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12-09-2005, 12:46 PM #1Web Hosting Guru
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Web designers....which one you belong to?
I saw this on another forum so I thought it would be fun to do it at WHT
How much do you know about HTML?
After some reading there's this list of "generations" of web designers
a) Old School Style, those who learned html in the hard way, by using notepad and all the code is done there, even now notepad is their favorite editor for coding.
b) WYSIWUG School Style, Dreamweaver & Front page Lovers!, those who think that adding a bold style means to click on the B bold button, and that also suffer when they have to add an external Javascript.
c) W3C School Style, they preach w3c standarts everyday, they have as default webpage the W3C Validator.
so..which one you feel related to?
I have a little bit of all, started as WYSIWUG then I moved on to W3C style and added some of the old school style, i'm actually using notepad and validate all my coding on w3c
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12-09-2005, 01:35 PM #2Web Developer
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I use a nice text editor (emeditor.com) and code to standards, but I don't really like w3c.
So where do I fit in?
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12-09-2005, 02:05 PM #3
WYSIWUG?
WYSIWYG
What You See Is What You Get.
I use DW, but tweak it quite a bit. Mostly I use CSS now for layout where possible, and DW is not the best for that. I go back and forth between TopStyle and Note Tab Pro.Your one stop shop for decentralization
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12-09-2005, 02:08 PM #4Retired Moderator
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WYSIWYG = What You See Is What You-and-only-you Get
A and C
Dreamweaver's ok in code view, but I prefer Homesite to it still.Studio1337___̴ı̴̴̡̡̡ ̡͌l̡̡̡ ̡͌l̡*̡̡ ̴̡ı̴̴̡ ̡̡͡|̲̲̲͡͡͡ ̲▫̲͡ ̲̲̲͡͡π̲̲͡͡ ̲̲͡▫̲̲͡͡ ̲|̡̡̡ ̡ ̴̡ı̴̡̡ ̡͌l̡̡̡̡.__Web Design
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12-09-2005, 02:23 PM #5Web Hosting Evangelist
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I use dreamweaver because it is quick and is easy on the carpal-tunnel. But I am a die-hard 'C' because I MUST adhere to standards. I hate running my pages through validators and seeing red errors. I hand code a lot, but DW8 is so beautiful that it really is a gem.
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12-09-2005, 02:40 PM #6Web Hosting Master
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I'm pretty much with WYSIWYG and Old School.
I use Dreamweaver primarly which is a powerful application, but it's good to actually know some HTML to fix anonying problems that Dreamweaver can create...RACK911 Labs | Penetration Testing | https://www.RACK911Labs.ca
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12-09-2005, 03:13 PM #7Web Hosting Guru
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okey..I had a grammar mistake, thanks for remind me in that peculiar way lol.. I can't edit the first post tho
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12-09-2005, 03:23 PM #8WHT Addict
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I hope no one uses a WYSIWYG to design/develop in the professional industry. DW is alright in code view. I use BBEDIT
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12-09-2005, 03:25 PM #9
It's used by pros all over the world. Of the WYSIWYG editors, it's one of the best...but not perfect, that's for certain.
Your one stop shop for decentralization
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12-09-2005, 03:29 PM #10Web Hosting Evangelist
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Cheeto... I would hope all pro designers would use DW. I would not hire a designer on my staff who was not proficient in DW, strictly for reasons of efficiency. Hand coding sites is okay, but your time is better spent doing other things. You don't have to accept whatever code is created for you in WYSIWYG, as you should always skim through and hand-edit any particular coding faults that occur. But WYSIWYG has come so far as of recent that the old stereotyping of these applications is non-sensical.
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12-09-2005, 03:37 PM #11Retired Moderator
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Originally Posted by seodevhead
The biggest issue is speed. It takes time, but I've found hand coding to be much faster than WYSIWYG editing, simply because done properly, you'll end up producing less code, and your only limitation then is typing speed. I'm simply not a fan of purchasing software that does a worse job than me, that I then have to clean up after. It just doesn't make sense.
I've seen many job descriptions where either WYSIWYG developers or hand coders could apply. I've also seen many where they say WYSIWYG developers need not apply. But I've never seen someone excluded from a job with hand coding skills...Studio1337___̴ı̴̴̡̡̡ ̡͌l̡̡̡ ̡͌l̡*̡̡ ̴̡ı̴̴̡ ̡̡͡|̲̲̲͡͡͡ ̲▫̲͡ ̲̲̲͡͡π̲̲͡͡ ̲̲͡▫̲̲͡͡ ̲|̡̡̡ ̡ ̴̡ı̴̡̡ ̡͌l̡̡̡̡.__Web Design
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12-09-2005, 03:51 PM #12WHT Addict
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This is a delayed response to SEOdevheads message:
Seodevhead – I will agree that people should be proficient with DW, but not all work places have that as their standard editor. It is a must that a person should know how to hand code a full site if they are going to be in the industry. WYSIWYGS have come far, but I feel that I don’t have much control over my code when using them. Also if you are proficient with coding it shouldn’t take a long time for you to layout a page, I think it is quicker to hand code over a WYSIWYG. I don’t like all the extra code that is added when using a WSYIWYG either.
The_pm – good points.
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12-09-2005, 05:18 PM #13Web Hosting Evangelist
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Cheeto/the_pm... i may be wrong, you both make good points. If you can type code faster than you can work with DW, then by all means, CODE!!! I like dreamweaver for the abilities to quickly hyperlink, add images, simple stuff like that.. I use all the keyboard shortcuts, which really speed things up like using shortcuts in Photoshop. Like you said Pm, there are still flaws with progs like DW, but if you generally create simplistic styled webpages without all the bells & whistles, the new DW8 does surprising well as far as code cleanliness. I think there is an art in and of itself in using DW... to getting the code you want. But like you said, why bother if hand coding is fast enough. I apologize for my ill-conceived statments. Good points.
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12-09-2005, 11:43 PM #14Web Hosting Master
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Old skool way as you would call it and I LOVE tables I tried to get use to DW but found working with it pretty irritating. I'd rather copy and paste in Textpad.
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12-10-2005, 01:38 AM #15Junior Guru Wannabe
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I'm a mix of b and c. I started out in Dreamweaver, but have become more standards aware over the years.
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12-10-2005, 06:52 AM #16WHT Addict
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B and C for sure! I self-taught HTML years ago, then at College I learned CSS (the wrong way...). Finally, I'm switching to XHTML, always sticking to web standards.
Michele Bugliaro Goggia, designer SUP in visual communication
webmaster: www.ufopsi.com
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12-10-2005, 11:00 AM #17Junior Guru Wannabe
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I am option C.
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12-10-2005, 11:12 AM #18Junior Guru Wannabe
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a bunch of B, and increasing amount of A, and a good bit of C
I started several years ago sort of hobby/interest like with basic editors, then left it all behind, then started up again a few years ago and started a business. I started then with DW.
As I've progressed and my sites have become more complex (I develop nearly exclusively XHTML/CSS/table-less) I've used less of the WYS features and have been writing more code in code view and previewing in multiple browsers. Actually, most of my sites now just don't render correctly in design view.
At the end of the day, it comes down to whatever gets the job done with the most value for the client and yourself.SEO Focused Web Design - Identity Developments - it's not about websites, it's about your identity.
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12-10-2005, 12:31 PM #19Web Hosting Master
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I prefer DW8 in codeview. It's colorcoding is just unbeatable.
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12-10-2005, 04:17 PM #20Newbie
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I guess i'm A and B.
I use dreamweaver (to hand code). I agree, the colouring is so much easier ^^
But yes, I can create an external javascript by hand coding
Ed
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12-10-2005, 04:26 PM #21Web Hosting Guru
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quite interesting the replys here, gives me idea about the different ways a designer works
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12-10-2005, 05:33 PM #22Web Hosting Master
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DW doesnt deserve to be in same category than Frontpage. Frontpage is like word, DW is actually good.
DW and W3C group for me (even if I can design in notepad alone).
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12-10-2005, 06:33 PM #23Web Hosting Guru
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Originally Posted by Alex Fernandez
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12-10-2005, 06:57 PM #24Originally Posted by Draco
Having had to clean up after many a FP site, I can't say I agree at all.Your one stop shop for decentralization
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12-10-2005, 08:30 PM #25Retired Moderator
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Originally Posted by DracoStudio1337___̴ı̴̴̡̡̡ ̡͌l̡̡̡ ̡͌l̡*̡̡ ̴̡ı̴̴̡ ̡̡͡|̲̲̲͡͡͡ ̲▫̲͡ ̲̲̲͡͡π̲̲͡͡ ̲̲͡▫̲̲͡͡ ̲|̡̡̡ ̡ ̴̡ı̴̡̡ ̡͌l̡̡̡̡.__Web Design