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  1. #1
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    I need a webhost that allows irc access

    Hi, i need to host a website that has an irc channel list script the uses fsock's to connect to my ircd server to pull irc channel data and places it in a table

    im tired of switching webhosts because they change there tos to no irc allowed and block irc access

    any suggestions would be great!

  2. #2
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    Have you checked the webhosting offer forum here? Look for something like 'ddos-protected hosting' - I'm sure you'll find something suitable.

  3. #3
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    hardly any dc or host will allow access to "public irc servers" meaning efnet, freenode, quaknet or whatever. But then again most wont allow any irc access at all because they are too scared or dont know how to deal with it.
    You need to get a smaller host willing to install what you need. I really dont see how any web app connected to irc can be a problem for anyone. I think the main problem with some hosts is php bots and whatever connected to irc. Irc gateways shouldnt be a problem for much.

  4. #4
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    hardly any dc or host will allow access to "public irc servers" meaning efnet, freenode, quaknet or whatever. But then agaon most wont allow any irc access at all because they are too scared or dont know how to deal with it.
    Incorrect. Many allow it and many know how to deal with it. The OP is asking for a host that allows a script to connect to IRC for about a second - this shouldn't even require an IRC host, as there's virtually no risk. There's probably more of a risk hosting your Evolution-Security site than there is in what the OP asked for.

  5. #5
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    Didnt you read the second half? I have been in a similar situation, and yes most hosts will flip and suspend on anything remotely related to irc.
    The majority of hosts now forbid any irc connection whatsoever. Why do you think the guy is having a problem finding a host?
    Good luck on the irc app, Id ask first before Id commit to a plan. It sure doesnt hurt. I know when I just had a site on shared hosting plans I went through a lot of hosts, one even suspended me for setting my dns to go to our irc server.
    There are a lot of irc friendly hosts out there but I have found the majority is not.

  6. #6
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    Didnt you read the second half? I have been in a similar situation, and yes most hosts will flip and suspend on anything remotely related to irc.
    Only ones that have no idea what he's doing would flip. His stats program establishes a connection, probably runs /lusers, /map, and /list, and then disconnects. The only person that might even see the connection is the owner of the server, who is highly unlikely to attack him or anything.

    But unfortunately, you are right in that many hosts will automatically flip and suspend when they see anything related to IRC.

  7. #7
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    IRC servers pose a security risk, they tend to get ddos attacked, and cause little internet wars, unless you get a dedicated server you will probably have a hard time finding a host that will allow irc's
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  8. #8
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    let me clearify that i don't want to host an irc server, i have a shell already i just need to host a website that can access my irc server, I see no risks.

  9. #9
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    ahh... ok ya most shared hosting providers would allow that. Sorry I misunderstood.
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  10. #10
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    np, yeh the host i was just left, went on a 0 irc rampage adding

    IRC Policy
    IRC and related items may not be hosted on our network.

    to the tos and blocking connections out

  11. #11
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    zytex,

    The majority of hosts should allow it as it isn't exactly an irc service.
    The problem you may run into though is outgoing filtering.

    You'd be much better off seeing if you can have the irc daemon output some status codes to a file every so often and then have your web server grab the status file every few moments to update it as necessary.

    Just my two cents!
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by nocebo
    Incorrect. Many allow it and many know how to deal with it. The OP is asking for a host that allows a script to connect to IRC for about a second - this shouldn't even require an IRC host, as there's virtually no risk. There's probably more of a risk hosting your Evolution-Security site than there is in what the OP asked for.
    I'd have to disagree.

    The OP was asking for a 'webhost' that offers IRC access, which is actually very few and far between. Web hosting provides just that.. hosting for the web. IRC is not part of the web and is rarely provided as an option for web hosting plans.

    Running a script that connects to IRC 'for about a second' likely won't increase the odds of finding a host that allows this. That's like saying someone's going to run BitTorrent for about a second, or a proxy server for about a second, or an IRCd for about a second. Grey area is dangerous and generally hosts will either allow or entirely disallow a certain service.

    I don't see the point of the stab at the service that another provider offers just because you don't agree with something that they post about. I understand that you're a shell host and I actually come from the same background myself. That doesn't, however, mean that everyone is a shell host and if you take a look around at some of the companies advertised in ads, signatures, offer sections, etc... here you'll find that 99% of the web hosts do not allow any type of IRC activity.

    If you can find a web hosting company that allows for IRC access, I'd be interested to see. I'm not doubting that you can find one as I'm sure there's some out there. I'd just like to know who they are for curiosity's sake.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by nocebo
    Only ones that have no idea what he's doing would flip. His stats program establishes a connection, probably runs /lusers, /map, and /list, and then disconnects. The only person that might even see the connection is the owner of the server, who is highly unlikely to attack him or anything.

    But unfortunately, you are right in that many hosts will automatically flip and suspend when they see anything related to IRC.
    I see that you don't quite understand the separate market idea. Just because a provider chooses to not allow a type of service does not mean that they're scared of it or don't know how to handle it. Did you think that maybe they choose not to handle it?

    IRC is a headache, especially for those that don't aim to provide that type of service. I noticed that you specifically forbid video streaming from your service. You must have no idea what you're doing since you don't allow it. What if I just want to stream a video for about a second? Also, why do you only allow one IRC connection per process? Any shell host that knows what they're doing should be able to offer more than that. C'mon! I just want to connect twice for about a second.

    See what I mean? Going by your logic any choice of service limitations is a lack of knowledge for the service that's provided. You're not a video streaming host, so why should I expect to be able to run that from a shell account with you? The same goes for a web host. Why should someone with a web hosting plan be able to run IRC-related processes? Isn't that what shell hosts are for?

    There's different markets and demographics that companies shoot for. Some hosts choose to concentrate on only one type of service over another. I noticed that you don't appear to offer any web hosting plans. Why not? You could easily set up a web server on one of your shell servers. It's your choice of a market. You choose to cater more toward IRC services and I'm sure it'd make things more difficult if you decided to start offering another type of service. That's great, you know! It makes you an expert in one type of market and you'll likely have an edge over someone that offers both web hosting and shell hosting as they've got to focus on two different things. It's all in what somebody choose to sell... not necessarily a lack of understanding of the other services that they could offer.

  14. #14
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    Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't the Perl module Net::IRC let you connect 'for just a second' without needing to have a shell host? This isn't a ridiculous request for a webhost, it's just something that would need to be customly done and spoken about with the host in the first place.

    zytex: I'm not much help in finding a host allowing IRC access but a quick search of the forum will give you a bunch as this question is asked almost bi-daily.
    Michael Chase
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  15. #15
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    The OP was asking for a 'webhost' that offers IRC access, which is actually very few and far between. Web hosting provides just that.. hosting for the web. IRC is not part of the web and is rarely provided as an option for web hosting plans.
    There are a ton of people who have dedis with places like Staminus and GigEServers that do webhosting. They all allow IRC. What do you mean IRC is not a part of the web? lol

    I see that you don't quite understand the separate market idea. Just because a provider chooses to not allow a type of service does not mean that they're scared of it or don't know how to handle it. Did you think that maybe they choose not to handle it?
    Sure, and that's unfortunate.

    IRC is a headache, especially for those that don't aim to provide that type of service.
    What he wants to do is certainly not a headache and is not a risk by any means.

    Running a script that connects to IRC 'for about a second' likely won't increase the odds of finding a host that allows this. That's like saying someone's going to run BitTorrent for about a second, or a proxy server for about a second, or an IRCd for about a second. Grey area is dangerous and generally hosts will either allow or entirely disallow a certain service.
    You're comparing apples and oranges. The OP is talking about something that's virtually risk-free and you just turned that into something apparently hazardous.

    You must have no idea what you're doing since you don't allow it. What if I just want to stream a video for about a second?
    You seem to be making a big deal out of the fact that I said "just for a second." What he wants to do hardly requires an IRC host. For the record, I don't allow streaming servers on shells because of the resource usage. I offer other plans for such services.

    You're not a video streaming host, so why should I expect to be able to run that from a shell account with you?
    It's beside the point, but I actually do provide streaming services. You shouldn't expect to run that on a shell account - they cost about $2.00 a month.

    The same goes for a web host. Why should someone with a web hosting plan be able to run IRC-related processes? Isn't that what shell hosts are for?
    Because, again, what he wants to run isn't really an IRC process.

    I noticed that you don't appear to offer any web hosting plans.
    Thanks for professing to know something about my business - I actually do provide webhosting plans. I choose not to list them on my site because my site has nothing to do with webhosting.

    It's all in what somebody choose to sell... not necessarily a lack of understanding of the other services that they could offer.
    SecureServerTech said that they're afraid of it and whatnot, which I disagreed with. You're arguing my point.

    It should also be noted that I haven't seriously updated my website's content in quite a long time. The one-connection-per-process has actually not been in effect for months, and was in fact, only in effect for a week or so.
    Last edited by avythe; 08-31-2006 at 12:49 AM.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by nocebo
    There are a ton of people who have dedis with places like Staminus and GigEServers that do webhosting. They all allow IRC. What do you mean IRC is not a part of the web? lol
    http://www.webopedia.com/TERM/W/World_Wide_Web.html

    Quote Originally Posted by nocebo
    You seem to be making a big deal out of the fact that I said "just for a second." What he wants to do hardly requires an IRC host. For the record, I don't allow streaming servers on shells because of the resource usage. I offer other plans for such services.
    Many web hosts don't offer IRC access for the same reason you don't allow streaming servers on your shell accounts. IRC greatly contributes to the resource usage of a server when it's already being used for its main task of hosting websites. Believe me, I've seen in happen.

    Quote Originally Posted by nocebo
    It's beside the point, but I actually do provide streaming services. You shouldn't expect to run that on a shell account - they cost about $2.00 a month.
    If you shouldn't expect to run streaming services on a shell account why should you expect to run IRC services on a web hosting plan?

    Quote Originally Posted by nocebo
    Because, again, what he wants to run isn't really an IRC process.
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but is something that's connecting to IRC not an IRC process?

    Quote Originally Posted by nocebo
    Thanks for professing to know something about my business - I actually do provide webhosting plans. I choose not to list them on my site because my site has nothing to do with webhosting.
    I guess you missed the part where I said "you don't appear to offer". I made no profession to know anything about your business.

    Again, you're proving my point. If you argue that shell hosting has nothing to do with web hosting, then why is my argument of the opposite wrong? Why expect a web host to offer IRC-related services if they've got nothing to do with one another?

  17. #17
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    Correct me if I'm wrong, but is something that's connecting to IRC not an IRC process?
    There is a very small IRC part of it...it'd be the same kind of thing as if you wanted to write a script to connect to the shoutcast DNAS to grab the current listener count - where's the risk?

    If you shouldn't expect to run streaming services on a shell account why should you expect to run IRC services on a web hosting plan?
    see above

    http://www.jpilot.com/products/jirc/index.html
    http://cgiirc.sourceforge.net/

  18. #18
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    I'm actually wondering where this whole argument is going? Flat out and quite simple, if a host chooses not to allow something that was the choice they had made (all speculation aside hosts do choose which markets to target).

    In any case both streaming and irc to use resources (everything uses resources). Also when you talk scripts (not to argue points or sides in this matter) some may tend to use more resources than others, plus you run the risk of a customer loading a script that while not intended to be malicious might have a major memory leak (where it doesn't free locked resources when it's done executing, etc). Again not being argumentative but from what I just read on this thread all points being made are valid to an extent. IRC while part of the internet might be technically not deemed part of the www (as it's hardly a website).

    In any stretch of the imagination there definitely should be more than enough hosts out there that have no problem with what the OP is asking for. It's not something that should be that resource intensive as it is merely a script opening a socket to an irc server (not a full fledged client on irc/bg of it's own from the sounds of it).

    zytex, best of luck in finding a provider that will suit you and allow use of what you're looking for. I'd suggest however definitely making sure you inquire with whomever before jumping on board and ask them if they intend to continue allowing it for your account even if they change their global account policy about IRC.
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  19. #19
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    Much ado about nothing.

    To the OP - to avoid people who go "EEEK IRC" and pull up their skirts while sprinting away, I'd consider approaching irc shell providers for webhosting. Some offer it as well, and would be more likely to permit an 'irc-accessing script' to run from your site. I'd suggest contacting sales/support of said shell hosts and asking.

    Examples;

    flameshells.com
    sh3lls.net
    24shells.net
    jeah.net

    yadda yadda yadda. Do a google search.

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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwr
    To the OP - to avoid people who go "EEEK IRC" and pull up their skirts while sprinting away, I'd consider approaching irc shell providers for webhosting. Some offer it as well, and would be more likely to permit an 'irc-accessing script' to run from your site. I'd suggest contacting sales/support of said shell hosts and asking.
    Indeed! I've had great luck with Jeah as a shell provider and would imagine their web hosting would be pretty nice as well.

    I'd have to say that my favorite shell provider at this point is VoltHost. They've provided me with awesome service for about two years already and can only say good things about it. Their network and hardware is right up there with what I've seen from years with Lomag. I know they'll set up web hosting for shell customers on a request basis.

    Speaking of Lomag.. they've actually got a web hosting service listed on their website. Nothing but great things to say about them, either.

  21. #21
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    A $9.95/mo webhosting account with he.net will allow what you want.

    There are processes in place that will kill off your process if it runs for too long, takes up too much memory or cpu... but your application as described doesn't sound as if it'd have any major issues.

    You can't open a listen socket... but, you wouldn't be doing that either.

  22. #22
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    You asked for recomendations here's one!

    Oxygenshell.Com I have worked with them in the past and refer my customers to them. Just say James sent you and I'm sure the owner Bob will be able to cut you a big discount! They have been around for a while and are very reputable
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  23. #23
    MichaelS: Correct me if I'm wrong, but is something that's connecting to IRC not an IRC process?

    You are wrong. Something that is connecting to IRC is a client process. Regardless of where it originates, it will always be a client process. Even when it is IRCd to IRCd, incoming connections are client processes.


    MichaelS: Again, you're proving my point. If you argue that shell hosting has nothing to do with web hosting, then why is my argument of the opposite wrong? Why expect a web host to offer IRC-related services if they've got nothing to do with one another?

    Offering access to IRC is not IRC related. It is related to the fact that the webhost allows access to IRC via their webserver. IRC related services entail an IRCd and its requirements.

    You really do not understand anyting about programming and how IRC and webhosting really works. If you did, you would not make such moronic statements.

    What is being asked for in this thread is not IRC services. IRC services would entail shell processes to run and host an IRC server, along with the required bandwidth and hardware. What is being asked for is a webhost that does not block outgoing bi-directional IRC client connections. Nothing more. (Alas, I know of no hosts which willing allow this at the moment.) I my self use a similar script for various purposes. It connect to an IRC server, as a client, stays there for 3-9 seconds gathering data, then disconnects while updating a MySQL DB for the page. This script is run via a cron job every minute. I dont have exact numbers, but it uses about 0.03% CPU, about 64K of memory, and lasts no more than 9 seconds (due to I scripted it that way). You would be surprised at how many hosts dont allow this, even though it poses no risk.

    So before you speak, think, it will save you loads of trouble.

  24. #24
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    brutal...lol
    Like I said, email the host before, tell them what you need, if they dont like it go on to the next. And yes lots will give you the "NO we do not allow any IRC related material, DO you have any NON-IRC needs?"
    I have even been kicked off servers before for an irc chat modules on my nuke site, the pjirc. Some just trip which I think is due mostly to ignorance and fear. And then some just dont wanna have any sites that even mutter the word irc. But hey, its their company they can do what they want, move on and find another IRC friendly host.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vadtec
    You are wrong. Something that is connecting to IRC is a client process. Regardless of where it originates, it will always be a client process. Even when it is IRCd to IRCd, incoming connections are client processes.
    Uhh...

    So it is a process, right? Thanks for confirming my point.

    Honestly... what you said makes no sense.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vadtec
    Offering access to IRC is not IRC related. It is related to the fact that the webhost allows access to IRC via their webserver. IRC related services entail an IRCd and its requirements.
    What do you mean? If it's referring to IRC, then it's related to IRC thus IRC-related. How can offering access to IRC not be IRC related? That's like saying hosting websites is not web hosting related.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vadtec
    You really do not understand anyting about programming and how IRC and webhosting really works. If you did, you would not make such moronic statements.
    Since when are we talking about programming? I'm actually quite familiar with the ways that both IRC and web hosting work.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vadtec
    What is being asked for in this thread is not IRC services. IRC services would entail shell processes to run and host an IRC server, along with the required bandwidth and hardware. What is being asked for is a webhost that does not block outgoing bi-directional IRC client connections. Nothing more. (Alas, I know of no hosts which willing allow this at the moment.) I my self use a similar script for various purposes. It connect to an IRC server, as a client, stays there for 3-9 seconds gathering data, then disconnects while updating a MySQL DB for the page. This script is run via a cron job every minute. I dont have exact numbers, but it uses about 0.03% CPU, about 64K of memory, and lasts no more than 9 seconds (due to I scripted it that way). You would be surprised at how many hosts dont allow this, even though it poses no risk.
    I made no mention of IRC servers, so I'm not quite sure why you're going on about that. I merely stated that most web hosts do not allow IRC access, regardless of whether it's a client or server process.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vadtec
    So before you speak, think, it will save you loads of trouble.
    I believe you should re-read all of my posts. I'm really hoping that you just misread everything and really aren't as daft as you come across in your post.

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