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  1. #1

    There are Thief's among Us

    Yes it's True

    I paid Paradise-Designs.net On Jun 3, 2002 for this design :

    http://www.paradise-designs.net/client/ihosted/

    To be converted to my site name and format as seen in this final screenshot that I took : http://209.151.72.7/final.gif

    the final screenshot I seen before I paid , and I was told 24-48 hrs to convert it to my site format etc . Well 4 days after payment and I had nothing to show so I ICQ'ed ParadiseDesigns on ICQ and asked what was up and still no word on it being finished on day 4 , so I asked for a refund. 2 days of heated disscussion proceeded and finally what I thought was a resolution to be paid today Tuesday June 11th as promised and still no refund.

    The parties involed in this Dispute are Tim of Paradise Design a.k.a TIMPD on WHT and Tom of http://www.webdefinity.com who is supposedly the orgnial designer in which Tim of PD paid to finish this design.

    Well after 2 days of heated debate and Tim basically claiming no responsabilty to the situation as the person I worked and made all the details with and even paid for this design. Tom of http://www.webdefinity.com I thought was a stand up person and said he would refund the money on Tuesday June 11th and the situation would be done and over with ..so I thought

    It's to the point almost 9 days and they have my Money I have no design Isn't this fraud Folks ? I clearly stated in the payment on what the terms were on delivery of my money and what the money was for and now I am gonna have to waste my time it seems to pursue Legal means of getting my money back

    If you ahve no clue about the total situation , here this should get you up to speed :

    http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showth...threadid=53833

    http://www.yaxay.com/yack/showthread...&threadid=3448

    What should I do , go with my Lawyer or Wait on pay pal to piss around and pray for my money back ? thanks for listening to me I am really upset right now. Should I report paradise designs too www.bbb.org or www.fbi.gov ?
    I know some people maybe like who cares , but when you steal from me , it steals food from my kids mouth too

    thanks for listening
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  2. #2
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    I wouldn't wait on

    paypal if you do you are dreaming.

    I paid a guy from here for a design only to be find out a few days later it was a rip he stole from another site and resold to me as his own. I even have the orginal designer backing me up. Paypal's answer if you can beleive it, was they do not get in the middle of disputes about the quailty of the merchandise.
    I wrote them back and explained the quality was great I loved the design and quailty of the work it was just too bad it was STOLEN.

    No response from them.

    As far as Tim goes I think he showed what kind of person he was in the last thread.

    Monte
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  3. #3
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    well in truth, I believe there is another thread about this. But if you did your homework ( which is not easy ) you would have fond out that the designs take a few weeks unless he tells you otherwise.

    that is what I found out seaching the forums about him.

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  4. #4
    I totally agree Monte on both points and I really don't wanna mess with them as they drag there feet . so basically I am screwed unless I wanna spend big $$ for a lawyer
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  5. #5
    ADEhost
    the final pic is the picture before I paid and if you read some of the other threads I directly quoted tim on His 24-48 hr promise. this deal had been in the works for 3-4 days before I paid and that final shot is 2 days before I paid in full. and another 4 days of no contact and poor promises.

    20571546 6/3/2002 3:34 PM okay give me a min 300.00 on the way

    20571546 6/3/2002 3:37 PM you have cash

    Paradise 6/3/2002 3:38 PM I'm looking

    20571546 6/3/2002 3:39 PM LoL

    Paradise 6/3/2002 3:39 PM heh

    Paradise 6/3/2002 4:05 PM as soon as he comes on I will have him take
    care of you



    20571546 6/3/2002 4:05 PM K ..that would be great

    Paradise 6/3/2002 7:24 PM hey

    Paradise 6/3/2002 7:24 PM he is working on it

    Paradise 6/3/2002 7:24 PM and said you would have it within the next 24 hours if that
    Last edited by phantasywork; 06-12-2002 at 01:10 AM.
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  6. #6
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    how did you pay them via paypal, from your credit card or your bank account?

    If it is by your credit card as much as I hate to say it, issue a chargeback. Personally I read every post in that other thread and think that it is crazy what was done to you. I feel bad for you, but I think that you do not have any other recourse but to issue a chargeback. If you paid the money out of your bank account, then I would advise you to call the bank asap, and see if they can put any sort of stop payment on the transaction. I wish you luck, but let us know how it goes.

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  7. #7
    I wish it was one of those 2 options , it was instant transfer from my pay pal funds unfortunately
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  8. #8
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    In that other thread didn't tim say that you would be refunded today, on Tuesday? I think I remember reading that, but I don't want to search through 200 posts to find out if that is right or not. I would try to contact tim again, and see what he says. I have worked with Tim in the past and he appears to be a stand up guy, have him refund the money and the designer refund tim. See if that will work.

    -Steven
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  9. #9
    I have already tried that too

    what is amazing is he had money to pay for a project he had someone do for him at yaxay but yet he told me he didnt have the money to refund me my money.
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  10. #10
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    Originally posted by phantasywork
    I have already tried that too

    what is amazing is he had money to pay for a project he had someone do for him at yaxay but yet he told me he didnt have the money to refund me my money.
    Hmmmmh
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  11. #11
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    Originally posted by insiderhosting
    In that other thread didn't tim say that you would be refunded today, on Tuesday? I think I remember reading that, but I don't want to search through 200 posts to find out if that is right or not. I would try to contact tim again, and see what he says. I have worked with Tim in the past and he appears to be a stand up guy, have him refund the money and the designer refund tim. See if that will work.

    -Steven
    I read most of that thread, and I think that it was said that the refund would be made by today.
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  12. #12
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    http://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr...eloc=0&loc=345

    look through those questions, Paypal has protection policies for both buyers and sellers. I had this kind of thing happen to my paypay account about last year where several payments for a service I provided were in the process of a chargeback (it was paid by credit card tho) and paypal froze my account until this was done. They took away the payments for my service as well as the fees for the transaction on my side. Paypal only gave me a chance to show a proof of delivery of my product all the while the payments were for a service that I provided to a former client. They never listened to anything I had to say, and they said that a charge back was a chargeback and I had to contact the buyer to resolve the dispute. Of course, I contacted the buyer - my paypal account reflected a negative balance for about a month before the buyer finally paid for the service I provided for him.

    I thought at that time, PayPal wasn't very good with seller protection policy - I am not sure that if this is the case now - but you can make a formal complaint to paypal and that should get things going for you as a buyer.
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  13. #13
    well I filed a buyer complaint with pay pal , I really doubt it will do any good but we shall see

    I really think TIm thinks this is a game and he was willing to weasle his way out by getting tom to tell me he would refund me and now that Tom has fell through on his promise ..Now what will Tim do as I paid him for the design

    I mean really if you fall in the store because the floor is wet you don't sue the Janitor , you Sue the company right
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  14. #14
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    Originally posted by phantasywork
    well I filed a buyer complaint with pay pal , I really doubt it will do any good but we shall see
    not sure what paypal has done to balance the protection policies for both sellers and buyers - but when I had the problem with a buyer and paypal, paypal just sided with the buyer even though I sent numerous parties at Paypal emails regarding the situation. The only problem I can see with the complaint right now is if you paid and classified the payment for 'money being sent for service' - for my past situation, paypal required me to send them proof of delivery of a product through a tracking number of some sort - for service, I don't know how paypal will ask for evidence of services rendered etc.

    In either case, since you never received a design - you should get your money back within a week since paypal gives the seller couple of days to provide them with evidence of the sold item.

    g'luck
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  15. #15
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    Ive filed a paypal fraud complaint once before when I paid for a few machines and never received them. The buyer apparantly used all fraudulent details on paypal to register and emptied their account and broke off all ties. Needles to say they did try to contact the guy and get the money back but it was no use. They made several attempts though and I was happy that I had someone at least fighting for me. If the guy was still online at paypal or even had money, a card, or a bank account connected to his paypal account I would have received my funds back or at least a portion of them.
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  16. #16
    I feel your pain Jag , that's why I am not waiting anymore , or for any more promises of a refund .
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  17. #17
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    sad, sad, sad
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  18. #18
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    Originally posted by phantasywork
    I feel your pain Jag , that's why I am not waiting anymore , or for any more promises of a refund .
    Why would anyone risk their reputation for a lousy $300.00 ?? I'm sure there's a good explanation for it. But then again, I'm an optimist.
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  19. #19
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    I have a general question, in all cases you have posibillity to contact your lawyer or to issue a chargeback, is it not possible simply to go to the police station?? Or is it different in the US?
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  20. #20
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    Personally I think its sick that people are alowed to get away with this. However, for a very small cost you could take him to small claims court. Doesn't cost a whole lot and you do have to represent yourself, but it does at least bring it before a judge. I'm not sure of the entire process but keep records of the payments made and keep records of any conversations and promises on both the refunds and what was paid, present it to the judge, state your case and be done with it.
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  21. #21
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    Angel, you could goto the police about it since its fraud, so I'd say call his local PD and if nothing else file a report about it as well as go through the process of small claims court.
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  22. #22
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    Here's some useful information about small claims court.

    http://www.peopleslawyer.net/smallclaims/
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  23. #23
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    Since you are

    dealing with a minor 15 or 16 no one is sure which age Tim is, there is nothing you can do about it. You can't enforce a contract with a kid even if he lied and said he was 33.
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  24. #24
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    Monte, he dealt with a "company" and Tim was the representative of that company. Not only that but I'm sure it can be proven that Tim misled people about his age. From what I understand someone else signs for Tim as far as the company goes, which means there is a liable party involved, and then again, with the court system now a days you could probably sue his parents for being negligent of their child’s fraudulent activities. Stranger things have happened. So please, none of that "he's a kid he can't be touched" crap. He committed a crime, its called fraud, period. It’s really simple.
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  25. #25
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    Ok well that was a neat search. Paradise Design's isn't a registered company, either Inc or LLC in the state of California.. Which means if they are Inc'd or LLC'd anywhere else they are operating illegally within CA (if I remember the CA laws correctly foreign corporations with a nexus within CA must register with the state). Of course he could just have a local county license. I'll check but I doubt they have that information online but we'll see.

    On another note there is a "PARADISE DESIGNS, INC." In CA so me thinks someone is infringing on someone’s mark.

    http://kepler.ss.ca.gov/corpdata/Sho...umber=C1821086

    Anyhow back to the digging....

    From what I can tell in his area "San Bernardino, CA". Assuming he's in an unincorporated area all he has to file is a yearly Business Property Statement and a DBA. There are a few other things but those pertain to having actual office buildings. So I'll call the county courthouse just to end my curiosity to see if he's even registered as a legal biz or not. Hope this info helps you in your quest to get your $ back.
    Last edited by DanielP; 06-12-2002 at 11:10 AM.
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  26. #26
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    Well

    go back to the last thread on this topic, I am to busy to pull it all up again and read the post on contractual law I did with references to where I got the info and you will clearly see you cannot hold his parents responsable and even if a minor lies about their age they cannot be held to the contract.

    Tim has lead people to beleive he is 33 but he is only 15 or 16 he owns the company so therefore any dealings with him means if he defaults you are stuck. Sure you can try and take him to court but since he is a minor you are stuck. Just as if a minor breaks the law there is very little the criminal courts can do to them the same holds true with civil courts.

    Buyer beware when dealing with the under 18's.
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  27. #27
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    Monte, in the last thread I remember several occasions that someone mentioned he did indeed have someone over the age of 18 signing all of his papers... if he didn't then who signed for his bank account and merchant papers.. I'm in the process of digging as much information up as possible to identify that person to hopefully help the original thread starter. While someone under 18 cannot be held to a contract by themselves, this is a matter of the company "Paradise Designs" not providing services rendered. So as long as the company is legal (registered) by someone else, then there is someone to go after. If the company is not registered, and is not legal, and he has defrauded about his age, then all that can be done is inform anyone he does business with (merchant, servers he leases etc). But "somebody’s" got to sign for that unless the companies he deals with are idiots themselves...

    But also if he does not have a business license then he is conducting a fair amount of business without a license in CA and most states frown on that and will send the tax collectors after him. So either way something can and will be done. Just depends on how direct or indirect it is.
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  28. #28
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    who ya gonna call?

    Contact the Attorney General's office in your state and file a complaint. You don't need to hire your own lawyer, your state has already hired them for you.

    Consumer protection is their job.
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  29. #29
    some good idea's here I will keep you all updated .

    I am trying to keep the faith but it's getting harder each passing momment
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  30. #30
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    Hello,
    I left out Tuesday and I'm sorry for not replying to this post before. I will be talking to the designer to see if he has refunded. If not I will glady have to refund him without a complain.
    Last edited by TimPD; 06-13-2002 at 03:48 AM.
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  31. #31

    Hay Tim PD

    How old are you im sure we are all interested to know?
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  32. #32
    I'm sure what happend is very complicated, but who am i to know?? . My thinking is that Tom set out for Tim to sale this design, tim took in the money via paypal and sent it to Tom. Now as we all know you cant get an refund instantly, if he already clicks accept money etc etc. So now Tom probably feels that he shouldn't have to pay back in full, because he never got ful AKA paypal taxes, yes we all know those. So now tom refuses to pay tim back, which tim refuses to pay phantasy back becayse tom wont pay time back. Who should the blame be in this situation ??¿¿ I'll let you guys conclude this as what you feel, and with your opinion, but this is just an educated guess that i took.
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  33. #33
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    http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showth...threadid=53833

    long thread that explains the whole story *sigh*
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  34. #34
    Hehe, yes i've already been in and out of it. That thread is pretty much posted on the back of my hand. That is both fact and fiction but in a nutshell, the above post is what i realy think happend, but then again that is me.

    DONT EAT THE PUDDING
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  35. #35

    Re: Hay Tim PD

    Originally posted by TimPD
    Hello,
    I left out Tuesday[no comma] and I'm sorry for not replying to this post before. I will be talking to the designer tos ee if he has refunded[no period] if not I will glady [have to is not needed] refund him without a complain.

    Originally posted by Choppy
    How old are you im sure we are all interested to know?
    I would like to know the same.
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  36. #36
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    Re: Re: Hay Tim PD

    Originally posted by hostNOX
    I would like to know the same.
    Ahhhh, there's a few very successful hosts around these parts who are lousy spellers.
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  37. #37
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  38. #38
    Originally posted by hostNOX
    I'm sure what happend is very complicated, but who am i to know?? . My thinking is that Tom set out for Tim to sale this design, tim took in the money via paypal and sent it to Tom. Now as we all know you cant get an refund instantly, if he already clicks accept money etc etc. So now Tom probably feels that he shouldn't have to pay back in full, because he never got ful AKA paypal taxes, yes we all know those. So now tom refuses to pay tim back, which tim refuses to pay phantasy back becayse tom wont pay time back. Who should the blame be in this situation ??¿¿ I'll let you guys conclude this as what you feel, and with your opinion, but this is just an educated guess that i took.
    Yeah that's about right and of course I wount get my full amount back cause of pay pal fee's etc . Honestly though , I paid June 3rd and you can't tell me it takes that long for pay pal and to transfer funds .

    Facts are , I was promised a refund by this past tuesday June 11th and that hasn't happened. All I have heard is a million excuses why I haven't gotten my refund and I am honestly tired hearing excuses why I can't get my money back.

    Do you goto a store and buy something and then return it for a refund to have the store tell you , I am sorry we don't have you money and you will have to wait til such date to get your money back ? NO

    The person who I made the deal with and even paid is TIM of Paradise Designs , person I made all arrangements with yet again is TIM of Paradise Designs.

    Tim is under the impression that he has no responsabilty to pay me back because at the time TOM of Webdefintey was gonna refund me and I assume deal with Tim. Now that Tom has failed to give me a refund after he promised Tuesday June 11th to me all Tim can say is I will contact him.

    When the proper thing to do would be is Tim to refund me and work out his end with Tom.

    I have sent a complaint to pay pal but that was 2 days ago and the status on that is waiting for sellers response.

    Do I have to send the police knocking at someone's door before they take me seriously and to stop these childish games ?
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  39. #39
    All, i can say is i feel for ya man. I to understand your position/troubles.
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  40. #40
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    Tim's reluctance to do anything in this case generally paints him into a corner and says "Hey, you can not trust me! I am not an ethical business person." He acted as a broker and in that capacity has a responsibility to you to resolve these issues. He cannot just take the money and step asside.

    Personally, I would say forget Tom for now, Tim owes you the money. If Tim has to get reimbursed then he needs to deal with Tom himself.

    Maybe Tim is generally a good person to deal with, but I'm certainly skeptical. It's a shame too, some of his CPanel deals seem pretty good and I was considering CPanel for resellers since HSphere is still lacking a bit in that area. I think now I'll just wait it out.
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