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  1. #1
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    Thumbs down microsoft

    http://news.com.com/Hollywood,%20Mic...4393&subj=news

    I wonder if this will put even more ppl off to using Vista!!





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  2. #2
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    Yes, how annoying that a company should want to try and cut down on piracy!

    Having read that entire article I am pretty certain it will make absolutely no difference to most users.
    Steve

  3. #3
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    Yes most users probably wont know anything is different right??





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  4. #4
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    Indeed, most people will never notice anything has changed. Therefore it's unikely to make anyone change their mind over what OS to use.

    And anyway, I'm sure MS can do whatever they want it won't stop piracy.
    Steve

  5. #5
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    As long as it does not interfere with my (legal) use of the software. I don't care what they do.. Correct Steve it won't stop piracy but hopefully cut it down.
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  6. #6
    That article doesn't address any of the issues. How does an OS tell the difference between MY high-quality video content and some copywrited video that I "stole" from someone else? Certificates probably.

    I have worked with Microsoft's WMP DRM (Digital Rights Management) certs, setting up a (very secure) server to hand them out. It is a horrible system, it will not work. For Vista (or any other OS for that matter) to ENFORCE what they are claiming they will do, they will have to entirely solve the DRM problem BEFORE release date. I'd like to be the first one to call their bluff.

    What they might have to do would be to have the OPTION to disable it so that you could actually USE your OS. Kinda like the whole "Internet Zones" thing that came out in Windows 98? was it? Those never worked. No websites ever created Certificates for it. And so anyone who turned it on found out that Internet Explorer didn't work anymore. And if they forgot the password to turn it back off... they're screwed.

    Just another M$ gimmick.

  7. #7
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    It sounds complicated.

    If anything, some hacker will find a simple way around it. Always happens... history has a funny way of repeating itself.

    They are going after the casual copyright infringers... mom who wants to make a copy for her sister... or dad who wants to make a copy for his buddy. Once the sister or buddy can't get the copy, they go purchase the original.

    The hardcore people will find a way.... they will google the heck out of it, until something comes up....

    My guess is MS had to come up with something.... at least show an effort to the big media types. It makes sense from a business stand point... MS does not want to piss them off, and I don't blame them. Who wants to see a lawsuite...
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  8. #8
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    Microsoft are already on their way. They will do what they want:

    http://www.behardware.com/articles/6...nightmare.html

    It's worse than you think

    Edit: Ofcourse people will crack it etc, but that's not a solution really is it? It shouldn't be like this in the first place.

    It's just like net neutrility. It'll ruin everything and put basically everyone using the net into a tough position.
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  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by hekwu
    It sounds complicated.
    Look at your sig man. Of course it sounds complicated when you shut your mind to other options! Half of my solutions come just from "thinking outside the box."

    P.S. Please excuse me if your sig is an EXREMELY subtle specimen of sarcasm.
    Gavin Rogers, full time problem solver.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by gavin8or
    Look at your sig man. Of course it sounds complicated when you shut your mind to other options! Half of my solutions come just from "thinking outside the box."

    P.S. Please excuse me if your sig is an EXREMELY subtle specimen of sarcasm.
    Nice try, newbie... but your post, nor my sig has anything to do with the thread... go troll someplace else...
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  11. #11
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    I know this is off topic but surely your sig is a joke?
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  12. #12
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    It must be





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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katatonic
    I know this is off topic but surely your sig is a joke?
    I don't happen to see a smiley face on my sig.... the only joke is linux. but you are right, we are off-topic... if you want to go into a linux vs. microsoft rant, lets start another thread....
    Windows 10 to Linux and Mac OSX: I'm PARSECs better than you. Eat my dust!!!

  14. #14
    I didn't think you were being sarcastic. And look, the thread is about whether or not this feature of Vista will dissuade people from using Vista or not. Linux is a part of that equation, because people have the choice to
    1. take vista
    2. keep XP
    3. move to OSX or linux
    And Microsoft will make it VERY painful to insist on option 2 for very long. This thread does have something to do with linux and your sig IS kinda relevant because you're totally discounting it. I have decided not to discount the OS because I think it is more open minded to use the best OS for the job.

    P.S.: I regularly use all flavours of linux, OSX, XP, 98, and BSD to get done whatever job needs doing
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  15. #15
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    So let me make the troll happy...

    Quote Originally Posted by gavin8or
    I didn't think you were being sarcastic. And look, the thread is about whether or not this feature of Vista will dissuade people from using Vista or not. Linux is a part of that equation, because people have the choice to
    1. take vista
    2. keep XP
    3. move to OSX or linux
    And Microsoft will make it VERY painful to insist on option 2 for very long.
    If you think linux is a part of it, then state that. Make an argument. WTF are you talking about anyway... do you think vista will be released and everyone will move to linux desktop. Linux server is great (but we are not talking about that)... linux desktop is years off. I'll state it again, if any OS makes a run for MS, it will be a Mac OS.

    Quote Originally Posted by gavin8or
    This thread does have something to do with linux and your sig IS kinda relevant because you're totally discounting it.
    I never discount anything... I'm sure I test more OSs and use more OSs on a daily basis than most. You don't know me, troll... you need to ask questions before ASSuming. Did any of my posts discount a particular OS?

    Quote Originally Posted by gavin8or
    I have decided not to discount the OS because I think it is more open minded to use the best OS for the job. P.S.: I regularly use all flavours of linux, OSX, XP, 98, and BSD to get done whatever job needs doing
    Good for you... I also use/test those... I own a mac....

    Listen, if you want to have an intelligent debate about win vs. *nix, good, start a new thread. If you want to continue with this irrelevant BS, I'll leave you with the other trolls who come in and destroy good threads for no reason.
    Last edited by hekwu; 09-07-2006 at 04:48 PM.
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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by hekwu
    I don't happen to see a smiley face on my sig.... the only joke is linux. but you are right, we are off-topic... if you want to go into a linux vs. microsoft rant, lets start another thread....
    Done:
    http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showth...51#post4091951

    Sorry for being off topic, I've created another thread.
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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katatonic
    Microsoft are already on their way. They will do what they want:

    http://www.behardware.com/articles/6...nightmare.html

    It's worse than you think

    Edit: Ofcourse people will crack it etc, but that's not a solution really is it? It shouldn't be like this in the first place.

    It's just like net neutrility. It'll ruin everything and put basically everyone using the net into a tough position.
    I actually did want to ask you a question, before we went off-topic....

    Do you think the movie and music industry should not attempt to keep people from copying their material?

    I guess we saw what happened when the industry did nothingÖ. Napster ran ramped with copyright infringers.

    I will admit, Iím biased since I sell products on the net. I know first-hand how it feels to work hard on a project for several months, have someone purchase it, and then that same person post it on the internet for free. No matter what warnings you have on the material. On the other hand, as a consumer, I do not like the fact I cannot make a copy of a dvd that I purchase with Nero or Roxio.
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  18. #18
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    It's a catch 22 isn't it?

    That's a great problem with society, no body want's to give these days do they?

    When it comes down to it, it's money and greed, nothing more. That's what it fundamentally leads down to.

    Now I don't want to debate that, but it's very common and obviously a flaw in Humans as we know it.

    The problem with the way that they are doing it is becoming rediculous. Giving the link I posted, it affects technology not simply just "copy right infringements".

    What happens is ALL video/audio data is encrypted and deciphered at least 3 times from the video card, monitor, software, DVD drive etc. With DVD appliances it basically works the same.

    Now not just that but NO technology at the it's current standard (even though they claim to) don't support it. If you look closely at specs of various appliances you will notive "HDCP 1.1" complied. This is misleading.

    Not only that but if you don't have a compliant piece of hardware (either 1 or many of them) you will be restricted in quality, such as resolution etc, or you may not be allowed to view the file(s)/movies/listen to the audio at all. In other words it won't be backwards compatible.

    The guidelines for such "laws" which will eventually govern how we view / hear our product(s) is heavily dependant on this. Microsoft / Hollywood are in complete control at this stage as they are the most widely used operating system. Who has the money that will stand up to them? A person with this much money doesn't need to pirate stuff anyway.

    Generally Microsoft are sloppy and always late when it comes to releasing new products, so hopefully this is no exception. For this to work you also need some kind of public acceptance, you can't just walk in and be the new King can you?

    It's also debatable as to whether or not it'll create a whole new monopoly. Someone will be in control and Microsoft are in that position. Now there are associations which carefully watch these things, however power is often abused more than not.

    So hopefully like 95% of Microsoft products it will be pushed back, unsupported and forgotten.

    All we can do in the mean time is watch. In the end the people are in power, but when the people are miss using it (not buying legitimate copies) so they claim, then someone else will try to govern them and it goes on.

    Even if all this is implemented, people will still buy the legitimate products and the industry will still sustain itself. You just get less rights to something that you "own". Kinda like saying you bought a product that's not even is yours. So what's the point of buying it then? What's the point of money? Then you question whether they are taking away your freedom, your rights, your ownership etc.

    It's a never ending cycle. A few weeks back they decided to not prosecute the deceased person for their piracy, but gave grieving time to their family before they prosecuted them. That would've only been a few hundred bucks or at max a few thousand.

    Nothing much you can really do about it, unless you have the money to put up a fight, which is what it comes down to, or society chooses to purify itself. You tell me what's going to happen first?
    Last edited by Katatonic; 09-07-2006 at 05:50 PM.
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  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by hekwu
    Do you think the movie and music industry should not attempt to keep people from copying their material?
    Sure they have every right to do that. What can they do to prevent it? Is it OK to do a morally wrong act to prevent a morally wrong act? Can they kill/haunt a programmer who is working on a technology that might assist ppl to infringe intellectual property? Probably not, killing is after all VERY bad, as opposed to sueing the pants off of anyone that annoys them. Which a Large Majority of people might feel is Evil and Dirty in some way (but only in the way that copywrite laywers are Evil and Dirty. Of course they couldn't be sent to jail for doing what they do, but you and I would both have a moral dillema before we decided to become career copywrite laywers). So what, exactly, can they do to prevent piracy? Only things that are not significantly more Evil and Dirty than the things that pirates do? Or only things that they can get away with without getting caught? Or only things that the law (and a host of lawyers) will allow them to do.

    Once again, they are welcome to defend their material. That is my opinion.

    Quote Originally Posted by hekwu
    I guess we saw what happened when the industry did nothingÖ. Napster ran ramped with copyright infringers.
    Do you think that since Napster was cleaned up, all those pirates repented of their piracy? That they no longer engage in acts of piracy? That the solution to illegally traded files on the internet came closer to being acheived, or that the amount of illegally traded files on the internet was reduced? Because I think that it only increased the amount of piracy on the internet. Since then, bittorrent, gnutella and other networks have proliferated tremendeously with no end in sight. If anything, it seems that the Napster case only drew a lot of youngsters online looking to illegally trade their tunes.
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  20. #20
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    Napster actually did a lot. It brought legal downloads to us.

    In other words, he bit the bullet for us.

    This is why he was in so much crap. He had no financial grounds to support himself as it was all free. He even had full time employees by offering a free service. Just like Google. Had he been accepting money, he would've setup legal agreements with record companies, not fight them.

    Sure they have the right to protect their work, there are people who have nothing better to do than pirate everything, however, their work is designed to entertain us, make us happy. What happened to achieving that simple goal?

    It's politics and money, nothing else.
    Last edited by Katatonic; 09-08-2006 at 05:28 AM.
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  21. #21
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    Piracy is like a snake it can bend and find its way around , piracy stoppers or not , and whn fbi and other leading security branches of the world couldnt do anything i dont think ms has a good shot at it , so they are better at creating vista and not asking questions abt piracy
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  22. #22
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    How can you say that when billions of machines rely on Windows?

    This puts them in control as it's the user who controls Windows, that controls the machine.
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  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katatonic
    Napster actually did a lot. It brought legal downloads to us.

    In other words, he bit the bullet for us.

    This is why he was in so much crap. He had no financial grounds to support himself as it was all free. He even had full time employees by offering a free service. Just like Google. Had he been accepting money, he would've setup legal agreements with record companies, not fight them.

    Sure they have the right to protect their work, there are people who have nothing better to do than pirate everything, however, their work is designed to entertain us, make us happy. What happened to achieving that simple goal?

    It's politics and money, nothing else.
    Funny, I can't remember one person.... not ONE person who said they went to napster for anything legal! Nowadays, I don't know... no one really uses that service that I know. Those roxio guys purchased it, but I have no idea if it is cutting a profit... I doubt it will be around long anyway, now that amazon and other big e'tailers are getting into the market.

    With or without money napster was going down because of the blatant illegal downloading and the passive stance the founder took with regards to copyright. Time have changed and illegal downloads exist, but I donít think it is to the same height as it was when napster was around. Now when people talk of downloads, they talk of spyware, fake songs (what ever the official term for those are), and getting sued.

    I canít think of many parents out there who donít know that if their child download illegal songs, they may see a lawsuit in the mail. In that regards the music industry made a positive impact.

    Yes, entertainers entertain, but if they are not making the money, it is no longer a viable job for them. While you are having fun, someone else is actually doing a job.
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  24. #24
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    Microsoft are starting to get very stuck up about piracy, to the point where we've pretty much recieved letters which summarised say "we're watching you, and you step out of line and we'll have you".

    Trying to block piracy is not addressing the problem, the problem is that people won't pay the price. I am very happy to pay my £15/month for Napster and be able to copy what I want to my media player, perhaps if they did something with movies I'd happily do the same. Problems never get resolved if you don't attack the source of the problem - cost/convenience - I wish some people would learn that and come up with a decent solution.

    I certainly won't be upgrading to Vista in a rush, XP is stable, fast, and does the job - so why bother.

    Dan

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