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09-10-2006, 05:35 PM #1Newbie
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Your take on: "Quad Xeon" server?
I recently received a quote for a systems upgrade that included a db server with a specification of "Quad Xeon" server, as indicated on the provider's website.
After reviewing the "fine print" it turns out their "interpretation" of Quad Xeons is actually two dual-core Xeon processors.
I've always considered Quad-_____ for any processor to define four physical CPU chips... am I crazy? The hosting firm seems to think I am.
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09-10-2006, 06:44 PM #2Predatory Poster
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Well in theory two dual core processor is the same as having four physical cores. The earlier mishaps were with hyperthreading where there was only one core pretending to be two physical cores. Terminology wise it's wrong to say 4 processors.
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09-10-2006, 06:49 PM #3Web Hosting Master
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Well did you ask for Quad Core or Quad Xeon? :O
If "Quad Xeon" then it is a little bit misleading to believe you are actually going to definately get 4 physical separate CPUS.
Can you quote the fine print?
At this stage it's hard to see who's at "fault".HostGuard.net - VPS Control Panel
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09-10-2006, 07:03 PM #4Junior Guru
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I thought the same turns out quad servers usually turn out to be dual xeon dual-core...
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09-10-2006, 08:03 PM #5Newbie
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Originally Posted by Katatonic
Their site says:
QUAD XEON™ 3GHZ DUAL-CORE
Their quote line item:
"SERVER TYPE #1 CPU: Quad Intel Xeon 3.0GHZ"
Later on, in both, there is additional material that says "2 CPU"... I almost missed it and thought I had a great price on a monster db server. In reality, it's not much different than the dual Opteron (not Quad Opteron) we have now.
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09-10-2006, 08:08 PM #6Web Hosting Guru
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Originally Posted by abovetopsecret
clear false-adverticing, since there are only 2 "Xenon" in it.
sue them....
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09-10-2006, 08:17 PM #7Web Hosting Master
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09-10-2006, 08:17 PM #8Newbie
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Originally Posted by alexmue
I was just wondering if I was crazy... I've had plenty of Quad-(something) servers in the past that had four physical processors... I was just wondering if the Quad-Xeon nomenclature was somehow different.
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09-10-2006, 08:24 PM #9Web Hosting Master
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Originally Posted by alexmue• WLVPN.com • NetProtect owned White Label VPN provider •
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09-10-2006, 08:40 PM #10Web Hosting Master
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Originally Posted by Dluzion
Nothing much you can do really. They may / may not have exploited it.
It's only because dual core is now becoming mainstrain, by now I mean in the process.
Sure they could've been more professionally and understood what they were typing by making it more clear cut, but meh. You could've read the fine print.
Bit of both party's at fault really. Nothing much you can do except take it as a slap on the wrist and move on.HostGuard.net - VPS Control Panel
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09-10-2006, 10:56 PM #11Design and Hosting Solutions
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QUAD XEON™ 3GHZ DUAL-CORE = 4x Xeon 3GHz Dual-Core which would imply 8 cores, going on the strentght of that line.
if you mentione dual-core, then in the same line, quad should not be used, since its duplicating a count, and is misleading.
its like saying Dual Xeon Dual-Core , everyone here would assume that to mean 2 Seperate Dual-Core Xeon Chips. and they would be right in thinking so█ Perigee Global Corporation
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09-11-2006, 02:00 AM #12Web Host
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Can you get it with some cool 750gb SCSI ID'ed drives?
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09-11-2006, 02:05 AM #13Web Hosting Master
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I would say it's wrong because they put Quad and Dual-Core in the same sentence.
otherwise a Dual Dual-Core system is the same as a Quad system...it still has four processors doing work and a Dual-Core system beats a Dual CPU system in multiple benchmarks...
http://www.pugetsystems.com/articles.php?id=23
I'd take dual dual core over quad anyday for the same performance and almost half the cost...why not?
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09-11-2006, 02:07 AM #14Backup Guru
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I would tend to believe that the company is not purposely misleading you, but that they could have been more clear. Using 2 dual-core Xeon processors will give you 4 cores, which would be similar in performance to a server with 4 single-core Xeons. The confusion begins when they say "quad xeon dual-core", which would imply 8 cores.
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09-11-2006, 10:02 AM #15
You will get better performance with a Quad Opteron server and pay less for it.
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09-11-2006, 05:48 PM #16Web Hosting Master
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<< After reviewing the "fine print" it turns out their "interpretation" of Quad Xeons is actually two dual-core Xeon processors. >>
Can you please state what the fine print says, or point us towards the URL of the offer? How far away was this so-called "fine print" from the regular wording, and how much smaller was the font?
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09-12-2006, 09:34 AM #17Web Hosting Master
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Its effectively 8 seperate processors but two per package.
It behaves the same as having eight seperate processors.
Here is the info from one of our servers with this configuration.
I can't say its totally unkillable but its got to be close to it.
Processor #1 Vendor: GenuineIntel
Processor #1 Name: Intel(R) Xeon(TM) CPU 3.00GHz
Processor #1 speed: 2993.296 MHz
Processor #1 cache size: 2048 KB
Processor #2 Vendor: GenuineIntel
Processor #2 Name: Intel(R) Xeon(TM) CPU 3.00GHz
Processor #2 speed: 2993.296 MHz
Processor #2 cache size: 2048 KB
Processor #3 Vendor: GenuineIntel
Processor #3 Name: Intel(R) Xeon(TM) CPU 3.00GHz
Processor #3 speed: 2993.296 MHz
Processor #3 cache size: 2048 KB
Processor #4 Vendor: GenuineIntel
Processor #4 Name: Intel(R) Xeon(TM) CPU 3.00GHz
Processor #4 speed: 2993.296 MHz
Processor #4 cache size: 2048 KB
Processor #5 Vendor: GenuineIntel
Processor #5 Name: Intel(R) Xeon(TM) CPU 3.00GHz
Processor #5 speed: 2993.296 MHz
Processor #5 cache size: 2048 KB
Processor #6 Vendor: GenuineIntel
Processor #6 Name: Intel(R) Xeon(TM) CPU 3.00GHz
Processor #6 speed: 2993.296 MHz
Processor #6 cache size: 2048 KB
Processor #7 Vendor: GenuineIntel
Processor #7 Name: Intel(R) Xeon(TM) CPU 3.00GHz
Processor #7 speed: 2993.296 MHz
Processor #7 cache size: 2048 KB
Processor #8 Vendor: GenuineIntel
Processor #8 Name: Intel(R) Xeon(TM) CPU 3.00GHz
Processor #8 speed: 2993.296 MHz
Processor #8 cache size: 2048 KBFormerly: Managing Director, Hostroute.com Ltd & Marketing Director, Ultraspeed UK Ltd
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09-12-2006, 10:04 AM #18Web Hosting Master
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Yes but it is all in the wording. I saw a package from a "special" link here the other day that at a glance appeared to be a 2 Dual Core Opteron (2 CPU's 4 cores) for $139!
It made no sense because they had a single Opteron for over $100 more on the same page. They say the price was correct but it was for 1 dual core Opteron but they worded it something like "CPU: 2 Opteron 2200 64X2" which looks like 2 64 bit dual core Opteron processors.
A lot of people are using dual cores for "funny" wording. Especially since dual cores display as 2 processors some shared companies are advertising that accounts are on servers with 4 Intel Xenon processors per server when really it's 2 dual cores. And while it's kind-of close it's not the same when you look at I/O memory FSB etc.
But companies were doing the same thing with HT (they would display as 2) and at least now there really are 2 cores.
But I'd still look for an 8800 series socket F Opteron, cooler, today and quad core upgradeable next year...wait until the "ads" for quad cores start popping up..."16 CPU's...New Idea Hosting NO Overselling-Business-Grade, Shared Only! New-In House Design Team.
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09-12-2006, 12:55 PM #19Web Hosting Master
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Well I wouldn't mind Dual core over Dual CPU, in most benchmarks they perform the same or even better at a much cheaper rate.
People think it's like hyperthreading but it's nothing like that, dual core is actually two seperate cores (pretty much two CPU's in one container). Especially when dealing with AMD, I don't think Intel has their dual core as perfected.
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09-12-2006, 01:08 PM #20Web Hosting Master
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Originally Posted by devonblzx
Also, got any link to the benchmarks you're referring to? I'm not saying you're wrong, just up for a bit more readingHostGuard.net - VPS Control Panel
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09-12-2006, 01:23 PM #21Web Hosting Master
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http://www.pugetsystems.com/articles.php?id=23 is one...
I can't find any other dual core vs dual cpu benchmarks right now and I'm not going to search too hard for them but heres another site to look at...compares AMD vs Intel Dual Core .. you can also look at their multi-core technology and see why Multi-core is the future instead of multi-CPU...
http://www.amd.com/us-en/0,,3715_133...l?redir=CPSW51
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09-12-2006, 01:27 PM #22Web Hosting Master
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If you're saying that a dual core dual xeon is what you're describing below, saying that is effectively 8 separate processors is a flat out lie. it has 4 separate processors, and has 8 processors when factoring in the virtuals. that is MUCH different than having 8 processors.
Hyperthreading is not a separate processor.
Originally Posted by GordonH
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09-12-2006, 02:25 PM #23Design and Hosting Solutions
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those look like dempseys, which have hyper-threading. it has 4 actual cores, but each core can execute 2 threads in parralel, much different to having 8 cores.
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09-12-2006, 02:33 PM #24Newbie
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Here's what I find when performing a Google search on "Quad Xeon"
http://www.swt.com/quadproc.html
4 physical CPU chips
http://www.terian.com/terianprods.asp?s=MP
4 physical dual-core CPU chips
http://gtweb.net/rk820.html
Up to 4 physical CPU chips
http://www.bestpricecomputers.ltd.uk.../quad_xeon.htm
4 physical CPU chips
http://www.siliconmechanics.com/i360...eon-server.php
4 physical CPU chips
In fact, in the first 20 results from actual hardware providers, I'm hard pressed to discover anyone that uses the "Quad" terminology to describe two dual-core processors (unless I'm missing it)...
Okay well...
http://www.apple.com/macpro/intelxeon.html
Apple seems to be using "Quad" to describe their system... but use the term "Quad-core".
In my case, I was perhaps in too much of a hurry and spent little time on the providers site (scanning headlines), and initiating sales contact based on recommendations from two trusted sources. In the phone call with a sales rep, I asked about "Quad Xeon" and didn't specify that I meant 4 physical chips... always having assumed that "Quad-_____" for any processor described four physical chips. I believe the provider is certainly a fine source of hosting and service to their customers... I was just surprised, then irked by what I saw as deceptive terminology.
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09-12-2006, 03:00 PM #25Web Hosting Master
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abovetopsecret, the way they put it isn't misleading if they put Quad Xeon, then told you it was 2 Dual Core Chips...that is the same as having 4x3ghz Physical chips...
Dual Core gives the same performance as Dual CPU...and you could never get 4 CPU's for as cheap as 2 Dual-Core CPU's...so I don't know what your complaining about.