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  1. #1

    Costco + ValueWeb = Overselling ??

    Hello WHT Community.

    Just wanted your feedback on the following.
    Stopped by a Costco early today and found a "Web Hosting and Design Tool" brochure on display.

    I was interested to see who Costco had chosen to resell. Frlom the copy, cearly ValueWeb had partnered with Costco to provide this new added service.

    What I was suprised to see was the 50GB for 14.95/month offer.

    Offer Page:
    http://www.valueweb.com/costco/costco_learn.htm

    Content in there "CostConnection" Mag.
    http://www.costcoconnection.com/conn...=web%20hosting
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  2. #2
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    Well it says you need to be an Executive member to get it for $14.95/mo + $10 setup fee and if you're a Business/Gold Star member it cost $17.95/mo + $20 setup fee. To become an Executive member it cost $39.99 and for Business $49.99. So once you factor all those things in it looks rather pricey, agree?
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  3. #3
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    Well, that's really a matter of whether or not you are already an Executive Member or Business Memeber. Such a deal might be good if you already pay for such membership cost for other reasons.

  4. #4
    RIght

    I wouldn't necessarily include the Costco Wholesale member ship into the pricing.
    This offer is for members. This is not an incentive for people to join Coscco. Their wholesale pricing and return policy are.

    50GB for any of those prices is overselling.
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by datums
    50GB for any of those prices is overselling.
    How so? How much do they pay for bandwidth?
    Let me know!

    Oh, and if you can tell me where my cat ran away to.. that would be great.
    Thanks Cleo!

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by David
    How so? How much do they pay for bandwidth?
    Let me know!

    Oh, and if you can tell me where my cat ran away to.. that would be great.
    Thanks Cleo!
    I don't care who you are, 200 gigs of bandwidth is gonna cost something, and 50G space/200G bandwidth for 14.95 is gonna be overselling, now as with all overselling the # of accounts that'll signup and use 1/10th of that will be 1 in few (1 in 1000? 2000?), so you simply cull that 1 and keep the rest and life goes on. For MOST of their customers, (something like 99.9%) 14.95 will be extremely expensive considering what they'll REALLY use.

    Looking at it from one perspective, this isn't overselling, it's too expensive, because for MOST people this plan will cost a lot more than they should be paying for what they'll USE. For most of the folks who'll signup for this plan, they could easily host their site for way less and still have room to spare.

    From the other perspective 50G/200G for 14.95 is gross overselling and borderline scamming.

    Depends on how you look at it I suppose.
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    /me slaps himself across the forehead.
    That's what I get for responding so early in the morning: I read it as 50gigs in transfer.

    50 gigs in space: Sure it might not be 'overselling' but they're going to have one hell of a time trying to safely provide that to users: It's time consuming (not saying it can't be done though).
    David
    Web hosting by Fused For businesses with more important things to do than worry about their hosting.

  8. #8
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    I agree with Gary. It is over-selling. It is ridiculous and irresponsable.
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    Oh good lord. The overselling freaks are out again.

    What's funny is ValueWeb is owned by the deep-pocket lunatics who bought a company I worked for back in '99. They wrote a very large check, came in, took about half of the staff and the company name - Affinity - and proceeded to slowly but surely funnel off all the clients to other hosts they were snapping up. Like ValueWeb and about a dozen others.

    They moved from the few rooms next to an auto repair garage that we worked out of (which was utterly ghetto, but we managed to pull in almost 50,000 accounts between '96 and '99 from that ghetto, because we were that badass, yeah...) to a full floor in a shiny office building in El Segundo with retina scanners and voice recognition to get into the toilet, and hired over 100 people to sit around at desks and look at each other.

    Fast forward a couple of years, everyone is gone from the flash new digs. Everyone. Their brands have dwindled, the original companies we sold to them, Affinity and HostSave are in rapid decline (if hosted domain numbers are any indication) - so really, I'm not surprised that they are pimping their crap at costco. It's par for the course with these geniuses.

    I'm sure a lot of companies pissed away a lot more money in more absurd ways, but I didn't get a first hand look at any of them, so all you get is this lousy story.
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    I always love hearing the "dotbomb" stories....

  11. #11
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    In fairness to the current Affinity, I just looked at their list of executives and board of directors and I didn't see any names from the original sale in '99, so this may be completely different ownership than I was skewering. I would imagine that those original dinks are all working support at ****** now or something...or in one of Dante's other rings of hell...
    datapimp - You only get one soul, ya dig?

  12. #12
    It is ridiculous and destroying the industry. Some companies are really crossing the lines, pathetic.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by WN-Ali
    It is ridiculous and destroying the industry.
    Dante's rings of hell? I agree.
    datapimp - You only get one soul, ya dig?

  14. #14
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    overselling?

    Quote Originally Posted by WN-Ali
    It is ridiculous and destroying the industry. Some companies are really crossing the lines, pathetic.
    I find this thread quite interesting. I wish I had gotten invovled earlier.

    The Costco web hosting deal is just that: a good deal for Costco members.

    Overselling? What is overselling? When you have a shared server with 1TB of diskspace and provision 10 customers with 200GB quotas then, that's overselling. If every customer uses their disk then you've got a problem.

    However when you get to a larger scale and involve load balancers, large SAN's and redundant systems / networks, it tends to even itself out. Would you like to use all of the resources promised to you on Valueweb systems? Go ahead, you're getting a great deal. If you're a Costco customer then you're getting an even greater deal.

    BTW, I've been with Valueweb for over 8 years. Three years ago, we became a part of Affinity. All I can say is that the Affinity mentioned above exists in some aspects but not in the ones alluded to by datapimp... and no, we're not in rapid decline by any means.
    Last edited by arpad9; 05-12-2006 at 03:26 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by arpad9
    and no, we're not in rapid decline by any means.
    and just how exactly would you know if valueweb is in decline? are you an exec of the company? have access to records? theres no way you as a client could tell if a companys customer base is declineing or not
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  16. #16
    This is great for ValueWeb, Costco is huge. Although in my opinion ValueWeb has not been the strongest host of late. From the information I've monitored and if you look at their DailyChanges - ValueWeb may not be ready to handle such a big deal.

    They are one of the better hosting companies when you look at their support (what you should expect from a company charging $14.95), but if Costco pushed their hosting services 100%; would ValueWeb be able to support the growing customer base?
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    Just for the record. Some hosts have good deals. But alot are very hard to find. This is why most have catches.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnathans
    and just how exactly would you know if valueweb is in decline? are you an exec of the company? have access to records? theres no way you as a client could tell if a companys customer base is declineing or not
    arpad appears to be an employee/exec of ValueWeb (based on his sig).

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by SEOKing
    This is great for ValueWeb, Costco is huge. Although in my opinion ValueWeb has not been the strongest host of late. From the information I've monitored and if you look at their DailyChanges - ValueWeb may not be ready to handle such a big deal.

    They are one of the better hosting companies when you look at their support (what you should expect from a company charging $14.95), but if Costco pushed their hosting services 100%; would ValueWeb be able to support the growing customer base?
    Uhh... this isn't new news. Costco has had the ValueWeb deal for at least 2, maybe 3 years.

  20. #20
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    just another company offering hosting, whats the big deal?
    if you haven't considered chapter 7 bankruptcy, maybe you should.
    eliminate your debt, keep the property you want, most people qualify.
    contrary to popular belief - no attorney is necessary!

  21. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Lauren Stephens
    just another company offering hosting, whats the big deal?
    I agree... just another big player with their huge promotion...nothing speacial.
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  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnathans
    and just how exactly would you know if valueweb is in decline? are you an exec of the company? have access to records? theres no way you as a client could tell if a companys customer base is declineing or not
    Right. I'm not a client.

    I am an employee.

    As such I can't / don't want to get into specific mud slinging.

    I'm not here to make any sales pitches (I'm not a sales guy or a "business" guy). I will, though, defend my company by dispelling misconceptions whenever I can.

    Is the hosting business becoming more and more of a bear? You bet. However, Affinity is solid. And we have plans. No surprise there.

    Don't look to us to be the leaders of downward pressure on the market though through unbelievable money losing deals. Others are taking care of that for us. The Coscto deal? In as much as I can elaborate, my advice is that if you can take advantage of it, do it. Thank Costco for their thriftiness in dealing with us. At any rate, Costco is a good company.
    Last edited by arpad9; 05-14-2006 at 10:08 PM.
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  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by arpad9
    BTW, I've been with Valueweb for over 8 years. Three years ago, we became a part of Affinity. All I can say is that the Affinity mentioned above exists in some aspects but not in the ones alluded to by datapimp...
    BTW, I was with affinity nine years ago, so you can thank me now for building the company that ate you.

    The Affinity I mentioned exists everywhere, baby. Probably in your sock drawer and nightmares, along with everywhere else on the internet. It's all the same bag of stinking fish.
    datapimp - You only get one soul, ya dig?

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by datapimp.com
    BTW, I was with affinity nine years ago, so you can thank me now for building the company that ate you.

    The Affinity I mentioned exists everywhere, baby. Probably in your sock drawer and nightmares, along with everywhere else on the internet. It's all the same bag of stinking fish.
    Well you're definitely angry about something... I guess that's what makes you the "anti-host?"

    <personal opinion>
    I understand where you're coming from. Small businesses are sometimes better than large ones and I'm not personally sure there's any need for super-huge conglomerates or mega-corporations at all. From what I understand, the Affinity of your time blew through a lot of money and that makes my life now more difficult than it should be.
    </personal opinion>

    At 260 employees, most of which are downstairs in the (non-outsourced) call center, we're hardly 1&1 or Verio (or Web.com). On the other hand, Hostway is bigger than us and I think they're trying to do good things.

    The company I've been working for started out as Cybergate, Florida's last significant independently owned ISP. Many of us are still here from those days and that attitude persists. Others are here from the Prowebsite (Affinity side) days with similar attitudes.

    I'm sure I'm not going to change your mind (as these things often go) but I'm happy with my company.
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  25. #25

    Overselling

    ValueWeb is overselling a lot with that much of space and that much bandwidth for too low price.

  26. #26
    does valueweb offer multidomain hosting?

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by heehaa
    does valueweb offer multidomain hosting?
    No.

    It's something we've thought about but haven't yet decided on doing. 'Could happen in the future.
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  28. #28
    I've worked for Affinity since 2000 (before we aquired Valueweb) and I've never worked for a better company. We are not in rapid decline by any means. As a matter of fact, we are quite stable. This is one of the many reasons why Costco chose us as their hosting partner. Datapimp is certainly entitled to his opinion, but at the end of the day the Costco offer is just a good hosting/design plan at a promotional price.

    Dan Cartin
    Affinity Internet

  29. #29
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    Hmmm.... then how do you explain this (in re: you working there for 8 years):

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff on YIM
    [12:49] <me>: nice to see another business host on the boards
    [12:49] affinityJeff: i just started over here
    [12:49] <me>: ah
    [12:49] <me>: at ValueWeb?
    [12:50] affinityJeff: affinity....value web and gate.com
    (This quote was logged yesterday - all times Eastern). The YIM name was captured from arpad9's signature from his "introduction" thread in this very forum yesterday (which appears to have been vaporized by the mods).
    Last edited by mripguru; 05-16-2006 at 11:25 AM.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by mripguru
    Hmmm.... then how do you explain this (in re: you working there for 8 years):

    (This quote was logged yesterday - all times Eastern). The YIM name was captured from arpad9's signature from his "introduction" thread in this very forum yesterday (which appears to have been vaporized by the mods).
    I don't understand. I don't think it was captured from my signature. I am not "affinityJeff." I didn't place anything in my sig re: my YIM.

    Why would I lie? That's just silly.
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  31. #31
    You're referring to Dave Geller - he's been with Valueweb for 8 years. I've been with Affinity for 6.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Cartin
    You're referring to Dave Geller - he's been with Valueweb for 8 years. I've been with Affinity for 6.
    Well, I snipped that YIM name from someone's sig yesterday that made an introduction thread at about this time yesterday that said they worked for ValueWeb/Gate.com/etc. In any event, sorry about the mis-identification (and mis-posting). My mistake.

    Thanks, and again. Sorry.

    Edit: http://www.webhostingtalk.com/member.php?u=146778 (AffinityJeff). This is who I was thinking of. My mistake. Sorry.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by mripguru
    Well, I snipped that YIM name from someone's sig yesterday that made an introduction thread at about this time yesterday that said they worked for ValueWeb/Gate.com/etc. In any event, sorry about the mis-identification (and mis-posting). My mistake.

    Thanks, and again. Sorry.

    Edit: http://www.webhostingtalk.com/member.php?u=146778 (AffinityJeff). This is who I was thinking of. My mistake. Sorry.
    No harm. Thanks for following up.
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  34. #34
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    This is nothing worth even mentioning compared to what godaddy's packages offer:

    • 100 GB Space • 1,000 GB Transfer 14.99/mo.

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    Quote Originally Posted by arpad9
    Well you're definitely angry about something... I guess that's what makes you the "anti-host?"
    No sir. What makes us the anti-host is that we're the opposite of you and yours. "Anti" and "opposite" are what we call synonyms. That means different words for the same thing.

    As for being angry, I don't blame you for saying that. They probably don't use colorful, descriptive language where you're from. That's okay, don't feel bad. The world needs bland corporate types too. For balance, you know. Someone has to buy all those Polo shirts that they make over in those sweatshops up the street from the IPowerweb and ATT call center in Southeast Asia.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Cartin
    Datapimp is certainly entitled to his opinion...
    When someone says that they almost always mean that you're not entitled to your opinion. That you're wrong or foolish or uninformed. There's a smug sense of superiority and condescension behind that, but I still love you anyway.

    Just thought I'd put that out there.

    Listen, how the hell can you guys can say that HostSave isn't in decline when Affinity has completely dropped the brand? The domain redirects to gate.com. You don't kill a healthy brand. Period.

    I love Affinity and all the other cookie cutter, WalMart hosting joints out there. datapimp wouldn't exist without you, so keep up the good work. We love everyone, I don't know why you guys are so aggro.
    datapimp - You only get one soul, ya dig?

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by datapimp.com
    No sir. What makes us the anti-host is that we're the opposite of you and yours. "Anti" and "opposite" are what we call synonyms. That means different words for the same thing.

    As for being angry, I don't blame you for saying that. They probably don't use colorful, descriptive language where you're from. That's okay, don't feel bad. The world needs bland corporate types too. For balance, you know. Someone has to buy all those Polo shirts that they make over in those sweatshops up the street from the IPowerweb and ATT call center in Southeast Asia.
    There was a time when I enjoyed a good flame war as much as the next person but those days are gone. I don't know you. You have an interesting site and I like what you're doing. Nothing wrong with it.

    I don't think I work in a stinking bag of fish though. I like where I work. I think, on many levels, you have Affinity (and probably me) wrong.

    Hostsave became Gate. The decision is one that Product Managers like to make when they want to do something different. In fact, there's more difference than that, we upgraded the entire platform onto our more modern architecture and released a new Windows platform. We wouldn't let them just do a cosmetic change to rebrand.

    Please don't compare us to Wal-mart. That's really below the belt and far from accurate. If you'd like to learn more about us then next time you're in Florida, I'll give you a tour. Who knows, you might even still know people here?
    Last edited by arpad9; 05-18-2006 at 02:38 PM.
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  37. #37
    So once you factor all those things in it looks rather pricey, agree?
    No, thats dirt cheap, however, as with every too good to be true offering, there is a catch... (read below)

    # 50 GB Disc Space
    # 200 GB Data Transfer
    Hi David, For the record, I hardly know anything about your company and dont have any inclination eitherway if you are a good/bad company or what quality of service you are offering. I am just speaking to this particular affinity program and the advertised pricing...

    Quote Originally Posted by arpad9
    However when you get to a larger scale and involve load balancers, large SAN's and redundant systems / networks, it tends to even itself out. Would you like to use all of the resources promised to you on Valueweb systems? Go ahead, you're getting a great deal. If you're a Costco customer then you're getting an even greater deal.
    All the load balancers, clustered environments and technology from space wouldn't help you if your customers were hosting large applications instead of static sites on this package. Your cluster would crumble like so many others who have tried to sell massive plans like that.

    However, unlike others who have items like unlimited mysql, no mysql allocation limitations outside of the plan, script installers, etc - you have taken a slightly different (and certainly more practical) approach:

    ADVANCED FEATURES

    * MySQL - 20MB
    I certainly believe you when you say your users are permitted to utilize everything they have purchased - as essentially, all you allow is static pages and email (or very very small applications)

    Eitherway, I think you have taken unwarranted heat in this thread. Although I dont see the logic of your pricing model, nor do I see the need to try and compete on price (when frankly, no one needs 50 GB disk space in a shared environment, etc) - I do not see anything wrong with your offering and I absolutely believe that users would get to utilize all of their resources if required. However, with the proliferation of applications in business and application hosting, I do not believe this package would be overly useful to many customers moving forward.

    May I ask how much you charge for an increase in mysql quota limit? Is this plan even available with a larger allocation to mysql, or do you have different plans for DB intensive customers? or must they move to a dedicated server? Whats your price points for application hosting packages or dedicated servers?

    Anyway, thanks for piping in on this thread and congratulations on this affinity program. Certainly a good customer to close and I am certain you guys have done well with it (as you should !!)

    Andrew

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by arpad9
    There was a time when I enjoyed a good flame war as much as the next person but those days are gone.
    "flame war"? You can't seem to tell the difference between colorful exuberance laced with tangy sarcasm and garden variety insults. If I were really insulting you, you'd know it. There would be no gray area.

    Hostsave became Gate. The decision is one that Product Managers like to make when they want to do something different.
    So let me get this straight - "Product Managers" just kill successful brands so they'll have something to do? If that's the case, the "Product Managers" at IBM, Microsoft, FedEx, WalMart, etc. aren't doing their jobs.

    You don't know what you're talking about. I'll say this again, because you must have missed it the first time;

    You don't kill a healthy brand. Period.

    That is not my opinion, it's a fact. If I'm incorrect, show me an example of a successful company that was purposely erased overnight and replaced with something completely different.

    next time you're in Florida, I'll give you a tour.
    Ooooh, I would LOVE to see your cubicles and server racks! Do you have expensive chairs and a snack room?! A tour of what?

    And who in their right mind would intentionally go to Florida? If I'm ever there it'll be because I'm up on charges for something, so I won't have time for a visit.
    datapimp - You only get one soul, ya dig?

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by datapimp.com
    Ooooh, I would LOVE to see your cubicles and server racks! Do you have expensive chairs and a snack room?! A tour of what?
    First, let me apologize to all for replying to this. This thread has moved beyond constructive discource about the topic.

    I just want to make one point.

    Affinity is not a good place to work because of the cubicles and snack room... certainly not because of the somewhat aging garden variety chairs. Affinity is a good place to work because of the people. Many, many of us who have been here for well over 5 years. That, in my mind, is what would be the centerpiece of a tour with the intent of attempting to temper your somewhat myopic perception of "datapimp against the world of corporate automatons."
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  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by arpad9
    "datapimp against the world of corporate automatons."
    First, I would like to apologize to all for replying to this. Secondly, I would like to repeat that we love corporate automatons. L - U - V! Keep automaton-ing. We rely on you.
    datapimp - You only get one soul, ya dig?

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