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Thread: Why not VMWare?

  1. #1
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    Why not VMWare?

    I have been reading about VMWare and its looks to me like VMWare is completely independent of the host's hardware and kernel configuration.

    From what I understand the VM can be moved to another hardware, even one with a different OS, so long that the OS the VM is based is certified for that hardware.

    It looks to me like if with Xen, Virtuozzo, and other dedicated hardware, if you have to move to another provider, you have to rebuild your server completely and transfer your data over, where as with VMWare so long as your OS is certified to run on the host, you can simply transfer it there and run it.

    If that is the case why isn't VMWare more popular?

  2. #2
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    VZ you can move, VMware you can move, but how do you propose getting this file from the host you are leaving to move? It is a virtual hard disk, just like Virtuozzo, one of the few similar items in their approach.
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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by (Stephen)
    V but how do you propose getting this file from the host you are leaving to move?
    You ask them nicely, and offer to pay them, for a copy of the vmx, vmdk and all other VM related files on a DVD.

  4. #4
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    when you get loaded a lot, vmware crashes the boot all the time. There are some bugs regarding this. You need to have a lot resources if you want to go with vmware. Thats why it is hard to go with vmware

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  5. #5
    Most people are happy choosing a good host to begin with. It may be tough, but if your host is on the skitz, you're going to have a very tough time getting them to do anything for you, let alone copy something to DVD and mail it to you.

    There are two other reasons hosts don't use VMWare. It's expensive and no hosting customer ever says "I want my VPS to be more expensive." Also, though I have no firsthand experience with this, I've heard that VMWare has stability issues when placed under server-like loads. VMWare is designed for multi-platform software development and testing. They make good money filling that role, but they don't seem to be interested in breaking into hosting software.
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by advantagecom
    Most people are happy choosing a good host to begin with. It may be tough, but if your host is on the skitz, you're going to have a very tough time getting them to do anything for you, let alone copy something to DVD and mail it to you.

    There are two other reasons hosts don't use VMWare. It's expensive and no hosting customer ever says "I want my VPS to be more expensive." Also, though I have no firsthand experience with this, I've heard that VMWare has stability issues when placed under server-like loads. VMWare is designed for multi-platform software development and testing. They make good money filling that role, but they don't seem to be interested in breaking into hosting software.


    Thats interesting, I know dozens of companies that have virtualized almost their entire server rooms running DB servers, Exchange servers, web server, dns servers, etc out of their vmware implementations.

    In a correct implementation it is not "buggy" and crash prone, it's infact the oldest, most mature virtualization product on the market.

    Also, the reason you don't see it being used for VPS(s) is it's against their licensing agreement for VMWare Server (http://register.vmware.com/content/eula.html) and currently (but should change soon) still against the ESX eula as well.

  7. #7
    I have not tried VMWare Server for hosting (do not know if there are any) but on a test box it is sloooow once a few VMs are running. I think because it is virtualising the hardware too instead of just OS. Maybe ESX is faster but it is very expensive.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by hadrick
    when you get loaded a lot, vmware crashes the boot all the time. There are some bugs regarding this. You need to have a lot resources if you want to go with vmware. Thats why it is hard to go with vmware

    Regards
    Yeah... VMware is real resource hog.

    Even on my test machine with no traffic, i noticed performance lag with Vmware. Using openvz now.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by WireSix
    Thats interesting, I know dozens of companies that have virtualized almost their entire server rooms running DB servers, Exchange servers, web server, dns servers, etc out of their vmware implementations.

    In a correct implementation it is not "buggy" and crash prone, it's infact the oldest, most mature virtualization product on the market.

    Also, the reason you don't see it being used for VPS(s) is it's against their licensing agreement for VMWare Server (http://register.vmware.com/content/eula.html) and currently (but should change soon) still against the ESX eula as well.
    Good points WireSix.. however the ESX eula must have change as it reads you can use it for hosting. Here's a clip from the ESX eula:

    (b) Additional License Terms:

    VMware grants you a nonexclusive, nontransferable license, without rights to sublicense, to (i) install or have installed a single instance of the Software and each Licensed Additional Module on a single Server, unless permitted to have multiple instances on a single Server or to have multiple instances on multiple Servers by the payment of applicable license fees (whether such fees are based on a per Processor, a per Virtual Machine, a per user or any other VMware approved licensing model); (ii) use the Software and each Licensed Additional Module solely for information processing and computing purposes, including the hosting of computer application-based services from a Virtual Machine and provision of such services via an internal or external network, provided such services may not consist of services to a third party that provide primarily computing or processing power (such as utility computing or grid computing) or any computer application-based service that is traded, rented, leased or sold on a Virtual Machine basis; (iii) use and reproduce the VMware Virtual Machine Console (in object code form only) for installation and operation on an unlimited number of your own internal computers or terminals solely for the purpose of accessing the Server on which the Server Software is installed; and (iv) internally use and reproduce the Redistributable Components in accordance with the terms of the Redistributable Components product-specific terms and conditions.

  10. #10
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    I currently work for one of those companies who are virtualizing their server environment. The biggest bottleneck we see is disk I/O. The "slowness" many people see when running VMware on their desktops is most likely that HD chugging along. All our host machines (ESX 2.5.3 & 3) are running a minimun of 16GB of RAM.
    While most of our servers which have been virtualized so far are development and test (we do have a few production), in the next month or so we will be going with the full-blown VMware Infrastructure 3, in which we will be virtualizing production servers as well.

    Out of about 100+ virtual servers, we have had a problem with I think, 2 -in which case the data in the vmdks was still good, but the config file got corrupted during a forceful shutdown.

    Another possible reason Virtuozzo is fairing better in the hosting industry is for lack of a end-user "control panel" in VMware.
    Last edited by CoreBlue-Mike; 09-19-2006 at 10:38 AM.

  11. #11
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    FYI,

    (ii) use the Software and each Licensed Additional Module solely for information processing and computing purposes, including the hosting of computer application-based services from a Virtual Machine and provision of such services via an internal or external network, provided such services may not consist of services to a third party that provide primarily computing or processing power (such as utility computing or grid computing) or any computer application-based service that is traded, rented, leased or sold on a Virtual Machine basis;

    That language there SPECIFICALLY prohibits the sale of virtual machines.

    "provided such services may not consist of services to a third party that provide ........... or any computer application-based service that is traded, rented, leased or sold on a Virtual Machine basis;

    "SOLD ON A Virtual Machine Basis"

    regardless of ESX, VMWare Server, it's against the EULA and I would expect VMWare to be more than willing to pull out the beat down stick

  12. #12
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    Just a note, again you're using the VMware Server EULA.. The VMware ESX EULA does not read like that..

    Just thought I'd help clarify..

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by palmtree
    Just a note, again you're using the VMware Server EULA.. The VMware ESX EULA does not read like that..

    Just thought I'd help clarify..
    If you actually read the thread, you would see that we are quoting the ESX eula.

  14. #14
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    Where did you get that EULA for ESX? When I go to the download page on VMware.com for ESX/VI3, it does not read like the one you posted..

  15. #15
    EULA and the fact that some versions of VMWare used to have huge overhead.

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