your works you intend to trademark (which is interesting i didn't know that TM didn't really mean anything) because TM isn't affilliated with any government work protection anything like copyrighting. (the trade mark symbol is the R with the circle)

    so i guess im going to use the TM while i keep researching my companys trademarking likeability and costs.

    reading by your post I beleive you said I can submit my company name and it's logo in one filing so its one cost right?

  4. #4
    Dame price as the actual government probably more for searching though etc...dunno anyways. Did you try under communications perhaps?
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  5. #5
    after a few days of researching stuff about trademarking i've convinced myself i do not have the knowledge to do this. the whole process seems very complex and if I do something merely simple wrong my filing will be denied and I would waste my money. so I guess i should pay for a trademarking service to do it for me?

    I found a few website with slightly different prices, before i choose one has anyone here trademarked their company's named logo through a service like legalzoom.com and have it gone well? also maybe websites in which did it horribley and I should stay away from? (btw im hoping to not spend over 500 on this, if it turns out that these "cheaper" services are no good at all and i should go for the 1,000+ ones so I can have it done right, I'd rather do that)

  6. #6
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    Why don't you help your self and find a lawyer? Yes they are quite expensive but you can still find a lawyer(s) that can be paid hourly (and registering a trademark should be a 1 hour max if you provide them with full details of your company).
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  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
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    466
    Or not do it at all... By using your name you automatically get some kind of protection.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by glace
    Or not do it at all... By using your name you automatically get some kind of protection.
    could you please give me some details about this automatic protection?

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
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    466
    Quote Originally Posted by misterdanny
    could you please give me some details about this automatic protection?
    The only thing that registering a trademark is for is to be able to prove that you own the name. However, just by using it you automatically protect the name. So let`s say you are using the name and another company is using the same name: If you can prove that you used it first and you are using it more than the other company the other company will be forbidden to use your name. However, if it is difficult to prove it would be better to have a registered trademark because that is just one more factor that says you own the trademark.

    It is about the same with copyright. Upon making your website it is copyrighted automatically. However, as it may difficult to prove some companies register their copyrights with the government. This way if it comes to a lawsuit they can prove that they own the copyright. However, not registering it does not mean that they don`t have the copyright. It is the same with trademarks. By using a name you own it even without registering it but if you have a trademark that is one more factor that the courts will consider when making a decision. Thus protecting your name isn`t really that important... It`s helpful but not protecting doesn`t mean that your company is not protected by the laws of the USA or countries.

  10. #10
    by any chance having ownership of the domain which contains my company's full name be proof that i designed the name/logo (since you can see how long someone has registered a domain name for)

    is there any stuff I should keep records of specificaly for any conflicts?

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
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    466
    It does not only depend on who used the name first. Also it depends on how much it was used. I.e. if you use it first but then another company uses it and before you stop them from doing this they have 100 times as many customers/revenue as you you may lose the case even if the trademark is registered. To make sure you don`t get any problems you would need to monitor the internet for other companies using the same or similar names and sue them immediately if they do before they grow big with that name. Better yet, let a lawyer or trademark protection service monitor it for you. Of course that can be quite expensive but that is what this world is like: Poor people don`t have any rights where you can buy rights with money (no matter what others are telling you...they are just dreamers). The domain name itself won`t help you because you can register a domain name without actually using it.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by glace
    The only thing that registering a trademark is for is to be able to prove that you own the name. However, just by using it you automatically protect the name. So let`s say you are using the name and another company is using the same name: If you can prove that you used it first and you are using it more than the other company the other company will be forbidden to use your name. However, if it is difficult to prove it would be better to have a registered trademark because that is just one more factor that says you own the trademark.

    It is about the same with copyright. Upon making your website it is copyrighted automatically. However, as it may difficult to prove some companies register their copyrights with the government. This way if it comes to a lawsuit they can prove that they own the copyright. However, not registering it does not mean that they don`t have the copyright. It is the same with trademarks. By using a name you own it even without registering it but if you have a trademark that is one more factor that the courts will consider when making a decision. Thus protecting your name isn`t really that important... It`s helpful but not protecting doesn`t mean that your company is not protected by the laws of the USA or countries.
    In the US there is a major difference between copyright and trademark. By asserting your copyright you are protected. Registering your copyright gives you additional remedies when you catch some one infringing. Trademarks on the other hand, as far as I know, must be registered to be granted federal protection. Otherwise they fall under state common law. How this would apply to an internet based business I have no idea. How unregistered trademarks apply internationally I have even less of an idea.

    You certainly can file a trademark application yourself but you have to be willing to do some reading up on the whole thing and be extra careful when searching for similar names. The USPTO can deny your application if an existing name in the same business category is "close" to your name so searching on an exact match is not always good enough. This is what a trademark lawyer is good at. You have already expressed doubts about doing this.

    One final piece of advise. Take all of our advise with a grain of salt. This is important and you should assume that none of us (including myself) are experts on the matter. I do believe a lawyer is the best way to go. Whether you can find one that will charge you only an hours work or not I don't know. I have found this site to be useful in finding specific expertise when a recommendation was not available (or the price of the recommended lawyer was to high)

    http://www.lawyers.com/
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  13. #13
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    Depending on the exact name you are attempting to trademark:

    I would STRONGLY recommend speaking with a trademark attorney.

    Expect to pay about $1000-1200 for them to do the necessary research, filing the paperwork, and responding to a USPTO Office Action (preliminary denial) if presented. The latter is the most valuable thing you will be paying for.

    Most online companies like legalzoom.com will NOT reply to an OA. Simlilar to filing your own incorporation/llc papers... all you're really paying them is to fill out the form and submit it for you. IMHO that is a HUGE waste of money.

    I realize you probably don't want to publicaly mention the name you're attempting to trademark... but assuming you already have an existing legal business using the name, you have some protection already.

    Knowing the exact name you're attempting to trademark (and what class you want to trademark the name under) tho would help come up with reasons why the USPTO might issue an initial or final rejection.

  14. #14
    seeing how it is i think ill have to talk to a trademark attorney like much of you suggested.

    im really trying to jump on to getting some kind of legal protection for my name becasue when i initially started i was talking to various lower end cheaper VPS providers for me to start my voice server hosting on. One of the guys i talked to had a reasonable price for what he could give me (he was starting out on VPS stuff)

    anyway he co owned the company with someone else, the other person ditched the company and left it to him,and he coudlnt afford to keep it online. so my hosting provided by them went down. as of the past couple months i found out he was trying to start reselling game servers and voice servers and pratically stole my name. its the same name except he took the first 2 letters of my company name and changed it to a different one. he obviously stole the name from me. (btw yes i'm not saying the name of my company here to avoid issues since I do not have it registered yet)

    he doesn't seem to be very techincaly fowarded with the hosting industry his friend did most the work on his VPS reselling. I do not think this will last long. He did already buy the domain for it (but it doesnt go to an actual website yet) i been keeping track of it. It seems to not to be having any progress going foward so I'm hoping maybe hell just die out lose interest and ability etc.

    I'm worried if the website really does go online and do poorly then the simularities in names would reflect poorly on my company which is no way affiliated with his.

    Today i am going to e-mail him since i'm getting on this. and find out what his intentions are with the name and figure something out. I think since there is no site on the domain yet wouldn't it be better to just buy it from him and tell him to not use simularity of my name again? (versus having any court/lawyer actions)

    I did not realise before that even without a registered trademark that i had rights to my name, I would of brought up this issue the first day I found out about this if I knew.

    My company is currently online and sells services to customers. his website is still non existant I don't think he techincaly has infringed on anything yet since the domain doesnt reprent a company yet, the only evidence of such a thing happening is hearing from him about his intentions of the website on a MSN conversation.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    58
    If you trademark your logo/image, when you want to alter it can you update it without any fees or do you have to trademark it again from scratch?

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lightwave
    I would STRONGLY recommend speaking with a trademark attorney.
    I agree. We just got our trademarks fully approved, and the process started around the beginning of this year, and costs a few thousand. It's a small price to pay to protect your brand from undesirables.
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  17. #17
    i am wanting to talk to a trademark attorney and is something i'd like to do in the near future. but the cost of it is very steep exspeicaly becasue it's to protect a company's name which doesn't make that much.

    from the current looks i'll only be making about 800 net profit this YEAR. which is good for the first year. but spending a couple thousand is really shooting it. and if something bad happens to my company thats money down the toilet (yeh i know you have to take risks sometimes)

    but also if I lose the rights to my name all the time effort money and EVERYTHING i put into it will be gone.

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