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  1. #1

    Your take on: "Quad Xeon" server?

    I recently received a quote for a systems upgrade that included a db server with a specification of "Quad Xeon" server, as indicated on the provider's website.

    After reviewing the "fine print" it turns out their "interpretation" of Quad Xeons is actually two dual-core Xeon processors.

    I've always considered Quad-_____ for any processor to define four physical CPU chips... am I crazy? The hosting firm seems to think I am.

  2. #2
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    Well in theory two dual core processor is the same as having four physical cores. The earlier mishaps were with hyperthreading where there was only one core pretending to be two physical cores. Terminology wise it's wrong to say 4 processors.
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  3. #3
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    Well did you ask for Quad Core or Quad Xeon? :O

    If "Quad Xeon" then it is a little bit misleading to believe you are actually going to definately get 4 physical separate CPUS.

    Can you quote the fine print?

    At this stage it's hard to see who's at "fault".
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  4. #4
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    I thought the same turns out quad servers usually turn out to be dual xeon dual-core...

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Katatonic
    Well did you ask for Quad Core or Quad Xeon? :O
    I asked for Quad Xeon...

    Their site says:
    QUAD XEON™ 3GHZ DUAL-CORE

    Their quote line item:
    "SERVER TYPE #1 CPU: Quad Intel Xeon 3.0GHZ"

    Later on, in both, there is additional material that says "2 CPU"... I almost missed it and thought I had a great price on a monster db server. In reality, it's not much different than the dual Opteron (not Quad Opteron) we have now.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by abovetopsecret
    I recently received a quote for a systems upgrade that included a db server with a specification of "Quad Xeon" server, as indicated on the provider's website.

    After reviewing the "fine print" it turns out their "interpretation" of Quad Xeons is actually two dual-core Xeon processors.

    I've always considered Quad-_____ for any processor to define four physical CPU chips... am I crazy? The hosting firm seems to think I am.

    clear false-adverticing, since there are only 2 "Xenon" in it.
    sue them....

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by pixelized
    Well in theory two dual core processor is the same as having four physical cores. The earlier mishaps were with hyperthreading where there was only one core pretending to be two physical cores. Terminology wise it's wrong to say 4 processors.
    Yes I agree. The amd dual core dual proc 270s, should not be classified as quad proc servers, although their performance is nearly comparable. They're dual core dual proc servers, and not quad proc servers.
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  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by alexmue
    sue them....
    Nah... we didn't order the servers, finding the error before placing the order.

    I was just wondering if I was crazy... I've had plenty of Quad-(something) servers in the past that had four physical processors... I was just wondering if the Quad-Xeon nomenclature was somehow different.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by alexmue
    clear false-adverticing, since there are only 2 "Xenon" in it.
    sue them....
    I seriously doubt a law suit would stick. Maybe they thought that dual core dual proc was the same as quad proc? I dunno, could happen. Maybe you could report them for a false advertising, to whoever handles those reports.
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dluzion
    I thought the same turns out quad servers usually turn out to be dual xeon dual-core...
    Well yes, usually.

    Nothing much you can do really. They may / may not have exploited it.

    It's only because dual core is now becoming mainstrain, by now I mean in the process.

    Sure they could've been more professionally and understood what they were typing by making it more clear cut, but meh. You could've read the fine print.

    Bit of both party's at fault really. Nothing much you can do except take it as a slap on the wrist and move on.
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  11. #11
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    QUAD XEON™ 3GHZ DUAL-CORE = 4x Xeon 3GHz Dual-Core which would imply 8 cores, going on the strentght of that line.

    if you mentione dual-core, then in the same line, quad should not be used, since its duplicating a count, and is misleading.
    its like saying Dual Xeon Dual-Core , everyone here would assume that to mean 2 Seperate Dual-Core Xeon Chips. and they would be right in thinking so
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  12. #12
    Can you get it with some cool 750gb SCSI ID'ed drives?

  13. #13
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    I would say it's wrong because they put Quad and Dual-Core in the same sentence.

    otherwise a Dual Dual-Core system is the same as a Quad system...it still has four processors doing work and a Dual-Core system beats a Dual CPU system in multiple benchmarks...

    http://www.pugetsystems.com/articles.php?id=23

    I'd take dual dual core over quad anyday for the same performance and almost half the cost...why not?

  14. #14
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    I would tend to believe that the company is not purposely misleading you, but that they could have been more clear. Using 2 dual-core Xeon processors will give you 4 cores, which would be similar in performance to a server with 4 single-core Xeons. The confusion begins when they say "quad xeon dual-core", which would imply 8 cores.
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  15. #15
    You will get better performance with a Quad Opteron server and pay less for it.
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  16. #16
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    << After reviewing the "fine print" it turns out their "interpretation" of Quad Xeons is actually two dual-core Xeon processors. >>

    Can you please state what the fine print says, or point us towards the URL of the offer? How far away was this so-called "fine print" from the regular wording, and how much smaller was the font?
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  17. #17
    Its effectively 8 seperate processors but two per package.
    It behaves the same as having eight seperate processors.

    Here is the info from one of our servers with this configuration.
    I can't say its totally unkillable but its got to be close to it.



    Processor #1 Vendor: GenuineIntel
    Processor #1 Name: Intel(R) Xeon(TM) CPU 3.00GHz
    Processor #1 speed: 2993.296 MHz
    Processor #1 cache size: 2048 KB

    Processor #2 Vendor: GenuineIntel
    Processor #2 Name: Intel(R) Xeon(TM) CPU 3.00GHz
    Processor #2 speed: 2993.296 MHz
    Processor #2 cache size: 2048 KB

    Processor #3 Vendor: GenuineIntel
    Processor #3 Name: Intel(R) Xeon(TM) CPU 3.00GHz
    Processor #3 speed: 2993.296 MHz
    Processor #3 cache size: 2048 KB

    Processor #4 Vendor: GenuineIntel
    Processor #4 Name: Intel(R) Xeon(TM) CPU 3.00GHz
    Processor #4 speed: 2993.296 MHz
    Processor #4 cache size: 2048 KB

    Processor #5 Vendor: GenuineIntel
    Processor #5 Name: Intel(R) Xeon(TM) CPU 3.00GHz
    Processor #5 speed: 2993.296 MHz
    Processor #5 cache size: 2048 KB

    Processor #6 Vendor: GenuineIntel
    Processor #6 Name: Intel(R) Xeon(TM) CPU 3.00GHz
    Processor #6 speed: 2993.296 MHz
    Processor #6 cache size: 2048 KB

    Processor #7 Vendor: GenuineIntel
    Processor #7 Name: Intel(R) Xeon(TM) CPU 3.00GHz
    Processor #7 speed: 2993.296 MHz
    Processor #7 cache size: 2048 KB

    Processor #8 Vendor: GenuineIntel
    Processor #8 Name: Intel(R) Xeon(TM) CPU 3.00GHz
    Processor #8 speed: 2993.296 MHz
    Processor #8 cache size: 2048 KB
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  18. #18
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    Cool

    Yes but it is all in the wording. I saw a package from a "special" link here the other day that at a glance appeared to be a 2 Dual Core Opteron (2 CPU's 4 cores) for $139!
    It made no sense because they had a single Opteron for over $100 more on the same page. They say the price was correct but it was for 1 dual core Opteron but they worded it something like "CPU: 2 Opteron 2200 64X2" which looks like 2 64 bit dual core Opteron processors.
    A lot of people are using dual cores for "funny" wording. Especially since dual cores display as 2 processors some shared companies are advertising that accounts are on servers with 4 Intel Xenon processors per server when really it's 2 dual cores. And while it's kind-of close it's not the same when you look at I/O memory FSB etc.
    But companies were doing the same thing with HT (they would display as 2) and at least now there really are 2 cores.

    But I'd still look for an 8800 series socket F Opteron, cooler, today and quad core upgradeable next year...wait until the "ads" for quad cores start popping up..."16 CPU's...
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  19. #19
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    Well I wouldn't mind Dual core over Dual CPU, in most benchmarks they perform the same or even better at a much cheaper rate.

    People think it's like hyperthreading but it's nothing like that, dual core is actually two seperate cores (pretty much two CPU's in one container). Especially when dealing with AMD, I don't think Intel has their dual core as perfected.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by devonblzx
    Well I wouldn't mind Dual core over Dual CPU, in most benchmarks they perform the same or even better at a much cheaper rate.
    Benchmarks are a tool to be used; not to compare. People miss-use the sole purpose of them these days. They don't simply tell you "what" is better, but how, why and where. So that way you can make the adequate adjustments to boost performance.

    Also, got any link to the benchmarks you're referring to? I'm not saying you're wrong, just up for a bit more reading
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  21. #21
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    http://www.pugetsystems.com/articles.php?id=23 is one...

    I can't find any other dual core vs dual cpu benchmarks right now and I'm not going to search too hard for them but heres another site to look at...compares AMD vs Intel Dual Core .. you can also look at their multi-core technology and see why Multi-core is the future instead of multi-CPU...

    http://www.amd.com/us-en/0,,3715_133...l?redir=CPSW51

  22. #22
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    If you're saying that a dual core dual xeon is what you're describing below, saying that is effectively 8 separate processors is a flat out lie. it has 4 separate processors, and has 8 processors when factoring in the virtuals. that is MUCH different than having 8 processors.

    Hyperthreading is not a separate processor.

    Quote Originally Posted by GordonH
    Its effectively 8 seperate processors but two per package.
    It behaves the same as having eight seperate processors.

    Here is the info from one of our servers with this configuration.
    I can't say its totally unkillable but its got to be close to it.



    Processor #1 Vendor: GenuineIntel
    Processor #1 Name: Intel(R) Xeon(TM) CPU 3.00GHz
    Processor #1 speed: 2993.296 MHz
    Processor #1 cache size: 2048 KB

    Processor #2 Vendor: GenuineIntel
    Processor #2 Name: Intel(R) Xeon(TM) CPU 3.00GHz
    Processor #2 speed: 2993.296 MHz
    Processor #2 cache size: 2048 KB

    Processor #3 Vendor: GenuineIntel
    Processor #3 Name: Intel(R) Xeon(TM) CPU 3.00GHz
    Processor #3 speed: 2993.296 MHz
    Processor #3 cache size: 2048 KB

    Processor #4 Vendor: GenuineIntel
    Processor #4 Name: Intel(R) Xeon(TM) CPU 3.00GHz
    Processor #4 speed: 2993.296 MHz
    Processor #4 cache size: 2048 KB

    Processor #5 Vendor: GenuineIntel
    Processor #5 Name: Intel(R) Xeon(TM) CPU 3.00GHz
    Processor #5 speed: 2993.296 MHz
    Processor #5 cache size: 2048 KB

    Processor #6 Vendor: GenuineIntel
    Processor #6 Name: Intel(R) Xeon(TM) CPU 3.00GHz
    Processor #6 speed: 2993.296 MHz
    Processor #6 cache size: 2048 KB

    Processor #7 Vendor: GenuineIntel
    Processor #7 Name: Intel(R) Xeon(TM) CPU 3.00GHz
    Processor #7 speed: 2993.296 MHz
    Processor #7 cache size: 2048 KB

    Processor #8 Vendor: GenuineIntel
    Processor #8 Name: Intel(R) Xeon(TM) CPU 3.00GHz
    Processor #8 speed: 2993.296 MHz
    Processor #8 cache size: 2048 KB

  23. #23
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    those look like dempseys, which have hyper-threading. it has 4 actual cores, but each core can execute 2 threads in parralel, much different to having 8 cores.
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  24. #24
    Here's what I find when performing a Google search on "Quad Xeon"

    http://www.swt.com/quadproc.html
    4 physical CPU chips

    http://www.terian.com/terianprods.asp?s=MP
    4 physical dual-core CPU chips

    http://gtweb.net/rk820.html
    Up to 4 physical CPU chips

    http://www.bestpricecomputers.ltd.uk.../quad_xeon.htm
    4 physical CPU chips

    http://www.siliconmechanics.com/i360...eon-server.php
    4 physical CPU chips

    In fact, in the first 20 results from actual hardware providers, I'm hard pressed to discover anyone that uses the "Quad" terminology to describe two dual-core processors (unless I'm missing it)...
    Okay well...
    http://www.apple.com/macpro/intelxeon.html
    Apple seems to be using "Quad" to describe their system... but use the term "Quad-core".


    In my case, I was perhaps in too much of a hurry and spent little time on the providers site (scanning headlines), and initiating sales contact based on recommendations from two trusted sources. In the phone call with a sales rep, I asked about "Quad Xeon" and didn't specify that I meant 4 physical chips... always having assumed that "Quad-_____" for any processor described four physical chips. I believe the provider is certainly a fine source of hosting and service to their customers... I was just surprised, then irked by what I saw as deceptive terminology.

  25. #25
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    abovetopsecret, the way they put it isn't misleading if they put Quad Xeon, then told you it was 2 Dual Core Chips...that is the same as having 4x3ghz Physical chips...

    Dual Core gives the same performance as Dual CPU...and you could never get 4 CPU's for as cheap as 2 Dual-Core CPU's...so I don't know what your complaining about.

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