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  #1  
Old 01-04-2006, 01:46 AM
Skeptical Skeptical is offline
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Relocating to India or China


I'm looking to decrease my overhead so that I can increase my number of employees. Therefore I'm looking to relocate either to India or China, from the U.S. I'm Chinese so obviously I feel more at ease in China, with the people and culture. Plus I've just returned from a trip there and I like it.

However, Indians seem to have a better grasp of English, and that's needed for certain things like customer support, since most of my customers are Americans.

What I will need are programmers, designers, and tech support people. For tech support, they will only need to communicate via web support tickets and email, and not by phone.

Does anyone have any input or insight into this? I'm having a tough time deciding. Things like the level of skill between IT people from these two countries, or the pay.

Also, is anyone familiar with the culture change from the U.S. to India? I've not gone to India yet but I am planning a trip to have a look, just so I can be sure.

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  #2  
Old 01-04-2006, 06:35 AM
etechsupport2 etechsupport2 is offline
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I think this link would help you for relocation; http://www.indobase.com/bpo/future-p...ver-china.html

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  #3  
Old 01-04-2006, 07:22 AM
ashridhar ashridhar is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skeptical
I'm looking to decrease my overhead so that I can increase my number of employees. Therefore I'm looking to relocate either to India or China, from the U.S. I'm Chinese so obviously I feel more at ease in China, with the people and culture. Plus I've just returned from a trip there and I like it.

However, Indians seem to have a better grasp of English, and that's needed for certain things like customer support, since most of my customers are Americans.

What I will need are programmers, designers, and tech support people. For tech support, they will only need to communicate via web support tickets and email, and not by phone.

Does anyone have any input or insight into this? I'm having a tough time deciding. Things like the level of skill between IT people from these two countries, or the pay.

Also, is anyone familiar with the culture change from the U.S. to India? I've not gone to India yet but I am planning a trip to have a look, just so I can be sure.
Hmm..I am an Indian and I have also visited China (Zhuhai) and I personally think (I quote "it is just my point of view")that the infrastructure is much better in China (especially the special economic zones) than in India.
However, you are very correct on the English front. As the medium of instruction in many schools is English in India, there is a sizeable number of English speaking population.

Many Indians do have an accent to their English, but since you have mentioned that the tech support personnel only need to communicate via web support tickets and email I dont think there could be a problem.

Additionally, there are so many programmers, designers and other IT support staff in India. One more advice, the southern part of India has more number of graduates and post graduates than the northern part of India (Most foreign owned companies are established in the south than in the northern part of India). The most popular destination for IT firms to set up office in South India is Bangalore (However, the infrastructure there is growing worse day by day).

The other popular destinations are Hyderabad, Chennai, Trivandrum and Cochin. As I was born and brought up in Chennai I would obviously recommend Chennai than other southern regions (Infrastructure is comparatively better).

Dont worry too much about the culture change. Greater percentage of foreign owned companies are from the United States.

Pay is also cheap (I don't think it is cheaper than China though). A student fresh out of college will be ready to work for US $ 200 per month.

The company that I work for is also planning to set up an office in Zhuhai, but we seem to be facing problems communicating with people there in English.

So that is the story. Now, it is upto you to take a decision on choosing China or India to set up your firm.

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  #4  
Old 01-04-2006, 08:09 AM
zeca40 zeca40 is offline
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Why not relocate to Brazil - I know that some of you must be saying 'brazil? he must be joking'... here are some advantages: in the same time zone as eastern US, very talented work force, high end infrastructure rocks, plenty of english spoken, very little culture shock (most visitors do not want to leave). And just a 6-8 hour nonstop flight to Miami, NY, Houston or LA. Everyone likes brazilians (in general). And best of all you can go to the beach after work

Quote:
A student fresh out of college will be ready to work for US $ 200 per month.
In BR it is more like US$500/month starting salary. As far as the level of IT, brazillians have been among the leaders in IT security for some time now. Not to mention the design talent.

I know that this is not what the post is about and this offers little help on choosing between china or india, but I just thought I would toss this in the bag since india/china are the obvious choices but there are many other good (sometmes better) options that get overlooked.

Good luck with your relocation wherever you go.

  #5  
Old 01-04-2006, 08:36 AM
Skeptical Skeptical is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ashridhar
Hmm..I am an Indian and I have also visited China (Zhuhai) and I personally think (I quote "it is just my point of view")that the infrastructure is much better in China (especially the special economic zones) than in India.
However, you are very correct on the English front. As the medium of instruction in many schools is English in India, there is a sizeable number of English speaking population.

Many Indians do have an accent to their English, but since you have mentioned that the tech support personnel only need to communicate via web support tickets and email I dont think there could be a problem.

Additionally, there are so many programmers, designers and other IT support staff in India. One more advice, the southern part of India has more number of graduates and post graduates than the northern part of India (Most foreign owned companies are established in the south than in the northern part of India). The most popular destination for IT firms to set up office in South India is Bangalore (However, the infrastructure there is growing worse day by day).
Could you shed some light on infrastructure? When you say China has better infrastructure, what do you mean? And how is Bangalore getting worse?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ashridhar
Pay is also cheap (I don't think it is cheaper than China though). A student fresh out of college will be ready to work for US $ 200 per month.

The company that I work for is also planning to set up an office in Zhuhai, but we seem to be facing problems communicating with people there in English.

So that is the story. Now, it is upto you to take a decision on choosing China or India to set up your firm.
It seems India is cheaper than China, if a newly grad will start at $200/month. In China I think this number is at $3-400.

Do you have any ideas as to why the company you work for wants to relocate to Zhuhai as opposed to India, or even other parts of China? Are they an IT services company? Or are they in the manufacturing business as well?

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  #6  
Old 01-04-2006, 10:05 AM
ashridhar ashridhar is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skeptical
Could you shed some light on infrastructure? When you say China has better infrastructure, what do you mean? And how is Bangalore getting worse?

Well, in Bangalore powercuts are a very common thing (you should plan accordingly to have a backup when there are powercuts). The roads are bad. Traffic is insane. On those fronts China is better.


It seems India is cheaper than China, if a newly grad will start at $200/month. In China I think this number is at $3-400.

Do you have any ideas as to why the company you work for wants to relocate to Zhuhai as opposed to India, or even other parts of China? Are they an IT services company? Or are they in the manufacturing business as well?
Our company is not relocating to Zhuhai, but is setting up one more development office in Zhuhai. Yes, we are an interactive 3D visualization and simulation development company (We offer our services and also have our own proprietary products).

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  #7  
Old 01-04-2006, 11:09 AM
rajhost rajhost is offline
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i think you should go to china

  #8  
Old 01-04-2006, 12:32 PM
mindblend mindblend is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zeca40


In BR it is more like US$500/month starting salary. As far as the level of IT, brazillians have been among the leaders in IT security for some time now. Not to mention the design talent.
Not to mention the Beaches!

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  #9  
Old 01-04-2006, 12:38 PM
David David is offline
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zeca40,

Security being 'script kiddies', right?
Personally I've considered moving out of the west solely to reduce my own cost-of-living: I'd still be wary of hiring locals of wherever I went though depending on your type of clients.

I'd recommend also visiting where you plan to go ahead of time (you've been to China but have you checked out India?). Be thorough and I'm sure you'll find your spot.

Note: I'd recommend China for you though - why not you're a native you'd fit right in!

  #10  
Old 01-04-2006, 06:43 PM
spiv spiv is offline
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Relocating or outsourcing?

Physically moving is a much bigger decision. If you are making the move solely to save on your living costs, don't forget to factor in your entire offline cost - family, friends, culture, entertainment, etc. There is a lot more to life than just economics.

Also don't forget legal system and freedom. There are still some horror stories about American Chinese that opened companies in China and tried to be honest by refusing to pay bribes. They are currently in Jail in China and nobody stateside cares to help pressure the government to release them.

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  #11  
Old 01-04-2006, 09:39 PM
Anky Anky is offline
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I don't think you can generalize the kind of service you get just by country, in either country I'm sure there's many professional high quality services available and at the same time lots of poor quality services like any other market and country.

In India I've always found the communication skills to be an issue, I'm Indian myself and have lived there many years. Even people looking for jobs might take months to just get you their resume, generally those countries aren't going to provide as high quality as other places might on average. Why? There is too much competition to the point where to the general public it's all just who can provide the lowest price and still have something working even if it wasn't done very well.

Regarding the culture - it's very different, the work ethic is much difference as well including the climate. Why do I mention the climate? I've found that the average worker in an office environment gets less done just because of climate, step outside the office and it's pretty hot and you're sweating both ways to and from work and so most people get less done than they would here in the US. Maybe I'm not making the best of points, but there is definitely a very big difference. You might be better off looking for partners to work with in the UK or just stick with the US.

Personally, I think moving to another country just to lower your own costs isn't the best move. I would find a way to make it work where are you located now.

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  #12  
Old 01-04-2006, 11:26 PM
Jahnx Jahnx is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spiv
Also don't forget legal system and freedom. There are still some horror stories about American Chinese that opened companies in China and tried to be honest by refusing to pay bribes. They are currently in Jail in China and nobody stateside cares to help pressure the government to release them.
Yes It seems quite easy to get into trouble with the law in China, and their cooperation with the US hasn't really been that great...

  #13  
Old 01-05-2006, 04:27 PM
bobcares bobcares is offline
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You are a Chinese hence you may prefer China. And that may the only point as to why I may suggest China to you for software development and services.

I strongly recommend India. In terms of infrastructure India and China are almost at par. There is not much of a difference to talk about.

If I were to get into manufacturing I would go only to China. But when it comes to Software development and services India is the Number 1 choice. That is the reason companies like Microsoft , Google, Oracle, Yahoo, Sun .... have such huge bases here.

India is quite friendly with the foreigners too. There are companies like Korean Companies like Samsung and Hyundai which do over a billion dollars worth of Business in India.

Let me give some figures which CEO of top companies promised in the last 2-3 weeks in India.
Microsoft - 1.6 billion
Intel - 1 billion
AMD - 3 billion

I was seeing an interview of Bill Gates on TV recently (He had come to India for small trip). He was saying that the University system and quality is similar to what they get in the US.. And that is the reason why MS prefers India as the most important country after the US. He said China has a lot of work in that area.

When I was in the US a couple of months back I had met customer of mine who is mainly into embedded system. He has 2 offices in India in Delhi and Chennai. He said it has been a great experience working with his Indian team. He has about 150 people in these offices.

India is a lovely country with a great history and lovely future and the present is as bright as any other country in the world


I hope I was of some help.


Regards
Amar

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  #14  
Old 01-05-2006, 05:02 PM
spiv spiv is offline
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Although I agree with you overall, India has some real challenges in that government has not invested in infrastructure and doesn't seem to be able to address urgent issues:

Lack of sufficient roads - 10mile commute in Bangalore takes hours
Lack of airport capacity/facility - travel to/from India is very frustrating
Lack of reliable electricity - companies must buy their own generators

Because of China's strong manufacturing (and centralized government - nobody said a democratic society is always better for making "command decisions") the roads, transportation, and electricity infrastructure are much better in China.

There is a huge building boom - China is constructing more skyscrapers in the big cities than any other country.

China also, for better or worse, has a hugely aggressive nuclear energy program and is currently embarked on a long-term plan to build tons of Nuclear powered generators. While all the big Western nuke companies are enjoying the new sales of nuclear reactors (France, US, etc.) we may find ourselves 5 or 10 years out seeing China adding "cheap electricity" to its' global competitive advantages.

And finally, China has the largest potential new local market for products and services. Companies go to China both for development and also to expand sales into the local market. In India, most companies go primarily for outsourcing, there is some incremental market potential, but nowhere as large a population as China.

Although the median income is still low in both countries, by sheer numbers the new emerging workingclass/middleclass in China is much larger.

It's not a surprise (anymore) that the biggest growth in cellphone new users is China and a lot of the new innovative services (text messaging, multimedia, etc.) have started first in Asia/China telecom.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobcares
You are a Chinese hence you may prefer China. And that may the only point as to why I may suggest China to you for software development and services.

I strongly recommend India. In terms of infrastructure India and China are almost at par. There is not much of a difference to talk about.

If I were to get into manufacturing I would go only to China. But when it comes to Software development and services India is the Number 1 choice. That is the reason companies like Microsoft , Google, Oracle, Yahoo, Sun .... have such huge bases here.

India is quite friendly with the foreigners too. There are companies like Korean Companies like Samsung and Hyundai which do over a billion dollars worth of Business in India.

Let me give some figures which CEO of top companies promised in the last 2-3 weeks in India.
Microsoft - 1.6 billion
Intel - 1 billion
AMD - 3 billion

I was seeing an interview of Bill Gates on TV recently (He had come to India for small trip). He was saying that the University system and quality is similar to what they get in the US.. And that is the reason why MS prefers India as the most important country after the US. He said China has a lot of work in that area.

When I was in the US a couple of months back I had met customer of mine who is mainly into embedded system. He has 2 offices in India in Delhi and Chennai. He said it has been a great experience working with his Indian team. He has about 150 people in these offices.

India is a lovely country with a great history and lovely future and the present is as bright as any other country in the world


I hope I was of some help.


Regards
Amar

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  #15  
Old 01-06-2006, 02:31 AM
sangeetha sangeetha is offline
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Some Indian cities have congestion problems like Bombay and now Bangalore. Then again, isn't New York congested. Why discount the whole country for the sake of a few cities.

We live in Cochin, a smaller city in the south west coast of India. Its the Internet hub of India(the bandwidth arrives via sea cables here). We have our own Facility, but for Newcomers, Cochin has the Infopark here , where a business can simply come and plugin computers on already built up space/infrastructure. We have wide roads and less traffic(at least in Kakkanad, the outer suburb where the Infopark is situated). The climate is like Florida, no harsh summer and winter, but humid.

We also have beaches

China is known for manufacturing and India is known for services. If you're looking for outsourcing, India is the destination. As for the $200 salary, maybe you're talking about several years ago. Now, the salaries have risen. A 3-4 year experienced engineer will be close to $1000. Starting salaries are close to $500 .

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