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  1. #1

    Arrow How do you feel about New Hosting Companies?

    The title pretty much sums up the question.
    We are seeing more and more new hosting companies pop up. Some people will not even give them a chance. Why is this?
    Is being the new company a bad thing? Everyone had to start some place, is what I think. I recently signed up with a smaller (new) hosting company is why I ask. Everything went smooth as silk from beginning to end. Everything was professional from the sign up process to the site move. Did I do a bad thing by trying out the small company? This is not a review I am simply asking the question, I will however be giving a review in a few weeks of my new host.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by RaceJunkie
    . . . Did I do a bad thing by trying out the small company?
    Not according to your experience with them.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by RaceJunkie
    The title pretty much sums up the question.
    We are seeing more and more new hosting companies pop up. Some people will not even give them a chance. Why is this?
    Is being the new company a bad thing? Everyone had to start some place, is what I think. I recently signed up with a smaller (new) hosting company is why I ask. Everything went smooth as silk from beginning to end. Everything was professional from the sign up process to the site move. Did I do a bad thing by trying out the small company? This is not a review I am simply asking the question, I will however be giving a review in a few weeks of my new host.
    I personally don't know of any new companies so this isn't directed at anyone in particular however I will say this: I've been a lurker on these boards for better than 3 years and only recently have I thought to actually register and contribute. In that three years I've lost count of how many companies have come and gone only to pop up again and then disappoint and disappear again. As human, we take comfort in stability. Change, while often good, makes people nervous. In the business world, change can indicate instability. And therein lies your problem.

    I think too many of us see someone completely unprepared come on here and ask, "hey, how do I host a server? Do I have to know Linux at all?" and collectively, a majority of us shake our heads. And while I grant you that more than 50% of the complaints on these forums are from spoiled individuals who don't get their way and just want something to bitch about and think everyone here will listen, there are quite a few complaints that are legit and is disappointing that people who offer a service think so low of their service as to not care for the customer. As a result, the cream rises to the top, the crap gets flushed down the toilet that is the internet, and for newcomers the barriers to entry are momunental.

    This is a cut-throat business. I don't think anyone here will deny it. Someone will ALWAYS have lower prices than you, better service than you, better equipment than you, etc etc etc. You have to compete with that. If you're a newcomer, that means maybe eating a loss up front until you have an established user base. Who really has the discipline to hold on to their virtual company long enough to see the dream through?

    Anyways, that's my $0.02. I think a lot of people have a lot to offer but business is business. That's why you have the IBMs, the Ciscos, the Microsofts, the HPs, the Citibanks, the JPMCs, the Conocos and the BP Amacos of the world. They were/are successful, people got used to them, they got their names out and now we rely on them and are comfortable with them because they've always been there and they aren't going anywhere. Over-simplifying? yeah probably but it gets my point across.


  4. #4
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    Good post, CiscoMike!

    I could very well try some new host, but the risks to me should be minimal. So no hosting any important sites unless I have a reason to trust them.

    And I should have some kind of motive to try them out in the first place. Like knowing the guys running the company or getting a really good deal. The latter may not even help, because everyone else is adding features and overselling to the point that cheaper would be close to $0. With all the bells and whistles.

    Barrier to entry, indeed.

  5. #5
    Nice to read that post Ciscomike.

    You are right the change in business especially in computer and internet business is not welcomed. We better not mix change wiht development.
    Once an impression is made on customers then very big companies like google. Yahoo and msn etc find it hard to change.

    Like Microsoft what ever they do have a mark of windows on their back
    Goggle is a serch engine with boring white first page which is same as the las page.
    But I want to make another point here many big companies will be ever happy in their comfort zone if small companies and individuals dont puvh tem.
    Many big things going on on internet and computer these days were created by small companies and individuals from which many of them are done and dusted now

  6. #6
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    So let's turn this around. My first post talked about basic human emotion and just the way things have ALWAYS been when it comes to business. If you look at the flip side of that, w/o people willing to take risks or stick their necks out, we wouldn't have things like Apache, Linux or MySQL (just stick with technology for now) or companies like Juniper, Red Hat or "Bob's Internet Mart" to make a stand against the establishment and provide an alternative to those who feel disenfranchised or mistreated.

    There are lots of individuals with good intentions but good intentions != good results. For every 10 new web hosting startups, maybe 1 will actually pan out. That's just the brutal truth of the situation. When you look at this particular industry, you have some many variables and such high demands that it's nearly impossible to be succesful. Again, you have the high cost of entry. Second, you have very unreasonable customers who expect you to do everything but wipe their rear ends for them. Anybody can do a search on these forums and find some pretty unreasonable individuals and those who failed at reading comprehension and claim fraud/abuse despite the terms being clearly spelled out in the TOS or contract (in my case I fail at spelling but that's another story...).

    There are some good times to "take a chance" on a new company. Let's say that someone has been a long contributor here, has a solid history of being helpful, who clearly has an understanding of the business and the customer base and wants to start a company finally. That might be a good risk to take. But if your a-typical user comes here and says, "Hay guyz, I want to runs me a server, what do I do?" then you clearly want to avoid that crowd and unfortunately, that's a large part of the market. Just like in the brick and mortar world where less than 20% of all businesses are considered "enterprise" (i.e. you big name companies) and almost 80% are in the SMB category, the same holds true here. You have your LTs, EV1, Rackspace, Planet and so on which are larger named companies doing established business. Then you have a smattering of one-man shops that have almost zero difference from one another. As a consumer, it becomes very hard to move away from "the establishment" and try the road less travelled.

    So anyways, another mindless drivel-filled post by me. Point is, it's very hard from both sides of the coin. As a customer, I would want something a bit more tailored to my needs, someone who is responsive and takes customer service to heart. On the owner's side, they want to stay with something that is safe, tried and true. The problem is, neither one will stand out and the rich get richer while everyone else just fades to black.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by CiscoMike
    . . . When you look at this particular industry, you have some many variables and such high demands that it's nearly impossible to be succesful.
    It is difficult to create success (define success as you will) in the hosting business, but not impossible. I'm a glass_half_full kinda bloke, and already have one successsful hosting brand under my belt.
    Again, you have the high cost of entry.
    I couldn't agree with that. With web hosting you generally have a very low cost of entry, if you work it right. We're not talking about starting out with your own datacenter here, or not with a $25/mth reseller account either. Those are the two ends of the spectrum. You can get started in this business for under $25k, and be nicely setup indeed. Baby steps.
    Second, you have very unreasonable customers who expect you to do everything but wipe their rear ends for them.
    Although occassionally those types of customers come along, from my experience, they've been few and far between. Maybe I've just been damn lucky?
    . . . Just like in the brick and mortar world where less than 20% of all businesses are considered "enterprise" (i.e. you big name companies) and almost 80% are in the SMB category, the same holds true here.
    Yep, and I'll gladly take a spot in the 80%. Small fish are sweet.
    You have your LTs, EV1, Rackspace, Planet and so on which are larger named companies doing established business. Then you have a smattering of one-man shops that have almost zero difference from one another. As a consumer, it becomes very hard to move away from "the establishment" and try the road less travelled.
    Yet some smaller operators don't seem to struggle finding and maintaining a client base. They (myself included here) may not be looking to an IPO as the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow, but are running cashflow positive business models, delivering personalised value to our client bases.
    So anyways, another mindless drivel-filled post by me.
    Great post though. Wish there was more like it on WHT these days.
    . . . As a customer, I would want something a bit more tailored to my needs, someone who is responsive and takes customer service to heart.
    Then a smaller operator would probably fill that need over an industry giant.
    . . . On the owner's side, they want to stay with something that is safe, tried and true. The problem is, neither one will stand out and the rich get richer while everyone else just fades to black.
    And then you have those smaller hosts just cruising along, not neccessarily with the intention of becoming millionaires, but who love what they do, and make a nice living doing it.
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  8. #8
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    Why would anyone go with a new host? Especially in an industry where a new host may be overselling a reseller account from an overselling budget host.

    It seems to me that most new hosts get around this by misleading potential customers - that they have been around for longer, that they are bigger etc than they are. By racking up lots of useless posts here so that they look established.

    Dotable makes it clear that it is backed by experience and sufficient capital & describes its facilities (though not all hosts descriptions are honest & it is not easy for a new customer to tell the difference). And Dotable is aimed at a particular market.

    I'd have no difficulty in going with Dotable, but I would not touch most new hosts with a bargepole - at least until they were no longer new & I knew enough about them to trust them.

    I think that most new hosts need a USP (unique selling point) to do well and make people think it is worth going with them rather than the opposition. Google had that at the time, so did Microsoft, and Amazon etc. Enthusiasm and individual expertise with a server will probably not be enough for more than a few years (enthusiasm wanes, any individual can get overloaded and what then?; growing and running a business is a different set of skills).

    But it seems to me that most new hosts try to blag their way through, they manage to get business like that and some will turn out to be OK. I wouldn't risk being one of their customers though.

  9. #9
    Why would anyone go with a new host? Especially in an industry where a new host may be overselling a reseller account from an overselling budget host.
    One may go with a new host because they may have a unique service that a current or other host doesn't provide. They may go with a new host because it's new, sometimes it's time for change, new is not necessarily bad.
    It seems to me that most new hosts get around this by misleading potential customers - that they have been around for longer, that they are bigger etc than they are. By racking up lots of useless posts here so that they look established.
    I wouldn't say most, I've seen some hosts do this however, posting on a forum does not indicate anything, hits to your website from a forum may be very small. As for hosts who say they've been around longer than they actually have, thats easy for one to check if the company is based in the states and can be checked by going to http://dos.state.{2 LETTER STATE}.us/

    My personal take on "new hosting companies" is this: Established hosts need a run for their money, if a new host is serious, has staff, and has the rescources to make it in the business, then they should be worth a try.

    Unfortunately some new hosting companies are exactly what Dormouse said, liars. This is one reason that the "new kids on the blook" have a bad name regardless, because it is usually inferred that they are not as good as some of the other hosting companies.
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  10. #10
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    Thumbs up

    A lot of good points. Especially since I am currently on "both sides of the fence".
    Everybody was new once. The liars and extreme overselling types are always popping up with huge plans on reseller accounts.
    We are now getting far enough down the road it depends on your definition of "new" if we are new anymore with our core business, BUT rather than confuse things I just started a "new" venture as an experiment (and a way for us to prepare) offering what may turn out to be a less stable but with the "latest of everything" (except not Apache 2.0 yet, enough at one time already) offering.
    So we are an older host but a brand new host if you want all the latest PHP MySQL etc. versions and perhaps less support or stability (although we don't predict it, we are not as familiar with all the new stuff because it is just that...the newest stuff). So we are "testing the waters" but decided to do so under a different name so if things don't go as well as we hope the original name won't be "tarnished".

    This is an exceptionally good thread though with some well thought out points on both sides. You may get some confidence from a long-time company but you may get a "trying harder" attitude from a newer one.
    My comparison would be Wal-Mart, they have been around a long while and are the nation's largest retailer BUT try to find a clerk when you need one or even dare to ask something out of the ordinary and everything grinds to a halt quickly. I'll quit now...I'm too old and I'll start reminiscing about when they pumped your gas and checked you oil & tires every time and when every clerk in a store could tell you where almost anything was and didn't have to call for someone with a scanner to find out the price (and the items were sometimes even made in the USA)
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  11. #11
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    My own two cents:

    As a web hosting consumer -- I personally would not trust a new company with my data. I'd prefer to have waited until they've proven themselves to be reliable and very proactive in their monitoring, issue resolution and other daily management activities.

    I don't fear new companies: but with something as important as e-mail and my data hosting: I'd just rather have a proven company handling it!

    And then the other side of the coin..

    As a new company (although not new to the industry -- just a new name!) with new offerings on the market: I would hope that consumers would give us (or any new company) the chance to show them what we're worth.

    I'd still ensure that any clients who considered signing up would second-guess us or any new company: As long as they do their research though I'm sure they'll do just fine with the decision making though.

    Research, Research, Research
    Even if there is no data on a new company - that doesn't mean the owners, employees and other folks involved don't have a track record of some sort. Although I'd be very wary of signing up with anyone who a week earlier was asking "How do I do..." "How do I start a webhost...", etc.

    With any new company - no matter what industry: there is a very high potential for it NOT to exist in a year.

    That's a scary fact of life but those who put effort into it and use their heads will perservere.
    Last edited by David; 12-31-2005 at 12:25 PM.

  12. #12
    I couldn't agree more with what you said.
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by f9-Gene
    new is not necessarily bad.
    This is right, and old is not necessarily good. The advantage of the old is that you can check fairly easily to see how good or bad they are likely to be.

  14. #14
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    As a web hosting consumer I'm afraid I am conservative enough to be leery of new hosting companies with little or no track record. As well said by CiscoMike, there is a rather high probability that a new company is not going to last long on the market. So, why should I risk going with them? Maybe if I have some inside information on the owner etc. - but otherwise no.
    Just my 2 cents....
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  15. #15
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    When I had to choose between a host for my site, I chose ASO over fuse9 partly because of ASO being an “old” company. I’m sure fuse9 is just fine, but I couldn’t take the risk, as we’re actually three guys adminstering the site. If it would have gone bad, I would have to take the responsibility for that, so I chose the safe route for us. If it was a site just for me, I would have had less problems choosing fuse9 over ASO. But I must also say that ASO’s site is much better looking :p

    So, basically it’s down to what feels comfortable risking.

  16. #16
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    Just remember that as a webhosting consumer you can make the process of choosing a company entirely riskfree: even with a new company.

    It's simple:

    1. Choose an external registrar -- and set your registrant contact to a 3rd party e-mail address.

    2. Don't signup yearly or for a prolonged period: It might be more of a hassle for billing but in the end you won't lose anything.

    3. Backup your data - and often!

    With the above 3 steps taken care of: You have nothing to worry about even when signing up for a new or old host. While an older host may have a proven track record: look at some of the latest MASSIVE fiascos here on WHT.

    Dinix - great provider prior to being bought out. Downhill instantly.
    Affordablehost - great provider prior to being bought out. Downhill instantly.

    Many people lost their data with the above two or were down for days on end. Entirely unacceptable but it shows that even great companies can go bad (or get bought out).

    Just be wary with anyone you're signing up: Choose a shorter plan and make sure you follow the above 3 steps and you'll be fine.

    A quick DNS change won't lose many visitors -- but losing all of your data or having your domain hijacked could pose some problems.

    New or old: There's always risks.
    That's what WHT is for -- research.

  17. #17

    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by Dormouse
    Why would anyone go with a new host? Especially in an industry where a new host may be overselling a reseller account from an overselling budget host.
    Well for me it's was not just wanting to move I was having problems with my current host and decided it was needed. I would agree on the reseller point. I would not want to be hosted with someone who is just reselling. Not that I think there is anything wrong with this. It's just my preference.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dormouse
    I'd have no difficulty in going with Dotable, but I would not touch most new hosts with a bargepole - at least until they were no longer new & I knew enough about them to trust them.
    When is a new host considered not new, 1 maybe 2 years?

    I can see your point as with most busineses the 1st year is the hardest.

    Quote Originally Posted by CiscoMike
    I would want something a bit more tailored to my needs, someone who is responsive and takes customer service to heart. On the owner's side, they want to stay with something that is safe, tried and true. The problem is, neither one will stand out and the rich get richer while everyone else just fades to black.
    This was the biggest selling point for me. "Customer Support." The support was and is very impressive, both online help and ticket times.

    Quote Originally Posted by David
    Just remember that as a webhosting consumer you can make the process of choosing a company entirely riskfree: even with a new company.

    It's simple:

    1. Choose an external registrar -- and set your registrant contact to a 3rd party e-mail address.
    I am and always will use an external registrar, very good point.

    Quote Originally Posted by David
    2. Don't signup yearly or for a prolonged period: It might be more of a hassle for billing but in the end you won't lose anything.
    I agree I made this mistake once and I have since went to the month to month plans.

    Quote Originally Posted by David
    3. Backup your data - and often!

    With the above 3 steps taken care of: You have nothing to worry about even when signing up for a new or old host. While an older host may have a proven track record: look at some of the latest MASSIVE fiascos here on WHT.
    Some very good points David. I do keep off line back ups of my data, no more than a week old, for complete site and nightly of my db.


    I want to thank everyone for their replys here. I know we have our mixed feelings with new and old hosts. I must say i do feel a bit better about my decision now. I feel like I have made the right choice and, I do feel comfortable with my data being with them. I run my site and 4 others so after I give them a test run with my site, I will consider moving over the rest.

  18. #18
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    RaceJunkie,

    Seems you have everything under control.
    You'll do just fine -- even if the host doesn't exist tomorrow.

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    Sorry if someone talked about this already...

    The first year may be a bit hard because no-one (outside your sircle of friends) trusts you yet. But after you've had some success, things do not necessarily get easier. They are just difficult in entirely new ways.

    I've been hosting a site (or a subdomain/part of a site) on Finnish host that was essentially an one man operation. He had three servers from US. At first everyting was great; I remember getting email replies in literally couple of minutes. He got the word out as he was cutting the prices and providing pretty good service. Over the time the email support got slower and slower. I think the guy had no courage to hire more employees. At some point the company got bought out (or they had some other arrangements). Nowadays, I have no idea what is the status of the company. I know that they have a website.

    At first, you gotta find your inner businessman/customer service rep/salesman. In order to grow the busines and manage that grow, you need to hire good people to do the job. Just administering those boxes is not enough.

  20. #20
    Well I have been on little hosting companies and there support is normally great unlike some big companies i.e. 1and1, but this is because they have a lot of staff with not so many customers and 1and1 have too many customers for there support. Also the more customers the little companies get, the better. As they upgrade and upgrade until they can't anymore (dedicated) all sites had to start of somewhere.

    1and1 might have started up as a reseller and look where they are now, one of the leading hosting companies world wide!

    I would recommend a smaller company than a bigger one anytime!
    Last edited by bear; 01-01-2006 at 08:47 AM. Reason: sig

  21. #21
    Greetings:

    With over 24,000 providers in just the U.S. -- http://www.webhosting.info/webhosts/globalstats/ --, and a number of the new providers simply competing on price, overselling, what would you expect in terms of already burnt consumers and their trust factor?

    Thank you.
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