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Thread: need MS Virtual Machine VPS
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09-11-2006, 04:12 PM #1Newbie
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need MS Virtual Machine VPS
Hello dear fellows,
After a non-satisfying 5 months of experience with virtuazzo VPS ,i am seriously considering migration to MS virtual machine ,reasons in short:
1- Virtuazzo isnt actually providing VPS ,rather ,its a simulation software that gives you the impression of having your own Virtual server.
2-because of that you can not -for example-establish VPN connections to / from ur VPS, because Virtauzzo doesnt actually provide you a REAL network card,rather its a vurtual one and most vpn applications(such as cisco client) will notice that and wont install.
3-remote access & routing are also NOT possible ,i contacted solarvps support and they said its a common issue with Virtuazzo and it may be solved in the future.
4-ther is NO root access!..on every program i install Virtauzzo says:"Access to root drive is forbidden!" .
5- can NOT install many system or desktop programs like Ms.office, setup will reject installation with message:"can NOT install on terminal servers"!
i had a 30 days experience with aspnix VPS thats running MS Virtual machine and ALL my problems were SOLVED!..this is the REAL WINDOWS VPS!
but..but ..but..they suspened signup till next weeks!
any 1 has any idea about MS VPS arround with good price(not more than 35$)!
Ali
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09-11-2006, 04:26 PM #2Junior Guru
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try to a2b2 , but they are many expensive
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09-11-2006, 05:52 PM #3Aspiring Evangelist
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MS Virtual server is a much better platform for the small business where its used to consolidate 2 or 3 servers into 1. After you begin to host more than 4-5 servers, on most hardware it begins to slow down massively. We tested this platform as an option for Microsoft developers but decided the price that we would need to charge wouldn't be worth running a virtual server.
MS Virtual Server, like Xen and VMWare require that you run a separate Windows license in each virtual environment. Also, because there is no sharing of resources, it, in my opinion, defeats the purpose of the shared Virtual environment. Virtuozzo is a fantastico product that allows sharing of the kernel and resources which ends up with much greater performance for users. As far as the VPN is concerned, yes SWsoft has stated that in 1 of the next 2 major releases, we should see support for this. Version 4 is expected out sometime within the next month or two. I am not basing this on any specific information, just on the buzz around the industry. As far as running Office applications, I am not sure why you are having trouble with this. We love Windows Virtuozzo so much that we use it for many of our internal based systems, may of which run Microsoft Office applications. All of these applications were installed via Terminal Services and installed just fine. If you are looking for assistance, I suggest you contact your provider ( seems like that is us ) and ask for any information on how to do this.
Hope your situation improves. In my opinion, I would stear clear of large shared MS Virtual Servers. Also, I've heard a lot of information that MS Virtual Server will be going away soon for another "replacement" product so keep that in mind when making your decision.▌ Solar VPS The Best Price to Performance Ratio In Cloud and VPS Hosting
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09-11-2006, 06:18 PM #4Newbie
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ROSS! i see ur here!
i disagree with you regrading the following :
"After you begin to host more than 4-5 servers, on most hardware it begins to slow down massively"
i heard that the guys on aspnix has managed to install more than the recommended No with out having issues as it happenes with many ppl ,and ofcourse they wouldnt tell me.
"Also, because there is no sharing of resources, it, in my opinion, defeats the purpose of the shared Virtual environment"
In my opinion ,ALL VPS softwares enable sharing of resources in a way or another ,thats why we have a BRUST RAM and BRUST CPU ,they only differ in level of isolation, that MS VM does it the best.
"Virtuozzo is a fantastico product that allows sharing of the kernel and resources which ends up with much greater performance for users"
After 5 months of having TWO VPS with you ,i wolud deffinetly say its NOT true, i see CPU usage over 80% most of the time ,my applications are slow and not to mention the HUNGS(CPU at 100%) ,my routing software freezes and i have to switch my system to bind to my UK VPS.
After 30 days experience with aspnix running MS VM,i had NEVER had my CPU share used buy "ANOTHER" processes(as Virtuazzo does),in fact i loved the stability of the system, i have NOT had any kind of system restart in 35 days.
Last but not least ,regarding price i undersatnd that if ur not able to install more than 3-4 VPS ,then the offers will be high ,however i was wondering ,how could aspnix afford that?!..as i mentioned above ,they are installing more than 4 VPS ,they had been online with their new vps for the last 3-4 months and ppl are very happy with them.
finally i would prefer to have one MS VM with them in a while ,mean while ,keep my UK VPS with you ,so that if if one goes down ,the other is hopefully online.
Thanks ROSS,
M.Ali
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09-11-2006, 06:26 PM #5Aspiring Evangelist
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Well if you think MS Virtual Server would be better for you then by all means, cancel with us and go with a provider that offers you a good solution. We would rather you be with another provider and be happy then with us and not be happy. Personally I dont like MS Virtual Server. I have spent a lot of time using it and testing it and I was nothing but disappointed with its performance. Compared to Virtuozzo, MS Virtual Server couldnt touch it performance-wise.
If you feel there is a load issue on the node where your servers are hosted, open a support ticket and ask us to investigate. By definition, if the node is using less than 100% then its not overloaded. We generally dont like to see CPU usage as high as 80% and when we do, its typically because of a runaway process or an abusive user. After tracking this down, CPU usage typically drops dramatically.
As I said, if you are unhappy, we encourage you to go somewhere that you will be happy. You are obviously convinced that MS Virtual Server is a better platform for you and that being the case, you should use that platform. We love and believe in Virtuozzo and will continue to put ourselves behind that product.
Thanks for your comments.▌ Solar VPS The Best Price to Performance Ratio In Cloud and VPS Hosting
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09-11-2006, 06:41 PM #6Newbie
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"cancel with us and go with a provider that offers you a good solution"
definitely i will in the near future , but as i mentioned before, i will keep my UK VPS to act as a backup vps.
"As I said, if you are unhappy, we encourage you to go somewhere that you will be happy. You are obviously convinced that MS Virtual Server is a better platform for you and that being the case, you should use that platform. We love and believe in Virtuozzo and will continue to put ourselves behind that product."
repeating your sentence means that you are taking this case as PERSOANL one, while you shouldnt, its BUSINESS! ,i believe my business will be better with MS VM ,and i explained my reasons quite well ,if necessary i can do bench mark tests with you in parallel to have facts and figures prove my point.
My VPS is residing in a country claiming "free expression approach" (USA) , so you can stand and love what you want, and i do the same
Thanks,
M.Ali
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09-11-2006, 11:51 PM #7Aspiring Evangelist
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Not taking it personally at all. You don't seem to have an issue with anyone here or any of the service we have given you so I will take that as a compliment. All I meant by my statement is that we want our customers to be happy and if you will be happier with a platform we don't offer, we encourage you to use the platform that suits you best, even if that means leaving us.
Good luck with your MS Virtual Server endeavors.▌ Solar VPS The Best Price to Performance Ratio In Cloud and VPS Hosting
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09-22-2006, 12:00 AM #8Web Hosting Master
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Originally Posted by Aaton35
That definatly would not be good performance to the end user, I would want my CPU usage to be less than 50% otherwise where's the protection from a slight spike in traffic if the CPU usage is 95%?
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09-22-2006, 05:41 AM #9Newbie
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Guys i finally quit my SolarVPS accounts!!....its TERRIBLE and i will soon write a full review.
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09-22-2006, 09:35 AM #10Aspiring Evangelist
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Originally Posted by ppc123▌ Solar VPS The Best Price to Performance Ratio In Cloud and VPS Hosting
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09-22-2006, 09:46 AM #11Newbie
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Originally Posted by Aaton35
on the other hand you should know that Virtuazzo does NOT actually provide ANY level of ISOLATION for a user,meaning an Abusive user CAN take you CPU share and you end up waiting at the queu!...TERRIBLE!
I am enjoying my new Microsoft VM where i have my OWN level of isolation..VERY STABLE system!
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09-29-2006, 07:48 PM #12Disabled
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technically you are both correct, and anyone would be offended the way you are acting Moodi, as when someone owns a company, they tend to defend it, and if a person believes it is not good enough for them, or tells them it is innadequate, the person who owns the company IS going to take it PERSONALLY.... just my opinion
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09-30-2006, 05:17 AM #13Newbie
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i have cancelled ALL of my VPS accounts with solar VPS as they suspended one of them for no reason ,i will soon write a review so that the folks stay aware of those people.
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09-30-2006, 05:57 AM #14Disabled
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service providers are allowed to discontinue services to any customer who is verbally abusive or rude, especially publicly, so they had a good reason to suspend your account(s). and since you love the USA so much, you should know that!
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09-30-2006, 06:30 AM #15Aspiring Evangelist
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Originally Posted by Aaton35
Quote from your website: "Virtuozzo also allows each Linux VPS environment to run independently of other VPS environments. This means that no other customer can affect or crash another customers VPS". What you have said above contradicts the line from the site. If they don't share the resources, they can't affect each other.
Originally Posted by Aaton35
The isolation in Windows based Virtuozzo is poor, just take a look at the non-paged memory. You have a VPS with a process that hits NP memory badly - ALL VPS' on the node suffer. You will see that IIS won't work and you'll just upset the customers. All because of *one* process on some VPS...
Not to mention the poor lack of security in the service VPS which gets exploited by an SQL hacktool on a VERY regular basis - if you don't secure it yourself (yes, I am talking about the famous SQLck.exe which I am sure you know of). Service VPS is BUILT-IN with Virtuozzo and it gets compromised that easily. I am also sure you have noticed how this process can take huge amount of CPU causing slowness for ALL VPS' on the hardware node and eventually ends in a complete lock up, if you don't kill it in time.
This goes for every single VPS as well. If it gets compromised or you just have an abuser, ALL customers on the node suffer. You see drastic change in performance once CPU goes 50% or more on the hardware node and you should know too that when Windows hits 100% of the CPU (constantly) you can barely even login to the box...
Originally Posted by Aaton35
Originally Posted by Aaton35■ Have a question?
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09-30-2006, 07:11 AM #16Disabled
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the isolation is referring to the isolation of the Kernel that is running windows.....
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09-30-2006, 11:00 AM #17Aspiring Evangelist
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Originally Posted by Moodi
Section 3, article (d) of our Terms of Service as agreed to by all customers before establishing service with Solar VPS states:
d) Early Termination
Customer acknowledges that the amount of the fee for the service is based on Customer's agreement to pay the fee for the entire Initial Term, or Renewal Term, as applicable. In the event Solar VPS terminates the Agreement for Customer's breach of the Agreement in accordance with Section 9 (Termination), or Customer terminates the service other than in accordance with Section 9 (Termination) for Solar VPS's breach, the unpaid fees for each billing cycle remaining in the Initial Term or then-current Renewal Term, as applicable, are due on the business day following termination of the Agreement. Customer also acknowledges that a minimum of 10 days cancellation notice prior to the folllwing renewal term must be given in writing to Solar VPS or the Customer will be responsible for full payment of the following term.
and as referred to Section 9 article (a)
9. Suspension/Termination
a) Suspension of Service
Customer agrees that Solar VPS may suspend services to Customer without notice and without liability if: (i) Solar VPS reasonably believes that the services are being used in violation of the AUP, (ii) Customer fails to cooperate with any reasonable investigation of any suspected violation of the AUP, (iii) Solar VPS reasonably believes that the suspension of service is necessary to protect its network or its other customers, (iv) as requested by a law enforcement or regulatory agency, (v) Customer is overdue on the payment of any amount due under the Agreement or Customer refuses to pay for services under the Agreement Term or (v) the customer is abusive towards SolarVPS or any member of its staff. Customer shall pay SolarVPS's reasonable reinstatement fee if service is reinstituted following a suspension of service under this subsection.
You dishonored your agreement with Solar VPS and as a result, your services were suspended under the terms of the agreement you made with Solar VPS when you signed up for service. There is nothing else to be said here.▌ Solar VPS The Best Price to Performance Ratio In Cloud and VPS Hosting
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09-30-2006, 06:52 PM #18WHT Addict
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Originally Posted by spiritedone
You need to learn how to read and do business
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10-01-2006, 01:31 AM #19Web Hosting Evangelist
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Stop spreading FUD about MS Virtual Server / XEN / VMWare just because you chose not to use it.
True virtualization runs very well if managed properly. Sure, you cannot throw 100 VM's onto one server, charge $10 to $20/each and expect to get away with it, but then again, true virtualization is for serious work, not kiddies that want their own server for less than a regular shared hosting account.
The current crop of processors (AMD Opterons, Intel Woodcrest) have hardware support for virtualization that further enhances the real virtualization architectures of these non-simulator products.
Originally Posted by Aaton35Voicegateway.com Web Services - High-performance Hosting & Fully Managed Servers
Specializing in Virtual Machine Hosting with Microsoft Virtual Server 2005 R2, Windows SharePoint Services, Microsoft SQL Server 2005, ASP.NET 2.0 hosting and Newsletter/Mailing list services
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10-01-2006, 03:07 AM #20Aspiring Evangelist
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Simply stated, my post was based on opinion and personal experience. It's a shame I cannot come here and voice my experience and personal feelings about a technology and platform without upsetting so many people. A simple, "With all due respect, I disagree. Our testing of {platform} has yielded positive results, {cite some of your findings or experiences}." That sort of thing sparks good discussions and helps everyone to better understand different environments and technologies. I have to commend Moodi for taking this approach as he took the time to mention his experience with MS Virtual Server in a positive way.
We are a Virtuozzo provider and SWsoft partner and that is our platform of choice. I am not spreading any FUD here or bashing anyone or anything. I stated I preferred Virtuozzo for the shared Windows VPS environment over MS Virtual Server. It's my right to feel this way as it is everyone else's right to have their own opinions and preferences.▌ Solar VPS The Best Price to Performance Ratio In Cloud and VPS Hosting
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10-01-2006, 05:08 AM #21Junior Guru Wannabe
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MS Virtual Server - No Slacker
MS Virtual Server 2005 R2 if configured appropriately is a fantastic virtual platform. Given that more and more servers are inexpensively configured with multiple dual-core (soon to be quad core) Xeon processors, massive amounts of memory throughput with Windows x64, and the declining cost of storage, it's difficult to see a real reason not to use a Windows based virtual server.
Let's also add in the fact that MS Virtual Server 2005 R2 is 64-bit compliant, which allows it to now take advantage of the increased memory throughput. Let's consider that Virtual Server 2005 is now free for download. Let's also consider that regardless of Microsoft's future roadmap, they built their Virtual Hard Drive technology based on open standards which will convert transparently to Longhorn.
Now my experience with traditional VPS's made them seem like glorified shared hosting accounts, with "Supposed" resource isolation. When we began evaluating virtualization technologies, we attempted to use Virtuozzo on a trial basis when the solution was still in beta and frankly it just wouldn't install properly and required a tremendous amount of back and forth with SWSoft Engineers to get it up and running.
Needless to say we passed on the solution due to our experience trying to evaluate the beta, and due to cost.
One last thing, Virtual Server 2005 R2 resources can be statically assigned (as I am sure Virtuozzo can do also) so CPU, Memory, and Hard Drive resources are always available to the end user.
Just a testament to the scalability of Virtual Server 2005 R2, we recently scaled out a Dual Xeon on a x64 platform with static resource assignments and were able to run several highly trafficed solutions on behalf of Toys 'R Us.
Good luck to you all. Virtualization is revolutionizing our entire industry.
Current and future enhancements from Intel and AMD promise great things on the hardware end, and based on the pre-release benchmarks we've been doing on Longhorn the future for highly scalable virtual environments is set to replace shared hosting all together. The platform management opportunities are endless.
Let's just hope the consumers of our services realize the benefits as well.Fusionapps.NET (http://www.fusionapps.net)
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10-01-2006, 02:31 PM #22Web Hosting Evangelist
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We totally agree with you on this. I disagree on one thing - don't try to convince all the Virtuozzo VPS hosts to use MS Virtual Server. Let them stay where they are.
Let them stay in the $20/month VPS cut-throat market. We don't need their price-wars and give-me-everything-for-nothing customers in the VM marketplace.
Just like Linux hosting has gone to $3/month and lower, VPS hosting is also bottom-fishing pricewise. But unlike Linux which is nominally free of charge, Virtuozzo and control panel have real license fees that even Linux hosts must pay.
There will always be prospective customers that ask "Why should I pay $75 to $100 per month for a VM when I can get a real server for $70/month?". Of course, what they always ignore that at a quality provider offering VM's in that price range a dedicated server is typically $200 to $500/month and the relative cost savings is still true (VM less expensive than a full server).
For those looking at all the virtualization products and wondering which one to use, here's a hint: The "end-game" is going to be about management. All the technologies (Xen, VMWare, MS Virtual Server) are converging fast on features. The management software is very expensive (Platespin, Leostream, VMotion, et. al.) and that is the long-term product battleground once most or all OS (both *nix and Windows) have virtualization built-in for free.
Originally Posted by fusionappsVoicegateway.com Web Services - High-performance Hosting & Fully Managed Servers
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10-01-2006, 03:08 PM #23Web Hosting Master
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Very well said
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10-01-2006, 03:16 PM #24Newbie
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By definition, a CPU load of 100% or under is not overloaded.
I beg to differ, can you point me to where you read that!
I hate when people say, "I've done extensive testing and XXXX is better or YYYY is not as good"
They never tell you what the test was, how it was conducted, or what the measured results were..
Don't believe it, test for yourself.
- RB Darr
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10-01-2006, 04:14 PM #25Junior Guru Wannabe
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We totally agree with you on this. I disagree on one thing - don't try to convince all the Virtuozzo VPS hosts to use MS Virtual Server. Let them stay where they are.
Let them stay in the $20/month VPS cut-throat market. We don't need their price-wars and give-me-everything-for-nothing customers in the VM marketplace.
Just like Linux hosting has gone to $3/month and lower, VPS hosting is also bottom-fishing pricewise. But unlike Linux which is nominally free of charge, Virtuozzo and control panel have real license fees that even Linux hosts must pay.
There will always be prospective customers that ask "Why should I pay $75 to $100 per month for a VM when I can get a real server for $70/month?". Of course, what they always ignore that at a quality provider offering VM's in that price range a dedicated server is typically $200 to $500/month and the relative cost savings is still true (VM less expensive than a full server).
For those looking at all the virtualization products and wondering which one to use, here's a hint: The "end-game" is going to be about management. All the technologies (Xen, VMWare, MS Virtual Server) are converging fast on features. The management software is very expensive (Platespin, Leostream, VMotion, et. al.) and that is the long-term product battleground once most or all OS (both *nix and Windows) have virtualization built-in for free.
I agree with you whole-heartedly to let the Virtuozzo crowd stay on that platform if they so wish with their $30/Month accounts. Most Virtuozzo offerings I've seen are just as oversaturated as some hosts shared offerings.
I was hearing alot of naive statements regarding Virtual Server. I was simply defending the technology in Virtual Server 2005 R2. There are all these misconceptions out there, and particularly in this community surrounding Windows.Fusionapps.NET (http://www.fusionapps.net)
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