Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 39
  1. #1

    Hostgator and blacklisted servers

    Checking out their plans, looks interesting, just wondering about some customer issues regarding blacklisted servers and possible impact on a reseller account on one or more of those servers, also what would be possible workarounds, thanks in advance,

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Earth
    Posts
    8,154
    If you find their IP is blacklisted, you can email their support and they should be able to assist you with that. They are known for their great support, you should not have any troubles.

    Simple as that

  3. #3

    Re: Hostgator Blacklisted Servers

    Yes, one would think so, what caught my attention was that impacted customers had been waiting for quite some time...you can checkout their support community,
    are you affiliated?

  4. #4
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Internet / Colorado
    Posts
    1,660
    Quote Originally Posted by oliveranch
    Yes, one would think so, what caught my attention was that impacted customers had been waiting for quite some time...you can checkout their support community,
    are you affiliated?
    Bit confused, can you post what you are reffering too or where you see the prob? Getting an ip delisted is easy and i'm sure there support knows what to do. Please go into detail if you are posting a problem you see and not just vaugue remarks to help keep the forum useful.
    Like passive recurring revenue you can retire on?
    You focus on building your brand, we handle all support, billing, and more.
    Pressed.net - Start your own Managed WordPress Hosting Company

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Nova Scotia, Canada
    Posts
    4,128
    Quote Originally Posted by bwb
    Bit confused, can you post what you are reffering too or where you see the prob? Getting an ip delisted is easy
    Actually, it is really not that easy in many cases. Organisations such as Spews have been known to list indefinitely or at least for a while. They will also, if the spam was bad enough, put the IP on permanent notice through their system. It can be hell to get it delisted and they are known for pushing the boundaries of acceptability on their newsgroup (where most people go to get delisted). This is the case with many of the anti-spam organisations. Some even charge a per-IP fee for removal, without ever showing you the spam in question.


    Simon
    EIRCA Ltd, home of The Genius Network™.

  6. #6
    The problem with Spews/Sorbs (or any organization that charges for removal or is otherwise uncooperative) isn't with their methods of dealing with spam, it's with the businesses that use their RBLs.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Internet / Colorado
    Posts
    1,660
    Quote Originally Posted by IHSL
    Actually, it is really not that easy in many cases. Organisations such as Spews have been known to list indefinitely or at least for a while. They will also, if the spam was bad enough, put the IP on permanent notice through their system. It can be hell to get it delisted and they are known for pushing the boundaries of acceptability on their newsgroup (where most people go to get delisted). This is the case with many of the anti-spam organisations. Some even charge a per-IP fee for removal, without ever showing you the spam in question.
    Ya those are not groups you can deal with, they are just blackmail, I'm talking about the real ones like spamcop and so on. Hostgator has said in their forums they won't deal with SORBS and others that charge and not even ev1 or the big names will either.
    Like passive recurring revenue you can retire on?
    You focus on building your brand, we handle all support, billing, and more.
    Pressed.net - Start your own Managed WordPress Hosting Company

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Nova Scotia, Canada
    Posts
    4,128
    Quote Originally Posted by bwb
    Ya those are not groups you can deal with, they are just blackmail, I'm talking about the real ones like spamcop and so on. Hostgator has said in their forums they won't deal with SORBS and others that charge and not even ev1 or the big names will either.
    As far as I am aware, SPEWS is the biggest, as far as number of subscribers goes (it was the case in 2004, anyway).

    I agree with companies that don't like working with them for the reasons previously posted. It can be hell. Unfortunately though, because of the size of these organisations, dealing with them is a necessary evil.

    Spamcop isn't much better. Their whole mailer-daemon block in early 2005 was the biggest spam related joke in the past five years.

    oliveranch: You could contact the listing party yourself, should you find yourself on a blacklisted server. Check www.dnsstuff.com for listings. CC or BCC the provider on any communication with the listing party and you might be pleasantly surprised.

    There are no workarounds, though. If the server is listed, it will remain so until someone takes action. Some providers change their outbound IP but that is nothing more than a bandaid fix.


    Simon
    EIRCA Ltd, home of The Genius Network™.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Internet / Colorado
    Posts
    1,660
    Quote Originally Posted by IHSL
    I agree with companies that don't like working with them for the reasons previously posted. It can be hell. Unfortunately though, because of the size of these organisations, dealing with them is a necessary evil.
    Some you just can't, if a company says you have to pay them to take your site off your list when it was someone who just signed up for 1 day, sent spam, and you removed them that is not right and should be illegal. What you can instead do is explain to your customers and urge them to call their internet provider to complain about sorbs or so on. If enough people complain corrupt companies like sorbs will go out of business.

    There are no workarounds, though. If the server is listed, it will remain so until someone takes action. Some providers change their outbound IP but that is nothing more than a bandaid fix.
    Spamcop will remove you after 24 hours in most cases as long as no more reports come in. Some of the others have similar setups esp for larger ISPs.

    Thanks, Ben
    Like passive recurring revenue you can retire on?
    You focus on building your brand, we handle all support, billing, and more.
    Pressed.net - Start your own Managed WordPress Hosting Company

  10. #10

    Re: Blacklisted Ip's

    Many thanks for a better understanding. Appears that if a reseller vendor refuses to deal, you just present the IP's to these organizations
    and may release. Otherwise one has either deal with the customer complaints / move as it appears to be a showstopper if you have a business on one of these servers, is this an accurate deduction?

    bwb:

    I was unable to post a detailed link because of insufficient post rule on the forum, here's an attempt, detailing customer requests for help on blacklisted servers :

    go to hostgator (dot) com
    select support
    select online hosting community
    select network status

  11. #11
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Internet / Colorado
    Posts
    1,660
    Quote Originally Posted by oliveranch
    Many thanks for a better understanding. Appears that if a reseller vendor refuses to deal, you just present the IP's to these organizations
    and may release. Otherwise one has either deal with the customer complaints / move as it appears to be a showstopper if you have a business on one of these servers, is this an accurate deduction?

    bwb:

    I was unable to post a detailed link because of insufficient post rule on the forum, here's an attempt, detailing customer requests for help on blacklisted servers :

    go to hostgator (dot) com
    select support
    select online hosting community
    select network status
    Here you go: http://forums.hostgator.com/showthread.php?t=10746

    Looks like it will be back in 7 hours and off that list, or you can submit a ticket to hostgator's support to remove it now.
    Like passive recurring revenue you can retire on?
    You focus on building your brand, we handle all support, billing, and more.
    Pressed.net - Start your own Managed WordPress Hosting Company

  12. #12
    Does hostgator use boxtrapper? I'm 95% sure there is spammer right now hitting servers with one of spamcops "secret" addresses forged as the return address. I just spent 4 days last week eliminating every other possible reason on one of my servers that was listed repeatedly. The whole week except for maybe a few hours in between re-listings. Turned off boxtrapper, haven't been relisted. If it isn't listed again after tommorrow I'd say that was it.

  13. #13
    There are no workarounds, though. If the server is listed, it will remain so until someone takes action. Some providers change their outbound IP but that is nothing more than a bandaid fix.
    Funny enough, this is actually spamcops recommendation as far as some of the more recent attacks. First they tell you to remove autoresponders completely - and they are indicating that autoresponders are a way of the past (I wish they could explain that to our clients ) - then they say if you are unwilling to remove autoresponders, simply change IP's - which really doesnt solve anything and will keep getting you listed.

    Problem: The traditional auto-responder
    Description: A message is sent in response to inbound email informing the purported sender that you are on vacation, listing FAQs or otherwise sending a standard message - all too often, to the wrong person.

    Solution: Do not use these systems. Inform your normal corespondents of your absence before you depart. Or let a co-worker answer your email in your absence. Publish FAQ information on a web-site. If you wish to dispense information via email, it's easy to reject a message while referring the sender to a FAQ web-page. Using sendmail, this is done in the access.db table like so:
    I think customers are inadvertantly being used to cause alot of the problems, and us as providers are not doing a good enough job at educating them - probably because if we take a stand, they will just goto someone else willing to offer them what they want.

    The reality is - features like autoresponders, catch all's, mail forwards, etc - especially when used in combination are lethal to a mail server and with the intelligence of attacks now, it will get mail server IP's blacklisted - heck, I see customers reporting mail forwards from THEMSELVES as spam more often then I see malicious users spamming from our servers.

    they even suggest a possible spf solution for autoresponders, but, I can tell you - even if you try it, you will get blacklisted by them - and their response - well, we said right on our site:

    Using this method, the auto-responder may not always respond to every legitimate email. It will respond to the vast majority, and it will send much less (although not zero) misdirected mail.
    Apparently that "although not zero" is not close to enough to zero

    I really cannot complain, as we only got blacklisted a couple of times and the listing period was brief - less then a couple of hours each time - contrary to what others have posted in this thread - I am a fan of spamcop - I think they do their jobs well and they are quite reasonable to work with - remember the old saying - "dont shoot the messenger" - and frankly - spamcop is just a messenger of the big corporate bodies which sponsor them and are setting the new standards -
    www.cartika.com
    www.clusterlogics.com - You simply cannot run a hosting company without this software. Backups, Disaster Recovery, Big Data, Virtualization. 20 years of building software that solves your problems

  14. #14
    Spamcop is good at identifying sources of Spam, and automatic delisting after 24 hours is good. My only complaint is that if it is to fight spam, show a peice of the spam. Or better yet the whole spam without the secret mailbox it landed into divulged. A diligent spammer might figure out the spamtrap mailbox but how hard is it to create more? There's no shortage of email addresses that recieve only spam. I'll even donate one.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    West Michigan, USA
    Posts
    9,687
    We're currently battling with Comcast. They were good about removing a couple of our servers initially, but have yet to identify the cause of their blacklisting. Upon much research, phone calls, etc. - we found out that customers forwarding their domain email address to their Comcast email addresses were causing the problem. Apparently, Comcast can't differentiate between spam that's being forwarded and spam that actually originates from any given server.

    The awful part is that even though we've explained this to them repeatedly, they still say its our job to make sure no spam gets forwarded. Other than make a policy that spam is no longer allowed to be forwarded to Comcast, I'm at my wits end. At this point, they won't even remove a couple of our servers because, in their eyes, they've already removed them once before.

    --Tina
    ||| 99.999% Uptime SLA!!!
    Plenty of space and bandwidth to fit your needs!
    www.AEIandYou.com - - (WP Friendly - Premium Reseller Hosting and Cheap Dedicated Servers)

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by IHSL
    As far as I am aware, SPEWS is the biggest, as far as number of subscribers goes (it was the case in 2004, anyway).

    I agree with companies that don't like working with them for the reasons previously posted. It can be hell. Unfortunately though, because of the size of these organisations, dealing with them is a necessary evil.

    Spamcop isn't much better. Their whole mailer-daemon block in early 2005 was the biggest spam related joke in the past five years.

    oliveranch: You could contact the listing party yourself, should you find yourself on a blacklisted server. Check sssss for listings. CC or BCC the provider on any communication with the listing party and you might be pleasantly surprised.

    There are no workarounds, though. If the server is listed, it will remain so until someone takes action. Some providers change their outbound IP but that is nothing more than a bandaid fix.


    Simon

    Bottom line then, if you are a reseller with customers on an impacted server,
    if a co. like hostgator doesn't want to deal with blacklister and cc's to the provider don't work -- move the accounts?

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    West Michigan, USA
    Posts
    9,687
    Quote Originally Posted by oliveranch
    Bottom line then, if you are a reseller with customers on an impacted server,
    if a co. like hostgator doesn't want to deal with blacklister and cc's to the provider don't work -- move the accounts?
    Its attitudes like yours, which I understand, that make me hate a lot of the blacklists that are out there. Its nothing short of blackmail/extortion/denial of service.

    --Tina
    ||| 99.999% Uptime SLA!!!
    Plenty of space and bandwidth to fit your needs!
    www.AEIandYou.com - - (WP Friendly - Premium Reseller Hosting and Cheap Dedicated Servers)

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    24,027
    Quote Originally Posted by AH-Tina
    Its attitudes like yours, which I understand, that make me hate a lot of the blacklists that are out there. Its nothing short of blackmail/extortion/denial of service.
    It's the combination of spammers and blacklists, that will make outgoing email from host's servers untenable. Let's just stop all outgoing email from our servers and let Google handle it.
    WLVPN.com NetProtect owned White Label VPN provider
    Increase your hosting profits by adding VPN to your product line up

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Posts
    3,857
    Quote Originally Posted by Aussie Bob
    It's the combination of spammers and blacklists, that will make outgoing email from host's servers untenable. Let's just stop all outgoing email from our servers and let Google handle it.
    I really wish Google would create a backend email system to let hosting companies integrate GMail into their services. That way, we can get rid of the neomail, horde etc. and let customers login via gmail through cpanel or whichever control panel you use, or POP3. Not only would we have a great email system, increase Google's users but also stop worrying about spam...

    Maybe one day....

  20. #20
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Internet / Colorado
    Posts
    1,660
    Quote Originally Posted by stealthdevil
    I really wish Google would create a backend email system to let hosting companies integrate GMail into their services. That way, we can get rid of the neomail, horde etc. and let customers login via gmail through cpanel or whichever control panel you use, or POP3. Not only would we have a great email system, increase Google's users but also stop worrying about spam...

    Maybe one day....
    Hah are you being ironic as they already have this in beta? I'm using it on my domain.
    Like passive recurring revenue you can retire on?
    You focus on building your brand, we handle all support, billing, and more.
    Pressed.net - Start your own Managed WordPress Hosting Company

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Posts
    3,857
    Quote Originally Posted by bwb
    Hah are you being ironic as they already have this in beta? I'm using it on my domain.
    That requires each user to go and sign up for it individually. They way I like it, would be the host has the power to create and authorise those accounts, rather than asking each customer to go sign up for a GMail account...

  22. #22
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Internet / Colorado
    Posts
    1,660
    Quote Originally Posted by stealthdevil
    That requires each user to go and sign up for it individually. They way I like it, would be the host has the power to create and authorise those accounts, rather than asking each customer to go sign up for a GMail account...
    No no, i believe you can even import a big list of users as well as reset passwords, create accounts, etc. Its really nice to use and includes google talk support off that domain.

    https://www.google.com/a/

    btw, ive been using it for about 2 weeks
    Like passive recurring revenue you can retire on?
    You focus on building your brand, we handle all support, billing, and more.
    Pressed.net - Start your own Managed WordPress Hosting Company

  23. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by AH-Tina
    Its attitudes like yours, which I understand, that make me hate a lot of the blacklists that are out there. Its nothing short of blackmail/extortion/denial of service.

    --Tina
    Ok lets talk about attitude. What would you prefer? Basically trying to learn, research the best way to serve protect customers, rather than slave proxy answering for a wholesaler, with a swarm of accts on impacted servers, who doesn't know how to get out of a difficult situation. Got to have a contingency plan, transparent.

    I'm trying to understand the problems, how they are handled. When I see frustration from users who basically have no control over the situation, want to do my best to understand and mitigate it.

    Been hosted as end user for years by a company whose customer response is mediocre, pricing is average, features limited, but they've got an ethic about performance...they never go down on whatever server the account's been on and I've never heard about this problem from them. Not having to call in, is itself great service.

    You all have years of experience ahead of me, but let's state the obvious: if an intermediary reseller can design a service and find a reliable partner, you know they can spend more time growing the business than taking care of the server providers systems issues --- and pay for the privilege. would not expect a customer to understand this issue, let alone wait for hours for resolution or platitudes. Look at this board, its chock with folks trying to see truth thru the clutter of self promotion, to make a buck on basically the same gig of hard drive and bw, that they can resell ,without being shafted.

    Some of you have been hosting for over 10 years and the best prevention is Gmail? ".....but we got firewalls and 99.99 uptime..

    yes, I guess you should be upset about attitude, but with people trying understand and avoid the problem?

    Ok, now I'll turn on the fan, you all stand in front, and make sure you aim straight for it..

    Peace

  24. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by IHSL
    As far as I am aware, SPEWS is the biggest, as far as number of subscribers goes (it was the case in 2004, anyway).

    I agree with companies that don't like working with them for the reasons previously posted. It can be hell. Unfortunately though, because of the size of these organisations, dealing with them is a necessary evil.

    Spamcop isn't much better. Their whole mailer-daemon block in early 2005 was the biggest spam related joke in the past five years.

    oliveranch: You could contact the listing party yourself, should you find yourself on a blacklisted server. Check www.dnsstuff.com for listings. CC or BCC the provider on any communication with the listing party and you might be pleasantly surprised.

    There are no workarounds, though. If the server is listed, it will remain so until someone takes action. Some providers change their outbound IP but that is nothing more than a bandaid fix.


    Simon
    appreciated, thank you!

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    24,027
    Quote Originally Posted by oliveranch
    . . . Some of you have been hosting for over 10 years and the best prevention is Gmail?
    lol, the Gmail reference was a joke. I wasn't being serious. Maybe I should type slower for some folks?
    WLVPN.com NetProtect owned White Label VPN provider
    Increase your hosting profits by adding VPN to your product line up

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •