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  1. #1
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    Dec 2003
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    Video website (ala-youtube)

    How is this done? I know it requires a large bandwidth. Anyone here has a host that offers the server and bandwidth for this? Do I go for those "unlimited bandwidth" hosts?

    (i know there's no such thing as "unlimited" bandwidth, they just give you a huge bandwidth...but do I go for them?)

    thanks.

  2. #2
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    Go for a dedicated server. That way, you have more control over your websites's enviroment, and you'll be able to handle the installation of software that your website might depend on.

  3. #3
    There isn't such thing as unlimited bandwidth but rather unmetered bandwidth, you will be limited by how big the bandwidth pipe is.

    Go with a Dedicated Server

    Some offers 1mbps, 5mbps, 10mbps, 20mbps, 50mbps or 100mbps pipes. Make sure also that your system can handle the load. It probably not going to be cheap but there are those around.
    http://www.batchimage.com - Offering Batch Image Processing and TIFF/PDF Software Solutions

  4. #4
    Might I suggest you not make a YouTube like site? They are losing money hand over fist. With the amount of bandwitdh they consume, you'd think they'd have a low enough cost per Mbit that they could at least break even. I just don't see too much opportunity for the little guy.

  5. #5
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    The only reason YouTube is still alive is that they are entirely financing their site through venture capital provided by yahoo and google I think.

    Before you venture into a project like this, you should have a solid plan on WHY do you actually want to do this. Do you have a business plan behind it? No offense, but does not look like it if you are considering renting dedicated servers with "unlimited" bandwidth. Or are you just looking for the fame or do you just want too seem "leet" (again, no offense) to your friends?

    If you are trying to set up a business, you will want high quality servers that can deliver at their maximum bandwidth and are not shut down because your host did not actually plan for you using up your 1TB traffic limit.

    If you are serious about this, you can start with renting your own dedicated 100 Mbit line, which will cost about 3000 to 5000 bucks a month depending on quality and location, but that is all yours to use. Most hosting companies will give you 2 or 3 servers (machines) for free if you rent that line with them.

  6. #6
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    Dec 2003
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    so if i were to go with unmetered bandwidth (100MBit)....will the bandwidth be able to handle a thousand or more simultaneous users?

    anyone know the best setup for this (what server(s), ease of adding diskspace if needed, etc.).

  7. #7
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    It is a common misconception to think "unmetered" means you can really get anywhere near the theoretical maximum of about 32 TB data transfer a month.

    "Unmetered" means that your bandwidth is uncapped, but it does not say you will actually have 100 Mbit available. Instead, your "unmetered" server will share the 100 Mbit line with 20 (at least) other servers that are "unmetered" as well... and all those servers will fight over the bandwidth. This will result in a transfer rate of 2 or 3 Mbit at best for your server.

    3 Mbit = 0.378 MB/sec (in theory)

    Considering that there are already 3,4,5 and even 10 Mbit connections available by now, you will not get anywhere with this.

    You might be able to circumvent it by using a load balancer or have a good programmer build a script that will try to evenly distribute the most common files among several servers so you do not actually need more than 3 Mbit per server.

    Like I said, if you are serious about this, there is no way around a dedicated 100 Mbit line, or at least 10 Mbit, if you want to start slow. All unmetered offers are bogus. You get what you pay for.

  8. #8
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    could i get it dedicatd (all 100Mbit line is mine)?

  9. #9
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    Naturally. Please refer to my earlier posts.

  10. #10
    Thought I'd chip in with an observation about this subject.

    I run a site that creates original video content and pay the bills with advertising etc. To my horror I saw that Yahoo are now serving up the video files (deep linking) and bypass me, just giving a credit link. This kind of thing will cause major issues as people creating original content will be stifled as there will be zero budgets while the search engines suck off the content to earn money off it.

    It's the wild West out there but I can see a big problem looming with content creation and earning anything for it. I bet that lawsuits will be flying around soon (not from me, I can't afford it!) and serving other people's content (and nicking their bandwidth!) will be a nightmare. At least Google is letting people upload and possibly get a revenue from it but creating a yourtube type of site will be difficult to make work.

    Sorry, was that a rant?



    Mike
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    Last edited by writespeak; 09-06-2006 at 08:22 PM.

  11. #11
    no i found it interesting

  12. #12
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    never ever go w/ those unlimited bandiwdth as they say there is no free lunch , there is no unlimited bandwidth , ur account will get suspneded the next day and they will tell u cpu usage was over 10% and thus its a valid reason to suspend your account , if you want to create something like youtube then get a managed dedicated server and start off w/ 1000gb bandwidth , but like u said earlier if u wanna get 100 mbit port to yourself it will be about 2500-3000 dollar server per month

  13. #13
    If you're streaming, I agree with what most have said here. Unmetered networks are known to be of lower quality. One thing to consider is that you could go with multiple dedicated servers with 100Mbps connections, but limited bandwidth volume to distribute the bandwidth and processor load. Lots of times these types of ventures are kind of 'feel as you go'. You would start out with a few servers, one for the site and the others for content. Add more content servers as you need. Just make sure that the bandwidth is distributed as evenly as possible between your content servers. Add more content servers as you need. Keep in mind, I have never done this myself, but I've seen it done before. Considering how expensive bandwidth can be, it's proven to be a very cost effective, not to mention scalable, as far as the hardware goes. I am not sure how managing the servers would work though. Anybody?

  14. #14
    I think I saw similar post in dedicated section. Just in case - there are companies which offer private labeled "YouTubes" - not sure if you'll find them on WHT - it goes beyond relatively simple hosting configurations. Conversion services, streaming services, account management services - all suppose to be included in the solutution (and may be some more - like clustering, load balancing, on demand storage, etc.)
    Professional Streaming services - http://www.tulix.com - info at tulix.com
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    The best quality network - AS7219

  15. #15
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    I was calculating the costs of several "unmetered" servers versus a dedicated 100 Mbit line a couple months back. I can not remember the exact features, but it is not worth it in the long run.

    You will relatively soon come to a point where you have to spend so much time with managing all your different server accounts and pay so much money for techs to keep those servers online (secuirty updates, maintenance, etc.).

    Considering the bandwidth of those unmetered servers, it is just not worth the hassle. Or at least that is what I decided for myself.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by nomadph
    I know it requires a large bandwidth.
    Says who? BitTorrent is your friend, but I risk being flamed for sacrilege around here...

    What is this fixation with uploading all multimedia to some central location and having everyone download it from there? We have net neutrality, for the time being at least, so take advantage of it.

    Or, assume that such a project requires lots of bandwidth and a huge hardware investment:

    http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showthread.php?t=541881
    Last edited by BigBison; 09-07-2006 at 06:46 AM.
    Eric J. Bowman, principal
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  17. #17
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    To all those that say YouTube isn't even braken even.

    Currently that is probably correct. They use a gigantic pile of bandwith and just have some small ads on theire site. But youtube nowadays grew into the top 10 best visited websites in the world and just imagine how many times theire videos get played each day.

    When YouTube starts to make advertising deals, there will be millions of companies waiting in line to add theire ad in front of a movie. Imagine how mutch a worldwide television advertisement costs. This will be millions of dollars. But if you place an ad with youtube you'll reach the same ammount of people. And the difference is that it will (most likely) be less expensive, there is a direct link possible and most important, the viewer won't zap away or go to the toilet or anything like that, because the video they want to see will appear in just seconds. They can havind branding and webvertising in one.

    They have clean videos now, to attrack visitors, build theire database and let webloggers and other sites share theire videos. But there will be a time YouTube will throw in the ads to pay theire investements back.

    YouTube can and will be a multibillion company.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigBison
    Says who? BitTorrent is your friend, but I risk being flamed for sacrilege around here...
    hmm...how would bit torrent/p2p be integrated in such a system? let's say user uploaded a video...so those who views my site must now download a client application to view user uploaded videos? that'd turn a lot of people off...as opposed to youtube where you only need a browser...


  19. #19
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    BitTorrent is built in to Opera, downloading a torrent is no different than downloading any other media, it's just a transfer format but the files are still QuickTime, AVI or whatever you want. The point is, nobody "uploads" files to a server, and the cost of running a tracker is minute compared to hosting streaming media.

    Yes, YouTube "only needs a browser" but how many people prefer that arrangement, where only streams may be downloaded and only in a web browser, compared to downloading a file which may saved for later for playing in a standalone player? Flash may be ubiquitous in browsers, but YouTube limits their videos to only being played in a browser, as a stream.

    Have you done market research to see if people really prefer being forced to use their browser to watch streams? Are you sure that YouTube's solution is so superior to other delivery methods that it's worth multiplying your hosting bills by 100, to provide the same service -- videos downloaded from the Internet? I hadn't realized that YouTube (or Google Video) was making QuickTime or AVI formats obsolete in the marketplace...

    What will turn users off more, needing a special client to download videos, or having your site go down regularly due to "unlimited" hosting, or get suspended for nonpayment of bandwidth overage fees? Find a solution which works for your business plan, instead of emulating the "success" of a company losing $500K/month due to their lack of a business plan.

  20. #20
    Yeah, sure if you want to host the videos, you will need some powerful servers and loads of bandwidth, but you can go the cheap wrote, outsourcing it to the likes of videoegg that do exactly that (i think aol's video is also videoegg powered) or ... well go the p2p/torrent way, maybe like Veoh did, anyway what everyone is saying is correct, just like the file hosting, or image hosting... you should think real hard before spending your time and money on something like this... ohh and if you do, do some research before spending your time and money, it's much more than a "were to host" or "how big a dedicated machine i really need" since those things can only be truly assessed when you are working with it, and not before, sometimes a cheap dedicated can send a 1000 videos at the same time, other times it would get so slow no one can see it, too many variables.

  21. #21
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    Dec 2003
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    opera may have bittorent on it...but does IE/Firefox/other browsers have it?

    if i wish to "share" a video the p2p way, does my pc have to be up all the time at the start, while nobody has "viewed"/"downloaded" my video yet?

    thanks.

  22. #22
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    Well, since the other browser vendors have copied every other feature Opera has come up with (tabbed browsing, etc.) I am sure that BT downloads aren't very far away from mainstream at this point. I won't even accuse them of copying Opera, BT support is a no-brainer for inclusion in any download manager.

    Quote Originally Posted by nomadph
    if i wish to "share" a video the p2p way, does my pc have to be up all the time at the start, while nobody has "viewed"/"downloaded" my video yet?
    Nope. You can leave your BitTorrent client off, your files will only be shared when you're actively "seeding" them. A popular torrent will take on a life of its own. You can even stop sharing it, and the "swarm" will continue to download it from each other. However, if you upload a .torrent file, it is a good idea to actually make that file available to get the swarm started.

    If a client must make contact with your PC to get a piece of the seed file, it will only attempt to do so once your BT client has informed the tracker it's online. Then, clients seeking the download will be directed to your PC by the tracker. I can't be much more help than this, we're going to be setting up our first tracker this month.

  23. #23
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    What BitTorrent has going for it, is it's an open-source IETF standard. Compare to this nightmare of proprietary software required to download videos from amazon.com:

    http://reviews.cnet.com/4531-10921_7-6636289.html

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