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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    WPB, Florida
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    163

    Finding Programmers

    Ok so after my 3rd programmer being another scam, within the last 3 months I have given up on any and all freelancers. Other then corporate programmers, Im in a void between the highend programming firms, and freelancers. Is there any programming firms or companies out there that are for economy jobs, and have a actual reputation and are trustworthy, and have talent at the least. American as well.

    Thanks.
    Run with it.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    550
    I am also interested in this.. We have tried numerous times on rentacoder, and none of them were up to the task. I also have a pretty substancial project that I need coded. (PHP)

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    58
    For PHP I would have a look at this community:
    http://www.phpfreaks.com/forum

    Theres some really great guys that will help you out with more or less anything, an area to request work to.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
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    What about their going rates?

    (will this post considered a one-liner? I mean, the above question is legitimate)
    Permagnus.Com-- Financial site with a human touch

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    302
    You can search lot of doveloper companies out there. Give a try to company not located on US, basically they are more cheaper but make sure you know their company background, what projects they have been involved etc. They might cheaper because the living cost lower than US or currency exchange.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    WPB, Florida
    Posts
    163
    Well Ive gone through a indian "firm" which i think was just a person, and a philipene (sp?) programmer so far, and an american, and all have screwed me so. Just a matter of morals.
    Run with it.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    WPB, Florida
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    Also (I'd edit but im a bit lazy its 12am), theres a problem of contracts and legal issues to actually bind international firms to a job.
    Run with it.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    302
    You might try this www.scbr.com . They seem capable to do your job. I myself have tried their free code. You can create a virtual office with them during project development.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Southwest UK
    Posts
    1,159
    There is 1 way to bind a firm to a job, payment milestones. They get paid when they have delivered certain pre-agreed code or pages or whatnot.

    Try advertising in WHT's requests forums, perhaps ask for references from previous work.
    Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good.

  10. #10
    What type of programming are you looking for?

    I'm both a corporate developmer and freelance programmer. What are you trying to do?
    Last edited by ajs5mz2; 09-15-2006 at 01:46 PM.
    EBCSNetwork, LLC
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  11. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Southern California
    Posts
    749

  12. #12
    I have a lot of contacts to web developers which i already work very successfully with. What kind of project are you trying to do?

  13. #13
    Just to keep in mind, most web developers charge different hourly rates depending on what is being done. For example, Graphic Work is charged at one rate, HTML Layout at other, PHP Coding at another, Database design at another.

    We finally had to goto that type of pricing structure, because we were getting killed on jobs that we alot more involved once we got into them, and the client was quoted an hourly rate below what the work was worth.

    Almost all reputable designers and coders will work this way, you cant expect to pay the same rate for HTML code as you do PHP coding, unless you are paying an above average rate for all development work.
    Tony Holloway
    Delivering Custom Hosting Solutions Since January 2004
    madRooster.com
    Fun Name ... Serious Solutions

  14. #14
    I have a computer business in Australia and have team of programmers and designers which I outsource all my work to. After sorting through the "scam" freelancers I am happy with the team I have. I used ifreelance.com and getafreelancer which I found alot better than rentacoder. If you want a quote done on your projects PM me and I will send you my phone number and we will discuss the project in more detail.

    Regards,

    Darren Andrews
    Moura Computer Services

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    WPB, Florida
    Posts
    163
    Ive tried payment milestones, and that does help with protecting my money. Local college students cant take on the size and time restraints of this project.

    Its a type of all-in-one social networking site, kind of like a more feature packed myspace. Its a big project and needs to be done within 7 weeks.

    The problem with people who outsource and have a "team" of designers and programmers is they are just a middleman, that you have to pay, and have no direct communication with the programmers and designers. I need communication with them, because the middleman doesnt cut it.
    Run with it.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by MadroosterTony
    Almost all reputable designers and coders will work this way, you cant expect to pay the same rate for HTML code as you do PHP coding, unless you are paying an above average rate for all development work.
    Very few freelancers I know work like that. I used to do freelance programming and website design and I charged a standard hourly rate, an hour of my time was an hour of my time. Whether it was sitting drinking coffee and planning a class structure for the project or furiously typing code php/xhtml/css it was an hour of my time and I charged the same for it.

    There is a catch 22 syndrome with php freelancers in that php is extremely easy to get into and there are thousands of new php programmers who have no background in other programming languages hence they churn out insecure scripts that "work" but are a total disgrace and buyers have become somewhat accustomed to that and therefore dont want to pay what a good programmer feels is a decent rate for their experience.
    99 times out of a hundred if you hire a freelancer who has a background in C/C++ or any other strongly typed language you are going to get decent code as they understand the vulnerabilities associated with not casting variables to specific types, using globals, trusting unvalidated input etc.

    Here's a few tips for those trying to find a programmer that should help cut down on development costs and projects getting left half finished.
    When you contact a programmer try and include as much information as possible about the project. Try and envisage what functionality you need and include any plans you may have for future expansion (adding new code to an application designed for one purpose to suddenly become a multipurpose application can lead to a lot of code refactoring and programmer frustration).

    Before giving a project to a programmer ask if they will sign non disclosure/non compete agreements and a contract with payment milestones and project scope. A decent programmer will have their own forms that they can post you to be signed.

    There are a lot of good programmers out there but you wont find them answering posts in the employment sections here or any other forum frequented by bargain basement employers.

    Freelance sites are usually a poor source as the good guys just cannot commercially compete on those sites. Try sitepoint and read some threads in the php/php application design forums to get an idea of who knows their stuff (a lot of them are freelancers).

    If you can get one programmer who has their own framework (all the website basics in place, session control, user management, emailing, templating, db abstraction layers, input validation strategies etc,etc), practices test driven design and knows when to utilize design patterns in their code then I am sure you will be using them again and again and rates that may have seemed expensive at first will be cheap at twice the price.
    Last edited by Ed_Case; 09-17-2006 at 02:50 AM.

  17. #17
    The problem with people who outsource and have a "team" of designers and programmers is they are just a middleman, that you have to pay, and have no direct communication with the programmers and designers. I need communication with them, because the middleman doesnt cut it.
    Yes, I am just a middle man. However, You do have direct contact with my designers/programmers. I am in the middle of installing confrencing software on my server which will be the prefered way of communication, at the moment communication is through email, msn or phone.

    I work jobs so that, all the pre-project work (contracts, paper work and payment methods etc) are all discussed through me. Then you will be put in contact with the "team" for the duration of the project and then you will deal with me again at close of project.

    There is the problem of having to pay the middleman, but like you said finding good freelancers can be alot harder than it sounds. Having the middleman means that the freelancers that are working on your project have all been tried and tested, I have my team working almost fulltime on projects. I run an Australian based company with a shopfront, ABN etc. I have policies and contracts in place which makes things run alot smoother than finding a backyard freelancer.

    PM me if you want my contact details and we can discuss things further.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    London
    Posts
    281
    There are a lot of good programmers out there but you wont find them answering posts in the employment sections here or any other forum frequented by bargain basement employers.
    We do post in the employment section on here, however, people generally get scared by our rates to do things, and to be honest it doesnt bother me too much as it is us people will come to when things go wrong on their budget design.

    Rgds,
    Chris
    Walker

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    543
    So far you have 3rd time bad experience with freelancer, I think best way to hire one of them in-house rather than repeating same mistake again and again and expecting different result.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    London
    Posts
    281
    I believe that being able to contact the same person within a company whenever you need them is important as they understand your needs better.

    Also don't expect quality for peanuts, you get what you pay for

    Rgds,
    Chris
    Walker

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