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09-10-2006, 01:56 PM #1Junior Guru Wannabe
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recommended equipment for DS3s and OC3s
Hey all-
I'm looking to buy some bandwidth which is available only via DS3 or OC3s. I've never had to buy bandwidth on a telco-type circuit before (I usually pick up an Ethernet handoff). I need recommendations as to what equipment I should be using to terminate the link.
I'd strongly prefer Cisco equipment, as that's where my experience is. It needs to support BGP (not a full feed -- only plan to accept around 20k routes), and be able to take at least 100kpps (in real life, not just in specs). I'm open to discontinued equipment, as long as it's easy to buy a second or third unit as a spare, and the expected useful lifetime is still reasonably long.
Specific part numbers for chassis and line cards would be appreciated. Thanks!
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09-10-2006, 04:13 PM #2Junior Guru Wannabe
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do you have a cisco 6500 already? you could get a flexwan card for it which holds the PA modules for the 7200 series which are available with DS3 and OC3 ports. Your other option is a 7200VXR but as I understand, those arent very good with high PPS.
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09-10-2006, 04:19 PM #3Account Suspended
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Consider the Cisco a 7505 with an RSP8 or RSP16 with 256 MB ram for the router processor; a PA-T3 card for the DS3; on a Vip2-50 with 128 MB ram; and a FE-TX 100 mbps ethernet card.
There are a lot of second party resellers out there -- check out NetworkHardware resell in Santa Barbara if you are looking for extra support / extra warranty albeit at a higher price.
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09-10-2006, 04:44 PM #4Junior Guru Wannabe
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Originally Posted by toddbLast edited by unavaca; 09-10-2006 at 04:53 PM.
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09-10-2006, 04:47 PM #5Junior Guru Wannabe
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Originally Posted by Dennis Nugent
How would you compare this solution to a 7200VXR?
Would you use this for an OC3 circuit, or only a DS3? What's the proper line card for an OC3? I'm seeing all different kinds of OC3 cards -- not sure what's the right one for my needs.Last edited by unavaca; 09-10-2006 at 04:57 PM.
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09-10-2006, 05:34 PM #6Web Hosting Master
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What's your L2 transport protocol from the carrier? Frame? ATM? HDLC?
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09-10-2006, 05:36 PM #7Junior Guru Wannabe
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Originally Posted by spaethco
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09-10-2006, 06:07 PM #8Web Hosting Master
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Originally Posted by unavacaEric Spaeth
Enterprise Network Engineer :: Hosting Hobbyist :: Master of Procrastination
"The really cool thing about facts is they remain true regardless of who states them."
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09-10-2006, 06:09 PM #9Junior Guru Wannabe
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Originally Posted by spaethco
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09-10-2006, 06:26 PM #10Web Hosting Master
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Originally Posted by unavacaEric Spaeth
Enterprise Network Engineer :: Hosting Hobbyist :: Master of Procrastination
"The really cool thing about facts is they remain true regardless of who states them."
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09-10-2006, 06:29 PM #11Junior Guru Wannabe
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Originally Posted by spaethco
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09-10-2006, 07:32 PM #12The least among you.
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For your requirements, 7206 non-VXR would work just fine. NPE-150s will do 128MB of RAM, easily enough for a mere 20k routes. Don't waste your money on legacy 7500s unless you have space to burn and redundant RPs are a must.
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09-10-2006, 07:33 PM #13Junior Guru Wannabe
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Originally Posted by tical
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09-10-2006, 07:57 PM #14The least among you.
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Originally Posted by unavaca
As for whether it will handle 100kpps, the answer is probably yes, just not the way you're thinking of. 100kpps consisting of half push and half pull of normal looking traffic should be no sweat. But 100kpps of incoming DoS == death to your NPE. If that's the type of traffic handling you're after, step up to an NPE-300, or one of the VXR chassis with an NPE-400 if necessary. Alternatively, you could just get a Juniper M5 if it's budgetary. You'll never have to worry about upgrading anything on that platform to handle 100kpps any way you like it; set it and forget it.
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09-10-2006, 08:01 PM #15Account Suspended
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Likely to set off some discussion: IMHO a Cisco 7206 non-VXR with an NPE-150 will _NOT_ do
at least 100kpps (in real life, not just in specs)
You propably (guessing here) want 100kpps outbound.
IMHO I would never do a 7206 non-VXR with an NPE-150 for multiple OC3s with BGP; and access-lists. Yeah, I know, he didnt say he was going to need access-lists, but he did say real life.
Spacewise a 7505 is only about 4 in. taller then a 7206
There are a LOT of 7505s out there and it is a small price differential vs an equivalent 7206.
The 7206 and the 7505 will handle the OC3 card, examples include PA-A3-OC3SMI, PA-A3-OC3SMM, etc As stated above, for OC3 avoid ATM and MM fiber.
You probably wont do HDLC encapsulation unless your carrier is also running Cisco routers.
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09-10-2006, 08:06 PM #16Junior Guru Wannabe
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Yeah, BGP and ACLs are crucial in real-world operation
I suppose I'll be looking at 7505 (will an RSP4 fly for this?) or a 7206 non-VXR with an NPE-300. The NPE-300 appears to be on-par with an RSP4...
Sound about right?
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09-10-2006, 08:26 PM #17The least among you.
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Originally Posted by Dennis Nugent
As for access lists, I'd agree, but not BGP. It makes no difference how you're populating routes into the FIB, whether static, OSPF, BGP, whatever.
IMHO I would never do a 7206 non-VXR with an NPE-150 for multiple OC3s with BGP; and access-lists. Yeah, I know, he didnt say he was going to need access-lists, but he did say real life.
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09-10-2006, 10:44 PM #18Web Hosting Master
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Just for your info, ATT and Savvis will most likely handoff POS OC3/12 at Level3 Sunnyvale
http://Ethr.net jay@ethr.net
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09-10-2006, 11:26 PM #19Junior Guru Wannabe
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Originally Posted by tical
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09-13-2006, 02:21 AM #20Aspiring Evangelist
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If you go with a 7206 get at LEAST an NPE-400. I would go with an NPE-G1.
There is a pretty high overhead with a POS-OC3 card in this chassis. The POS to Ethernet conversion is done in the NPE and an OC3 at 125M or so will peg the CPU on an NPE-400. and will put an NPE-G1 at about 50% cpu. This is with 1 full BGP table, no ACLs, 4 route maps ONLY doing prepends and BGP bogon filtering set up.
A 7505 would handle this MUCH better. I would go eith a 7505 and a VIP2-50 dedicated to the OC3 card. then another card for the ethernet ports. Possable the GigE card or another VIP2-50 with a PA-2FE dual ethernet card in it.Rock solid hosting and dedicated servers since 1998!
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09-17-2006, 10:55 AM #21Newbie
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Originally Posted by vantage255
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09-22-2006, 08:03 AM #22Web Hosting Master
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I have some experience with the RAD Direct Gig-E - OC-3 bridge/converters, since we used them prior to upgrading one of our transit circuits to OC-12. They work well for the most part, but they do increase latency a bit and you won't be able to get in and manage them in-band if you are pushing more than 50Mbps or so. Out of band management was a little spotty as well, but we rarely had to do anything with the box anyway. They did seem to handle high traffic levels well though - prior to our upgrade, we were maxing our OC-3 at times and I don't remember ever having to reboot or do anything to the RAD box on either end of the circuit - they just ran. I can't speak for the DS-3 -> fastE converters mentioned above since I've not used those, but the OC-3 -> Gig-E ones worked well for us. One other thing to consider is that you will likely need one of these boxes on each end of your circuit - you won't be able to take an OC-3 or DS-3 circuit directly from your provider's router and pipe it in to your RAD box - it has to go like this:
Providers Router ---> Fast / Gig E ---> RAD Box ---> OC3/DS3 ---> RAD Box ---> Fast / Gig E ---> Your Router or Switch
In any case, I know you stated that you would prefer a Cisco device, but have you looked into something like a Foundry Bigiron 4k or similar? There are OC-3 / OC-12 PoS modules available for them, and they are about 1/2 the cost of a 7200VXR. I don't believe they have the same overhead problems as the NPE-400/7200VXR's dealing with traffic on a PoS module. I'm not enough of a networking expert to say if that hardware would work for your situation, but it's always nice to look at some other options.
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09-25-2006, 11:43 AM #23Web Hosting Guru
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We run a Cisco 7301 for our Internet2 OC3 using a POS SFP for the fiber link.
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09-25-2006, 02:34 PM #24Junior Guru Wannabe
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The 7301 looked good, but it was 10-20k new, and there was no used market for it. I'm looking to spend up to $4k for a DS3 setup; ideally around $2k
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09-25-2006, 05:01 PM #25Web Hosting Master
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Originally Posted by unavacaEric Spaeth
Enterprise Network Engineer :: Hosting Hobbyist :: Master of Procrastination
"The really cool thing about facts is they remain true regardless of who states them."