Web Hosting Talk : Web Hosting Main Forums : Managed Hosting and Services : Upgrading w/ Rackspace

[superjsuh]

Hi Everyone,
I've been lurking these forums for a while now reading many reviews on managed and un-managed dedicated hosting. Appreciate the expertise that many of you have unknowingly passed on to me.

We've got a social networking website that is launching for Beta test in 2 weeks, and we expect it to grow quickly with eventual support for video streams, IM/Chat, large photo galleries, and other high-bandwith usages.

Of course we don't need anything fancy now since we're starting from a small user base, and so I was looking at a basic package from Rackspace for $400/month.

We've also looked at fastservers, softlayer, EV1, and a few others based on all the reviews I've been reading at WHT. I'm attracted to rackspace due to the overwhelming consensus here that their support is unparalleled. As we grow, we'll need that support for things like load balancing, firewalls, automated backup, additional servers, and upgrades.

My concern is on upgrading hardware and services. Rackspace doesn't spell out their prices on their website, and have no a-la-carte type pricing like others (ex. http://www.softlayer.com/product.html and http://www.softlayer.com/service.html).

I do expect rackspace to charge more for their products and services, but I'm worried that they will charge excessively when I want to upgrade once I've been a customer of theirs. My question is if they've been reasonable in pricing when doing upgrades and roughly match what others in the industry charge for similar hardware/services. I've got a lot of negotiating power now that I can leverage since they're trying to sign me on as a new customer. But after I've been a customer, will they still be easy and flexible to work with when I need to upgrade?

Thanks for any insights you can share...

[Scott.Mc]

Why not ask sales?

Even though they don't price on thier just just click the live chat when it pops up.

-Scott

[easyplank]

Yeah that live chat is the most ANNOYING thing in the world.. every page u go on... ahhh...

So maybe there might be a use for it for someone out there!!

[mripguru]

Originally Posted by Scott.Mc

Why not ask sales?

Even though they don't price on thier just just click the live chat when it pops up.

-Scott

.... and those people usually just reel you in to talk to an "Account Manager", utterly useless.

[ACW]

I have dealt with Rackspace before for client projects and the experience has been a good one. I don't remember ever upgrading a given setup so I can't help you with any first hand experience in that respect.

If you are truly worried about what they will charge once you need to upgrade why not get a quote for what you think you will need a year from now. It will not be any good at that point (I think they only guarantee a quote for 30 days) but you will at least have a ball park idea of what they charge for a more complex setup.

The fact is that most providers only list what they consider to be standard setups. Anything requiring clusters or load balancing will likely require a quote. And even if they do list a price at this time, you never know what they will ask for when you do need to upgrade.

[mripguru]

Originally Posted by ACW

I have dealt with Rackspace before for client projects and the experience has been a good one. I don't remember ever upgrading a given setup so I can't help you with any first hand experience in that respect.

If you are truly worried about what they will charge once you need to upgrade why not get a quote for what you think you will need a year from now. It will not be any good at that point (I think they only guarantee a quote for 30 days) but you will at least have a ball park idea of what they charge for a more complex setup.

The fact is that most providers only list what they consider to be standard setups. Anything requiring clusters or load balancing will likely require a quote. And even if they do list a price at this time, you never know what they will ask for when you do need to upgrade.

Actually, I think Rackspace defines their pricing based on what they *think* they can get out of you - basically, if they think they can sucker you into paying more, they will. It's not an even playing field. I've seen *at least* 2 people getting 2 different prices for the *same exact thing*, but they were both in different businesses. The motto in their business is "start higher, sell high". Also, Rackspace has a solid network, not doubting that, but, their management is pretty basic (heck, they had to "kickstart" a box 3 times in order to get "Hostware" (their branded version of H-Sphere) to install properly), at that was at $75/pop. Ouch.

[superjsuh]

Originally Posted by mripguru

Actually, I think Rackspace defines their pricing based on what they *think* they can get out of you - basically, if they think they can sucker you into paying more, they will. It's not an even playing field. I've seen *at least* 2 people getting 2 different prices for the *same exact thing*, but they were both in different businesses. The motto in their business is "start higher, sell high". Also, Rackspace has a solid network, not doubting that, but, their management is pretty basic (heck, they had to "kickstart" a box 3 times in order to get "Hostware" (their branded version of H-Sphere) to install properly), at that was at $75/pop. Ouch.

And that is my fear mripguru. I can leverage different quotes against them now, but once I'm a customer, that leveraging power diminishes.

I'd hate to migrate everything to another hosting company if I feel Rackspace is ripping me off later down the line...

[mripguru]

Originally Posted by superjsuh

And that is my fear mripguru. I can leverage different quotes against them now, but once I'm a customer, that leveraging power diminishes.

I'd hate to migrate everything to another hosting company if I feel Rackspace is ripping me off later down the line...

Well, as long as you have a month-to-month agreement with them, you should be fine (don't sign a 6-12 month agreement, especially for something as volatile as hosting) - you may pay a bit more for it (monthly and setup). If you don't like the quote they give you, then you can move and not have any reprecussions. Another option theoretically is to see if you can get a price freeze in place now, before you are a customer (i.e. they can only charge you $x for y, no matter when you order it) - they can have stuff like that written into the contract. I know I've seen contracts that have terms like that on it.

[ACW]

Originally Posted by mripguru

Actually, I think Rackspace defines their pricing based on what they *think* they can get out of you - basically, if they think they can sucker you into paying more, they will. It's not an even playing field. I've seen *at least* 2 people getting 2 different prices for the *same exact thing*, but they were both in different businesses. The motto in their business is "start higher, sell high". Also, Rackspace has a solid network, not doubting that, but, their management is pretty basic (heck, they had to "kickstart" a box 3 times in order to get "Hostware" (their branded version of H-Sphere) to install properly), at that was at $75/pop. Ouch.

That may be true but does not help the OP unless you are trying to dissuade him from using Rackspece. The fact is that many providers do just that - in hosting, software and hardware.

Originally Posted by superjsuh

And that is my fear mripguru. I can leverage different quotes against them now, but once I'm a customer, that leveraging power diminishes.

I'd hate to migrate everything to another hosting company if I feel Rackspace is ripping me off later down the line...

It is a chance you take when getting products and services where there are no list prices. And unfortunately, we are hard pressed to find a list of prices for custom setups.

Originally Posted by mripguru

Another option theoretically is to see if you can get a price freeze in place now, before you are a customer (i.e. they can only charge you $x for y, no matter when you order it) - they can have stuff like that written into the contract. I know I've seen contracts that have terms like that on it.

I think that is worth a try. In business anything is negotiable.

[mripguru]

Originally Posted by ACW

That may be true but does not help the OP unless you are trying to dissuade him from using Rackspece. The fact is that many providers do just that - in hosting, software and hardware.

Not really - I can think of quite a few other outfits that are much more reasonable (as far as having a fixed published pricelist, ala some of the ones that the OP mentioned). I'm not trying to sway the OP one way or another, I just want to see a *published pricelist* from them that they adhere to (with potentially some wiggle room, but not much).

[mripguru]

Originally Posted by ACW

It is a chance you take when getting products and services where there are no list prices. And unfortunately, we are hard pressed to find a list of prices for custom setups.

Yes, but there *should* be a baseline price.

[ACW]

Originally Posted by mripguru

Yes, but there *should* be a baseline price.

I think he can consider his current quote the baseline price. And perhaps I'm missing something but I don't think they publish cost for load balancing - a feature the OP is interested in.

[mripguru]

Originally Posted by ACW

I think he can consider his current quote the baseline price. And perhaps I'm missing something but I don't think they publish cost for load balancing - a feature the OP is interested in.

I'm talking about a *global* baseline, not a baseline based on what he's worth to them.

[ACW]

Originally Posted by superjsuh

...once I'm a customer, that leveraging power diminishes.

I'd hate to migrate everything to another hosting company if I feel Rackspace is ripping me off later down the line...

That is not entirely true. They are better off keeping a good customer (one that pays bills on time month after month, realistic with requests, etc.) than loosing you for being opportunistic. But if once you are a customer you begin new negotiations thinking that they have the upper hand because you would simply hate to migrate then they will have the advantage - because you gave it to them.

I just saw a post here today where a customer was looking to move because he could not afford what he was quoted for an upgrade. The provider eventually posted indicating they were willing to negotiate.

[superjsuh]

Originally Posted by ACW

That is not entirely true. They are better off keeping a good customer (one that pays bills on time month after month, realistic with requests, etc.) than loosing you for being opportunistic. But if once you are a customer you begin new negotiations thinking that they have the upper hand because you would simply hate to migrate then they will have the advantage - because you gave it to them.

I just saw a post here today where a customer was looking to move because he could not afford what he was quoted for an upgrade. The provider eventually posted indicating they were willing to negotiate.

I see your point, thanks for the inputs.

What I don't look forward to doing is knowing that I will have to negotiate (which it seems like judging from other posts). A la carte pricing is nice so that I don't have to "threaten" to move.

Is migration an easy thing to do? How much downtime does one expect? (sorry, I couldn't find the other thread you were referring to)

Thanks again