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  1. #1
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    May 2004
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    experiment: domain expires mid-transfer. Results: success!

    I -like many here- have always wondered what happens if a domain expires mid-transfer from one registrar to another. So I decided to perform an experiment with a domain I didn't really care about (in case I lost it in the kerfuffle), and here are the results.

    I had a domain (purchased from someone at NamePros) sitting in a Fabulous account. Fabulous wanted $19.95 for a renewal. Hah! No way, considering I have a $7.95 enom account. So I unlocked the domain, went to enom, and started a transfer.

    The domain was due to expire on June 2nd. I initiated the transfer on May 30th. By June 1st I had answered the approval email, and both registrars were showing the transfer as "in process".

    June 2nd came and went. The transfer status remained "in process" but Fabulous was now showing the expiration as one year later. I have no billing info on file at Fabulous, so I was not charged anything by them.

    Anyone else have similar good/bad experiences like this?

    Nothing changed until early this morning (June 6th) when enom notified me that the transfer was complete and the $7.95 fee processed. The transfer ticket was then automatically closed, and the name now sits very happily in my account with a 2007 expiration date.

    So...apparently, at least where a Fabulous-to-enom transfer is concerned, you can have a domain expire mid-transfer and still have it go through okay with no unanticipated or extraordinary fees involved.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
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    India
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  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
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    South Park, Colorado
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    3,522
    Been there, done that...

    Congrats for chosing eNom!!!
    Respect My Authoritah! - Eric Cartman (a friend of mine).

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
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    I personally would not risk an inter-registrar with less than 7 day remaining. I know, that most times it will probably be successful. But i wouldn't risk it.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    May 2005
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    San Mateo, CA, US
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    You can start a transfer anytime before the domain is put in HOLD status. Even if the domain is about to expire, or has already expired. And once the transfer starts, the current registrar can not modify the domain until the transfer completes. The registrar can however deny the transfer because the domain has expired, but that is up to the internal policies of each registrar.

    An even more extreme example than yours:

    We (Dynadot) do not put a domain on hold immediately after it expires. Sometimes a few hours elapses until we put the domain on hold after it expires. We have had a few cases where customers have managed to slip a transfer in that small window after the expiration and before the hold. It took us a while to figure out what happened. But we decided to let the transfers complete, and modified our code to account for this situation.

    That said you should not really wait until the last minute. If something goes wrong with the transfer, you are forced to renew with the current registrar. Interesting experiment however.

  6. #6
    Join Date
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    Dynadot, interesting bit about the expired window arbitrage.

    And regarding:

    Quote Originally Posted by dynadot
    That said you should not really wait until the last minute. If something goes wrong with the transfer, you are forced to renew with the current registrar. Interesting experiment however.
    Quote Originally Posted by stu2
    I personally would not risk an inter-registrar with less than 7 day remaining. I know, that most times it will probably be successful. But i wouldn't risk it.
    I agree. I normally never risk things like that.

    kids, don't try this at home!

    But this was a domain I didn't care about losing, so it was a perfect test specimen. Not every day we get to do experiments like this (akin to pulling spinning disks out of live servers just to see if the RAID array really works).

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by dynadot
    You can start a transfer anytime before the domain is put in HOLD status. Even if the domain is about to expire, or has already expired. And once the transfer starts, the current registrar can not modify the domain until the transfer completes. The registrar can however deny the transfer because the domain has expired, but that is up to the internal policies of each registrar.

    An even more extreme example than yours:

    We (Dynadot) do not put a domain on hold immediately after it expires. Sometimes a few hours elapses until we put the domain on hold after it expires. We have had a few cases where customers have managed to slip a transfer in that small window after the expiration and before the hold. It took us a while to figure out what happened. But we decided to let the transfers complete, and modified our code to account for this situation.

    That said you should not really wait until the last minute. If something goes wrong with the transfer, you are forced to renew with the current registrar. Interesting experiment however.

    Doesn't ICANN state that even domains that are expired must be allowed to transfer? I know for sure that some registrars allow domains that are expired to transfer - I thought this was due to ICANN policy...

  8. #8
    Join Date
    May 2004
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    Quote Originally Posted by gerolsteiner
    Doesn't ICANN state that even domains that are expired must be allowed to transfer? I know for sure that some registrars allow domains that are expired to transfer - I thought this was due to ICANN policy...
    Not sure; never looked. Even if it does, we all know these things don't always work as expected and that the resolution process can be long and painful.

    So yeah, the best advise is still "don't do it".

  9. #9
    Yes, ICANN finally allows expired domains to be transferred to another registrar.
    But that's if the domain name's still registered.

    Registrars aren't forced to give any grace period, either. So it's always advisable
    to do the registrar transfers while they're still paid.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    May 2005
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    San Mateo, CA, US
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    Quote Originally Posted by gerolsteiner
    Doesn't ICANN state that even domains that are expired must be allowed to transfer? I know for sure that some registrars allow domains that are expired to transfer - I thought this was due to ICANN policy...
    I think registrars are allowed to deny a transfer if the domain is expired:

    http://www.icann.org/transfers/policy-12jul04.htm

    The Registrar of Record has other mechanisms available to collect payment from the Registered Name Holder that are independent from the Transfer process. Hence, in the event of a dispute over payment, the Registrar of Record must not employ transfer processes as a mechanism to secure payment for services from a Registered Name Holder. Exceptions to this requirement are as follows:

    (i) In the case of non-payment for previous registration period(s) if the transfer is requested after the expiration date, or

    (ii) In the case of non-payment of the current registration period, if transfer is requested before the expiration date.

  11. #11
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    Jun 2005
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    I would have thought it reasonable for a registrar to deny the transfer after expiration, since they are going to be charged for it anyway.

  12. #12
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    May 2005
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    San Mateo, CA, US
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    Quote Originally Posted by stu2
    I would have thought it reasonable for a registrar to deny the transfer after expiration, since they are going to be charged for it anyway.
    We are charged after the domain expires. The central registry auto-renews the domain. But if we delete it or it is transfered away within the 45 day grace period, we get the money back.

    So there is no financial loss to the registrar if they allow a transfer after expiration as long as it is within the 45 day grace period.

    I am 95% sure this is correct, but the registry auto-renew rules are complex, so someone please correct me if I am wrong.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    May 2004
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    Quote Originally Posted by dynadot
    I am 95% sure this is correct, but the registry auto-renew rules are complex
    I think that's part of the larger problem. There are rules and procedures -not just guidelines, but actual rules- but they're so hard to interpret that domain holders never know what's going to happen, and as dynadot says even registrars themselves aren't always sure.

    And this goes beyond just transfers.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by dynadot
    I think registrars are allowed to deny a transfer if the domain is expired:

    http://www.icann.org/transfers/policy-12jul04.htm

    The Registrar of Record has other mechanisms available to collect payment from the Registered Name Holder that are independent from the Transfer process. Hence, in the event of a dispute over payment, the Registrar of Record must not employ transfer processes as a mechanism to secure payment for services from a Registered Name Holder. Exceptions to this requirement are as follows:

    (i) In the case of non-payment for previous registration period(s) if the transfer is requested after the expiration date, or

    (ii) In the case of non-payment of the current registration period, if transfer is requested before the expiration date.
    One case to that exception is a chargeback.

    Let's say the domain name was renewed 3 weeks before expiration. 3 days later,
    someone files a chargeback just like that.

    Assuming the chargeback pushes through, the registrar subsequently loses the
    renewal fee and is charged a "penalty" fee for that. So the registrar suspends the
    domain name and "takes it away" from its registrant.

    So when the domain name expires and someone tries to transfer it out, it won't
    push through due to the chargeback. And that's a valid reason.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
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    5,929
    So...apparently, at least where a Fabulous-to-enom transfer is concerned, you can have a domain expire mid-transfer and still have it go through okay with no unanticipated or extraordinary fees involved
    I'm at this very moment doing a mini-consolidation of my domains. I inadvertantly put in a requested transfer at eNom for a domain which had already expired 7 days ago at Fabulous. So far, I've confirmed eNom's consent request. We shall see soon enough if it gets transferred.

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