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Thread: Backordering

  1. #1
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    Backordering

    Back Ordering a domain is less than useless and a complete waste of your money. You are almost guaranteed never to receive the domain if it has any perceived value. PERIOD.

    The way to go about obtaining possession of an expiring domain is to do a whois seach for the domain, find where it is currently registered and make a bid in the ensuing auction at the place where that registrar farms out their domains for auction. That way you also avoid all the drop-catch shenanegans.

    Some of the popular registrar auction partners are:-

    GoDaddy -> The Domain Name After Market (a GoDaddy company)
    Network Solutions -> SnapNames
    Directi -> Snapnames
    It'sYourDomain -> Snapnames
    Bulk Register -> Snapnames
    Moniker -> Snapnames
    DomainSite -> Snapnames
    Dotster -> NameWinner
    Enom -> ClubDrop

    If anyone else can add to that list, it would be appreciated.

    I've never used a drop catcher, but I hear a lot of good things to be said for pool.com, and you must be prepared to enter a blind auction once they have acquired the domain, so it may not be cheap. Drop catching is an art that pool.com have mastered. However it's better to buy it at auction BEFORE the domain actually is dropped from the registrar.

    stu

  2. #2
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    Just a note of clarification. When I refer to backordering, I'm referring to backordering at a registrar, not back ordering at a drop-catcher or expired domain auction house, who may also use the same terminology. Always order you expiring domain name from an expired domain name auction house partnered with the underlying registrar for that domain. It's you're best chance of acquiring your name.

  3. #3
    clubdrop didn't work on my 5 attempts, even domains with Enom, their own system!

  4. #4
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    What do you mean by didn't work? You were outbid? The domains were auctioned somewhere else? they were renewed?

  5. #5
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    There has been a report of some "leakage" of the preferred auction partner of the domain's registrar not being the one who ultimately gets to auction of the domain. How this happens is not known.

    The strategy outlined above, where you only bid on the preferred auction partner of the registrar should be updated accordingly. Now, irrespective of which registrar (except GoDaddy), it is prudent to bid at all four major drop catch/auction houses. Namely, snapnames.com, pool.com, namewinner.com, and clubdrop.com. Bidding at the other auction houses who are not the preferred auction partner for the domain's registrar is only insurance, in case of any "leakage". In the vast majority of cases, the preferred auction partner of the domain's registrar will still be the one who gets to auction off the domain name.

    The exception of course is Godaddy registered domains, which should still be bid at tdnam.com

    Some have asked "Am I competing with myself?" with this strategy. It's really unknown but it's probably unlikely that an auction house is participating in the auction of one of it's competitors.

    There has been a marked upswing in the number of bidders, and consequently prices are also up in all these auction houses. You may need to raise your expectations of the prices you need to pay to win your desired domain.

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  7. #7
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    My philosophy regarding backordering, is that if it really is a MUST HAVE domain, then you are better off negotiating with the existing registrant, thereby cutting out virtually all competition. You may pay more or less with that strategy rather than waiting for the drop, but you are always more certain to obtain the domain.

    If the domain is already in the drop and it's a MUST HAVE domain, then by all means you HAVE to bid at every available dropcatcher. If it is something LESS THAN A MUST HAVE name, then it really isn't necessary to bid at all dropcatchers but only at the most likely dropcatcher, ie NetSol registered domains selling at SnapNames auctions, etc. You'll have covered your bases 95% but you won't get too disappointed if you don't get the domain. There a very few MUST HAVE dropping domains in my book.

  8. #8
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    There are cases where, in my opinion/wild guess, that it would be better to try to dropcatch a MUST HAVE domain. The exception would be a name that isn't very desirable toa anyone else. If I am with a company named Big Blue Duck and bigblueduck.com has no website and is about to expire, I could just have godaddy grab it, figuring that nobody else will be bidding for it. All the more so for bigbluduck.com and bigblueduk.com -- common mis-spellings. It doesn't make sense to let the owner know what his property is worth -- sort of how Disney bought huge amounts of Florida land before anyone knew that Disney World was coming.

    I made a list of such names a couple of years ago and had godaddy try to grab them, and so far I got 2 for a very low price. After learning more about how the system works, I am now backordering them on every dropcatch service that will let me, and negotiating with the owners only when the expiration is 2010 or later.

    I am by no means an expert, but that's how it seems to me.

  9. #9
    I use drop catchers for domains I know would never make it back into the available list. I tried SnapName.com and Pool.com. SnapNames usually got the domain, but I noticed a huge price difference in similar domains that went to Pool. I still put bids in at both, but it unless it goes to Pool, I figure I don't have much of a chance in getting it.

  10. #10
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    guymacon, I understand what you are saying, and agree with your thoughts to an extent, but tdnam are best at grabbing GoDaddy registered domains. The other area which GoDaddy backordering might work is in the situation where the domain name actually drops from the register and no dropcatcher picks it up (because nobody back ordered it or bought it at an expired domain auction), or if another registrar picks it up, "tastes" it and let's it drop after 5 days. In these very narrow circumstances, a GoDaddy back order would probably succeed. However in your example, you are gambling that no other backorders for the main domain name bigblueduck.com in ANY of the auction houses which are auctioning off expiring names. If there is 1, then you'll be stuck with the 2 mispellings of a relatively undesireable domain name. In which case, I'd suggest ordering bigblueduck.com at the registrar's auction partner, and the two mispellings at GoDaddy.

    Domainer Zone, I think we are all in agreement to only needing to order from a dropcatcher if the domain would never make it back to being available for registration. But it's a gamble to wait that long. Not suggested for MUST HAVE domains whatever your level of confidence is that it will definitely drop and not be bought at auction.

    I still suggest that you are most likely to succeed in capturing an expiring domain by bidding for it at auction with the auction house associated with the registrar for the expiring domain name. This will work for almost all cases, unless you're outbid. Of course there are always other situations, which we are/have been discussing above.

  11. #11
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    Domain Name Renewals of Expiring Domains

    OK. I put this article here because the Domain Name Renewals process is an intregral part of the entire Backordering of Expiring Domain Names process. You need to understand the previous owners rights to renewing their domain names and where the auction process sits within the entire deletion process. You will see that backordering a dropping domain name is getting the LAST bite at the cherry. Whereas you want to be as high up the food chain as possible by participating in the Registrar's Preferred Auction Partner's Auction, which is taking place PRIOR to any domain being deleted.

    Domain Name Renewals.

    ICANN/VERISIGN
    Change of ICANN/Verisign Redemption Periods.

    How does the RGP process work?

    Prior to January 25th, domains were deleted in the following manner:

    1. Registrar deleted a domain name.
    2. Domain name was placed on registry-hold for 5 days (this removed it from the zone file).
    3. Domain was then deleted out of the Registry in a batch process on the 6th day.

    Post January 25th, domain name deletions now follow the new RGP guidelines:

    1. Registrar deletes a domain name.
    2. Domain name is placed on RedemptionPeriod (RP) for 30 days.
    3. During this 30 day window, if the registrant would like the name redeemed, they need to:

    o Call their registrar.
    o The registrar will "restore" the domain name using the Restore Command for a fee. (This fee is determined by the registrar.)
    o This places the domain on "PendingRestore" status for 7 days (and places the domain name back in the zone file).
    o The registrar must then submit a restore report to the Registry.
    o Once the Restore Command and Restore Report process is completed, the name goes back on "Active" status.

    4. If, after 30 days, the name is still in RP status, the domain name will be moved to PENDINGDELETE status for 5 days.

    o When in this status, the domain name WILL BE deleted.
    o The status cannot be removed by the registrar or the Registry.

    5. On the 6th day, the name is then deleted from the Registry.
    In simple terms, this means:

    > Expiry Date
    > Registrar Dependant
    > Registrar Delete
    > 30 Day Redemption Period at Registry (can be renewed by paying Registrar's Redemption Fee)
    > 5 Day Pending Delete
    > Delete on 6th Day
    > Backorder Services (Pool/SnapNames/NameWinner/ClubDrop/GoDaddy) scramble to register the deleted domain.

    It should be pointed out that Registrar Dependant actions between Expiry Date and Registrar Delete are entirely Registrar dependant, including their right to renew the domain on their behalf and to sell to somebody else, according to the Terms of Service (ToS) of each Registrar. The most popular Registrar's ToS are explained below:-


    GODADDY

    If you fail to renew your domain name, you agree that Go Daddy may, at its sole discretion, renew your expired domain name on your behalf. If Go Daddy decides to renew your expired domain name on your behalf you will have a Renewal Grace Period during which you may reimburse Go Daddy for the renewal and keep your domain name. The Renewal Grace Period is currently 12 days but subject to change under the terms of Section 2 of this Agreement. If you do not reimburse Go Daddy for the renewal during the Renewal Grace Period your domain name will be placed on Hold and flagged for deletion after which you will have a 30 day redemption period during which you may pay Go Daddy a Redemption fee and redeem your domain name. The Redemption fee is currently $80 USD and is subject to change under the terms of Section 2 of this agreement. If you do not redeem your domain name prior to the end of the 30 day redemption period Go Daddy may, at its sole discretion, delete your domain name or transfer it to another registrant on your behalf.
    In simple terms, this means:
    > Expiry Date
    > 12 day Renewal Grace Period (can be renewed by paying GoDaddy's regular renewal fee)
    > 30 day Redemption Period (can be renewed by paying GoDaddy's Redemption Fee of $80)
    > GoDaddy will attempt to auction off the domain before they Registrar Delete the domain.
    > Registrar Delete

    GoDaddy's ToS say that they pay the renewal fee at their discretion. They are silent about the scenario where their discretion is not to renew the domain. It implies that they ALWAYS renew every expiring domain. Otherwise the only alternative to renewing would seem to be to delete, and they are again silent about what period of time that might be from Expiry Date to Registrar Delete (if they don't renew).

    It would make sense for GoDaddy to coincide the expiry of their TDNAM auction with the expiry of their 30 day Redemption Period. It would appear that they end domain auctions 14 days prior to the end of their Redemption Period. This is what TDNAM have to say about it..

    The Domain Name Aftermarket is obligated to hold the domain in your account until the current registrant's renewal window has closed. Members winning expired domain auctions (recently expired names that have a very high chance of not being renewed) wait just 2 weeks for the name to be reassigned.
    ENOM

    Immediately after the expiration of the term of domain name registration services and before deletion of the domain name in the applicable registry's database, you acknowledge that we may direct the domain name to name-servers and IP address(es) designated by us, including, without limitation, to no IP address or to IP address(es) which host a parking page or a commercial search engine that may display advertisements, and you acknowledge that we may either leave your WHOIS information intact or that we may change the contact information in the WHOIS output for the expired domain name so that you are no longer the listed registrant of the expired domain name.

    Reactivation Period Process. For a period of approximately 30 days after expiration of the term of domain name registration services, you acknowledge that we may provide a procedure by which expired domain name registration services may be renewed. You acknowledge and agree that we may, but are not obligated to, offer this process, called the "reactivation period." You acknowledge that you assume all risks and all consequences if you wait until close to or after the expiration of the original term of domain name registration services to attempt to renew the domain name registration services. You acknowledge that we, for any reason and in our sole discretion, may choose not to offer a reactivation period and that we shall not be liable therefore. You acknowledge that reactivation period renewal processes, if any, may involve additional fees which we and your Primary Service Provider may determine. You acknowledge and agree that we may make expired domain name services(s) available to third parties, that we may auction off the rights to expired domain name services (the auction beginning close to the end or after the end of the reactivation period), and/or that expired domain name registration services may be re-registered to any party at any time.

    After the reactivation period, you agree that we may either (i) discontinue the domain name registration services at any time thereafter, (ii) that we may pay the registry's registration fee or otherwise provide for the registration services to be continued, or, (iii) if we auctioned the domain name services to a third party, that we may transfer the domain name registration services to such third party.

    In the case of (i), above, you acknowledge that certain registry administrators may provide procedures by which discontinued domain name registration services may nonetheless be renewed. You acknowledge and agree that we may, but are not obligated to, participate in this process, typically called the "Redemption Grace Period" ("RGP"). You acknowledge that we, for any reason and in our sole discretion, may choose not to participate in the RGP process with respect to any or all of your domain name registration services and that we shall not be liable therefore. If available, RGP typically ends between 30 and 42 days after the end of the reactivation period of the domain name services, as the reactivation period applied to you. The typical RGP fee is $160 plus any registration fees. You agree that we are not obliged to contact you to alert you that the domain name registration services are being discontinued.

    In the case of (ii), above, you acknowledge that we may then set the name-servers and the DNS settings for the domain name services, that we set the DNS to point to no IP address or to IP address(es) which host parking page(s) or a commercial search engine that may display paid advertisements, and you acknowledge that we may change the contact information in the WHOIS output for the expired domain name so that you are no longer the listed registrant of the expired domain name. You acknowledge that we do not have to pay you any of the proceeds, if any, we may earn as a result. You agree that we are not obliged to contact you to alert you that the domain name registration services are being continued. In this case, the domain name will be designated as being in the extended redemption grace period ("ERGP"), and you will be allowed to assume, during the first 120 days of the then extant registration term, complete management of the domain name services, including the right to control the DNS settings, provided that you pay a fee of $160 (US dollars) plus any registration fees. After the end of the 120-day period, if you do not exercise your rights under this provision, you agree that you have abandoned the domain name services, and relinquish all rights and use of the domain name services.

    In the case of (iii), above, the third party who won the auction for the domain name services will control the domain name services, including control over the WHOIS information and the DNS settings. You may recover the domain name registration services for a period of up to 42 days after the end of the reactivation period, as such reactivation period applied to you. You agree that we are not obliged to contact you to alert you that the domain name registration services are or were auctioned. You acknowledge that we do not have to pay you any of the proceeds, if any, we may earn as a result of such an auction. To exercise your rights to recover auctioned domain name services, you must contact us and provide us with a certified letter addressed to "Expiration Recovery" and including documents setting forth your identity and address, which identity and address must be the same as that of the registrant as it was listed in the WHOIS information for the domain name services prior to expiration, a copy of a commonly accepted (in the United States) picture ID (such as a drivers license or passport) which supports your identity and address claim, a front and back photocopy of your credit card and you must a statement authorizing payment of the reinstatement fee to such credit card, which is $160 plus any registration fees. In doing so, you must provide us with sufficient time to allow us to receive and evaluate your documents and to contact the auction winner prior to the end of 30 days after the end of the reactivation period of the domain name services.
    In simple terms, this means:

    > Expiry Date
    > 30 day Reactivation Period (often only 29 days) at Enom's discretion (can usually be renewed by paying Enom's normal renewal fee)
    then either:
    i> 12 days (approx) Redemption Grace Period at Enom's discretion (can be renewed by paying Enom's Redemption Grace Period Fee of $160 plus regular renewal fee)
    or
    ii> 120 Extended Redemption Grace Period at Enom's discretion (can be renewed by paying Enom's Extended Redemption Grace Period Fee of $160 plus regular renewal fee)
    or
    iii> Enom auction off the domain at ClubDrop.
    then:
    > Registrar Delete

    It should pointed out that these options are an either/or situation at Enom's discretion. I would suggest that it's in Enom's best interest to auction off the domain after the 29-30 day Reactivation Period, and that you'll only get offered options (i) or (ii) if the domain has not sold at auction at the time you contact Enom about your previously owned domain.


    NETWORK SOLUTIONS

    If a customer does not renew the domain name registration by the expiration date, the domain name registration is subject to deletion at any time after that. In an effort to help our customers avoid unintentional deletion of their domain name registration(s), we may, but are not obligated to, provide our customers with a "grace period" after their domain name registration services expiration date(s) (a "grace period" begins on the day after the date of expiration). We currently endeavor to provide a grace period that extends 35 days past the expiration date, to allow the renewal of domain name registration services. During this period a customer can renew a domain name registration; however, a grace period is not guaranteed and can change or be eliminated at any time without notice. Consequently, every customer who desires to renew his or her domain name registration services should do so in advance of the expiration date to avoid any unintended domain name deletion.

    If an expired domain name registration is not renewed during any grace period provided by us, pursuant to our Service Agreement, rather than delete the domain name registration, we may, in our sole discretion, attempt to find a third party who is interested in registering the domain name, and then renew and transfer the domain name registration to that third party on the customer's behalf. This renewal and transfer process is called a "Direct Transfer." We will not attempt to complete a Direct Transfer of a domain name registration after expiration if the customer to whom the domain name is registered has notified us by e-mail at backorderservice@networksolutions.com stating that he or she does not want us to proceed with such a transfer. In this case, the domain name registration will be deleted. A customer's failure to notify us that they do not want us to complete a Direct Transfer constitutes that customer's consent to the Direct Transfer. As described in our in our Service Agreement, customers are eligible to receive between fifteen and twenty percent (15-20%) of the Net Proceeds generated from the Direct Transfer.

    If an expired domain name registration is not renewed as outlined above, absent extenuating circumstances, we will delete the domain name registration. Registry Operators may provide registrars with the ability to "redeem" a deleted domain name registration for a customer, and we, in turn, may (but are not obligated to) provide customers with an ability to redeem a particular domain name registration. Such a Redemption Grace Period (RGP) is not guaranteed and customers should renew their domain name registration services in advance of the domain name registration expiration date(s) to avoid deletion of domain name registration services. Currently, the Registry Operators provide an RGP for 30 days from the date of deletion. If we decide to provide the redemption service to a customer, we charge a fee of $150 to redeem and renew a domain name registration during the RGP. If the domain name registration is not redeemed by the expiration of the RGP, it is then placed on "Pending Delete" status for five additional days, after which it is deleted and the domain name character string is then once again available for registration.
    OK. This is a bit long-winded. In simple terms, this means:

    > Expiry Date
    > 35 Day Grace Period at NetSol's discretion.
    > Netsol try to sell domain at SnapNames (at any time after expiry)
    > Registrar Delete
    > Icann/Verisign 30 day Grace Period (can be renewed by paying Netsol's Redemption Grace Period Fee of $150)

    Interesting. You can instruct NetSol not to Direct Transfer (Auction Off) a domain. Also you get between 15-30% of the auction income to NetSol. They probably try to coincide the auction date with the Grace Period end date since SnapNames arranges transfer to the winning buyer usually within 24hrs or less.


    NAMECHEAP

    You will be notified via an email message or via your account information when renewal fees are due. Should these fees go unpaid within the time specified in a second notice or reminder regarding renewal, your registration will be cancelled. Payment must be made by credit card or such other method as we may indicate in the registration application or renewal form. We will not automatically renew your name unless you instruct us otherwise within the time specified and provide us with your payment information. As a courtesy, we will try to inform you of the domain expiration and you are responsible for renewing your domain before it expires. We might be able to recover your expired domain for a fees within a certain period after expiry. We will reinstate your rights to and control over these Services solely at our discretion, and subject to our receipt of the unpaid fee(s) and our then-current reinstatement fee, currently set at US $200. Reinstatement of Service(s) by your Primary Service Provider may be according to their terms.
    In simple terms, this means:

    > Expiry Date
    > Renewal can be effected by paying Reinstatement Fee of $200 plus normal renewal fees.
    > Registrar Delete

    They don't mention any Grace Periods at all. It's stated they delete the domain after it expires and fees are unpaid, but gives no timeframe. Presumably immediately.
    Last edited by stub; 04-04-2006 at 12:44 AM.

  12. #12
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    Domain Status Codes Explained

    Here is a pretty good link to the explanation of what these Domain Status Codes mean... http://help.godaddy.com/article.php?...topic_id=201&&

    You might find some other interesting info in GoDaddy's Help System.
    Last edited by stub; 04-10-2006 at 02:36 AM.

  13. #13
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    Richard from NameCheap has confirmed that there is a 30 day grace period after expiry when domains can be renewed for just the renewal fee.

  14. #14
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    for me I will not use backordering as expensive... I will wait for the day the domain actual deleted and register
    Give them a chance = http://www.worldvision.org =

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  15. #15
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    For any desireable name, you'll wait until hell freezes over, GigabitONE.

  16. #16
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    "Expired domain names typically go up for auction between 19 and 29 days after they have expired. It would therefore seem likely that the auction for the domain name in question has already taken place."

    Godaddy CS

    The domain I wanted is on redemption period. however, it expired on March 2nd. I guess it's too late to even to go snapnames or pool because is has already gone to the auctions and the person who backordered it is just now waiting for it?
    Last edited by berlin; 05-13-2006 at 03:13 AM.

  17. #17
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    At GoDaddy, they have a 12 day grace period followed by a 30 day redemption period. That's 42 days + 5 more days Pending Delete at ICANN. March 2nd to May 18th, is already way past that timescale. The domain would normally have either been picked up at auction and in the winner bidder's account already, or dropped and picked up by a drop-catcher. If they hadn't picked it up it would now be available for registration.

    The example you give where the domain is still in redemption is not an ordinary case. The GoDaddy ToS say everything is at their discretion. When the domain expires, ICANN automatically renew it for 1 year at the registrar. So it is in GoDaddy's account and they can do what they like with it. GoDaddy need to delete it at the registry, perhaps they haven't done that.

    It would appear that nobody backordered the domain, else they would have won it at auction already. Can you not place a backorder on the domain? If not, ask them if you can purchase the domain from them. If not place a bid at all the dropcatchers.
    Last edited by stub; 05-18-2006 at 06:29 PM.

  18. #18
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    OK. I can now say with some degree of confidence how the expired domains drop at GoDaddy (having experience it).

    Expire: Day 0
    Renewal Grace Period: 12 days
    Redemption Grace Period: 29 days (they appear to count both start and end dates to make 30 days)
    Deleted from account: Day 41
    TDNAM Auction: After deletion but date not yet known

    The Redemption Grace Period is the same as offered by ICANN, so if the domain doesn't go to auction it goes to Pending Delete status for 5 days and drops on the 6th day. Usually this won't happen because GoDaddy have already paid for the domain to be renewed. So they can take their time listing it on TDNAM (this is why date listed on TDNAM still isn't known).

    I have been informed by support that the transition from Renewal Grace Period to Redemption Grace Period can be up to another 5 days, but not to count on it. This might extend the Delete date by 5 days, but don't count on it. I've never seen it. After 41 days, it's gone.

    An example might demonstrate this clearly.

    Domain expires: 7-14
    Renewal Grace Period ends: 7-26
    Redemption Grace Period ends: 8-25

    Bye-bye domain on 8-25.
    __________________
    Last edited by stub; 08-28-2006 at 09:58 PM.
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  19. #19
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    oops! My maths! It's 42 days
    Last edited by stub; 08-28-2006 at 10:09 PM.
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  20. #20
    i think that Backordering is a failar way to get a domain i prefer to choose my domain name which good for my site content and seo

  21. #21
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    does anyone know what auction company REGISTER.COM uses for expiring domains.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by GigabitONE
    for me I will not use backordering as expensive... I will wait for the day the domain actual deleted and register
    It may not work. I am also suffering from the same problem and i too thought i would wait for it to be deleted.
    But now my domain is being grabbed by "domain taster" or domain kiting companies. It was registered with somebody for 5 days then enom.com registered it. ( i saw the whois but after a few hours they changed it to a dummy company it is unbelievable that enom does domain kiting I would never use enom) and now it has been grabbed my name.net.
    The only thing i can do is take a backorder from godaddy.com so when it is dropped after the 5 day period i can grab.
    Earlier i had a "spare" (long story) backorder. Godaddy do not refer backorders and one of my clients had a domain which he used for redirection he had forgotten about it. It went into redemption period and then he told me to renew it.
    I just used that "spare" backorder and got it back as soon as the redemption period got over.
    The problem is with domains that have traffic. I have another domain which expired but now it is free. I have to talk to the client to renew it. This particular domain was not getting any hits so that is why non one wants.

    The domain I am after get atleast a few hits every week. So now I am goint to check the days calculate it and then try to grab it. WHen hey have given it back. But I dont think i can get it if someone has already back ordered it.
    Lets see I have still have 20 days or I will ask my client to shell out 18.95 for the backorder.

    I am thinking of trying some domain grabbing tools before taking a back order searching for some tools right now. I think you can try that too before back ordering

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by SharkSpace
    Do you know who dotreg.com uses?
    dotreg appears to be affiliated to dotster in some way, so I would say NameWinner according to the OP.
    Email: info ///at/// honelive.com

  24. #24
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    NameWinner is defunct. Dotster registered domains now go to Snapnames.
    Signature Under Construction.

  25. #25
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    e3internet auction their expired domains off too., and RSS their current domains
    for auction list, which is handy.

    on the subject of "drop catching" i am avaialble to catch you .co.uk domains,
    PM me if your interested
    Last edited by writespeak; 08-20-2008 at 09:11 PM.
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