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  1. #26
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    Lightbulb Site5 Flashback

    Hi everyone,

    I thought I would chime in with a bit more on the flashback system. I am far from being one of the engineers, so I can't dive too far into the technical aspects of Flashback, but I can share with you a bit more about the system.

    The first point I should make is that Flashback is far from being just hype. The system our Engineering Team has been working on for the past four (or so) months is not intended on merely playing the role of a backup system, nor does it mean Site5 will stop maintaining nightly backups of all of our servers. The Flashback system's main "Time Machine" features are based around simple subversion system which automatically documents and logs all changes made for only the files that are changed. The Flashback versions are stored on what we previously used as backup disks on the server, and we moved all periodic server backups to a centralized location (which, ironically, we have to take extra care to ensure we have backups of in case the primary backup servers go down for some reason). We implemented this solution to make room for Flashback and improve server performance (as the server would be backing up changes, not entire files). Because Flashback finds and saves updated versions of changed files, all the system essentially has to do is save "how to get back to the previous version" (in my general understanding of the technology), so the space used is marginal relative to the size needed to fully backup a file. Also, in the same way that a backup of your files does not count against your disk space quota, Flashback's older versions are maintained separately.

    Flashback has many other convenient features and "wow, that's pretty cool" components, but the main focus (as the name implies) is to allow people to quickly flash back to trustworthy files or versions. Ultimately, we see unlimited potential for Flashback in its continued development... Which will obviously excite us in sharing it with the web hosting community, and we are an excitable bunch (probably due to the lack of sleep )... <<< fluff removed >>>. If you have any specific questions about Flashback, the Site5 Community Forums are a great place to find answers, and if nothing else, I am sure one of the other members of the team can give more of a technical breakdown (without crossing the "We could tell you, but then we'd have to kill you" line) in this WHT thread.

    Thank you for the comments and support for Site5's vision of innovation and creativity... Flashback is just the tip of the iceberg with regard to some of the development plans our Engineering Team has in the works... I may have already said too much...
    Last edited by SoftWareRevue; 12-09-2005 at 12:10 PM.
    Kevin Hazard
    Director, Digital Content
    SoftLayer, an IBM Companyhttp://twitter.com/softlayer

  2. #27
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
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    Quote Originally Posted by Site5-Kevin
    Hi everyone,

    I thought I would chime in with a bit more on the flashback system. I am far from being one of the engineers, so I can't dive too far into the technical aspects of Flashback, but I can share with you a bit more about the system.

    The first point I should make is that Flashback is far from being just hype. The system our Engineering Team has been working on for the past four (or so) months is not intended on merely playing the role of a backup system, nor does it mean Site5 will stop maintaining nightly backups of all of our servers. The Flashback system's main "Time Machine" features are based around simple subversion system which automatically documents and logs all changes made for only the files that are changed. The Flashback versions are stored on what we previously used as backup disks on the server, and we moved all periodic server backups to a centralized location (which, ironically, we have to take extra care to ensure we have backups of in case the primary backup servers go down for some reason). We implemented this solution to make room for Flashback and improve server performance (as the server would be backing up changes, not entire files). Because Flashback finds and saves updated versions of changed files, all the system essentially has to do is save "how to get back to the previous version" (in my general understanding of the technology), so the space used is marginal relative to the size needed to fully backup a file. Also, in the same way that a backup of your files does not count against your disk space quota, Flashback's older versions are maintained separately.

    Flashback has many other convenient features and "wow, that's pretty cool" components, but the main focus (as the name implies) is to allow people to quickly flash back to trustworthy files or versions. Ultimately, we see unlimited potential for Flashback in its continued development... Which will obviously excite us in sharing it with the web hosting community, and we are an excitable bunch (probably due to the lack of sleep )... <<< fluff removed >>>. If you have any specific questions about Flashback, the Site5 Community Forums are a great place to find answers, and if nothing else, I am sure one of the other members of the team can give more of a technical breakdown (without crossing the "We could tell you, but then we'd have to kill you" line) in this WHT thread.

    Thank you for the comments and support for Site5's vision of innovation and creativity... Flashback is just the tip of the iceberg with regard to some of the development plans our Engineering Team has in the works... I may have already said too much...
    I suspect that this is all based on CVS or something similar thats freely available in the open source community?
    Last edited by SoftWareRevue; 12-09-2005 at 12:11 PM.

  3. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by mripguru
    I suspect that this is all based on CVS or something similar thats freely available in the open source community?
    Site5-Kevin has already said:
    The Flashback system's main "Time Machine" features are based around simple subversion system
    So you don't need to suspect.

  4. #29
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    thestreet,

    BUT, he doesn't say whether they were built in-house or if they were using open source software written by someone else which is my point here - the fact that Flashback may just be, at the heart of things, another open source application that they "stole" to turn a profit from without giving proper credit to the original developers.

    My main concern here is the fact that Flashback is being sensationalized by Site5 as some innovative new tool when in reality CVS and friends have been around for YEARS, more than likely before Site5 was even founded. I don't think people really care where the underlying technology comes from, as long as it works - but please, don't say that you developed something exclusive when you just modified/added on to existing code, that's just wrong.

  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by mripguru
    another open source application that they "stole" to turn a profit from without giving proper credit to the original developers.
    Strong wording there. Do you have any evidence to back up your claims that they've ever "stolen" things in the past, as you've implied?
    Your one stop shop for decentralization

  6. #31
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    I'd like to apologize to all the Site5 staff/customers I may have offended with my previous post as I seem to have read something out of context before typing my initial response (seen above). I seem to have interpreted Kevin's lack of a crucial word as a *type* of application, not an application name (which I found on Google just now). So, again - I'm sorry and if a mod could remove the original post above - that'd be great.

  7. #32
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    Dec 2004
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    New York, NY
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    10,710
    FWIW, their "Netadmin 4" is not much more than cPanel skin [other than a few "cool" features here and there], and their "AccountJumper" is a standard feature with every cPanel installation.

    Not that it really matters too much to me . . . I don't want to start a feud about this either - just leave it at what it is currently, a simple observation.
    Last edited by layer0; 12-09-2005 at 02:29 PM.

  8. #33
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    Houston, TX
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    Quote Originally Posted by mripguru
    BUT, he doesn't say whether they were built in-house or if they were using open source software written by someone else which is my point here - the fact that Flashback may just be, at the heart of things, another open source application that they "stole" to turn a profit from without giving proper credit to the original developers.
    I'm sorry for not clarifying, but Site5 built Flashback in Rails from ground-zero. You can visit the Engineering Team's site (engineering.site5.com) to see recent activity, read their blogs all the way through the development process, and it looks like Matt will be posting a demo login for Flashback on that site so that everyone can check out the system. As far as credit goes, I would say Flashback is due to the hard work of the Rails community to build a great framework, Adam Greenfield, David Felstead, Rod Armstrong, Matt Lightner, Matt McCray, Scott Deming, Trevor Squires, and the Site5 community for being open to help us beta test it in the past month or so... And I'd like to thank "The Academy"... oops, I went a little overboard with that last one; I'll save that for when I win an Oscar.
    Kevin Hazard
    Director, Digital Content
    SoftLayer, an IBM Companyhttp://twitter.com/softlayer

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by mripguru
    thestreet,

    BUT, he doesn't say whether they were built in-house or if they were using open source software written by someone else which is my point here - the fact that Flashback may just be, at the heart of things, another open source application that they "stole" to turn a profit from without giving proper credit to the original developers.

    My main concern here is the fact that Flashback is being sensationalized by Site5 as some innovative new tool when in reality CVS and friends have been around for YEARS, more than likely before Site5 was even founded. I don't think people really care where the underlying technology comes from, as long as it works - but please, don't say that you developed something exclusive when you just modified/added on to existing code, that's just wrong.
    Well, it would be the same as the new email they have... based on an open source project.

    Bear, you know what he meant by "stole." That was why he/she put quotes around the word... I guess "used" would have been a better word....
    Windows 10 to Linux and Mac OSX: I'm PARSECs better than you. Eat my dust!!!

  10. #35
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    Kevin,

    Actually - I was more referring to subversion (which at the time when I originally wrote my first post I thought subversion was a type of versioning tool, and not the project name, that was my mistake) when I wrote that, not the Site5 interface (which from the screenshots looks awesome, I can't wait to try it out on my own Site5 account).

    Quote Originally Posted by Site5-Kevin
    I'm sorry for not clarifying, but Site5 built Flashback in Rails from ground-zero. You can visit the Engineering Team's site (engineering.site5.com) to see recent activity, read their blogs all the way through the development process, and it looks like Matt will be posting a demo login for Flashback on that site so that everyone can check out the system. As far as credit goes, I would say Flashback is due to the hard work of the Rails community to build a great framework, Adam Greenfield, David Felstead, Rod Armstrong, Matt Lightner, Matt McCray, Scott Deming, Trevor Squires, and the Site5 community for being open to help us beta test it in the past month or so... And I'd like to thank "The Academy"... oops, I went a little overboard with that last one; I'll save that for when I win an Oscar.

  11. #36
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    He said it was based on subversion :
    http://subversion.tigris.org/

    I commend site5 for their part in the ongoing hosting tradition of one upping the next guy. *note to self, one up does not mean an extra life. Hype or not your all here talking about it so I consider it nothing short of a success.
    Greg Landis | Director of Growth Jaguarpc - Unlock Superior Hosting with JaguarPC
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  12. #37
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    wow in the time I wrote that post there were 4 new ones.
    Greg Landis | Director of Growth Jaguarpc - Unlock Superior Hosting with JaguarPC
    Managed Servers - Virtual Private Servers | AMD EPYC Dedicated servers
    Follow us @ Facebook.com/Jaguarpc | (888)-338-5261 | greg @ jaguarpc.com

  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jag
    He said it was based on subversion :
    http://subversion.tigris.org/

    I commend site5 for their part in the ongoing hosting tradition of one upping the next guy. *note to self, one up does not mean an extra life. Hype or not your all here talking about it so I consider it nothing short of a success.
    Jag, I was just about to post that link - but the whole issue came about from miswriting/reading part of Kevin's initial post.

  14. #39
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Posts
    2,611
    First of all, before I say anything, I am a Site5 employee ( systems administration ), so take what you will from my post, it's simply meant as clarification.

    Quote Originally Posted by elix
    FWIW, their "Netadmin 4" is not much more than cPanel skin [other than a few "cool" features here and there], and their "AccountJumper" is a standard feature with every cPanel installation.
    It is true that NetAdmin is in effect, a cPanel theme. That said however, there are differences, which are clearly noted on our web site, and I'm more than certain there will be a lot more to come in this regard. For example, Site5 offers domain *Pointers* rather than *Addon* domains, which do differ in their setup / usage.

    As for Account Jumper, this could indeed be compared to the administrative fuction within the cPanel software itself, but I'll make mention of one major difference. Thanks to the my.Site5.com portal system ( which was built by Site5's very own Engineering team ) you are not actually jumping from account to account as the main account holders login. Doing so with the cPanel method does not allow you access to certain privilages such as anything MySQL. Thanks to the my.Site5 portal however, this is not the case and you are allowed full functionality with regards to MySQL and such. Perhaps that may just be something tiny and useless to some, but from the 6+ years that Site5 has been around, everything that we build in house, is based around what we hear our clients require. I think, and I certainly hope that if you research Site5's past history, you'll see that we have a record of changing for the better. As our clients needs evolve, so do our offerings, and so do the technologies that drive what we offer.

  15. #40

    *

    Quote Originally Posted by Aussie Bob
    Well they certianly know how to drum up awareness.

    To me the Flashback thingie doesn't look like a backup tool. It looks more like a backup_your_site_at_a_certian_previous_version kinda tool. I'm sure some folks could find that useful, although I'm really trying to think why would anyone want to have the ability to revert their site back to an earlier version.

    Could make for some interesting discussion though, and it's good to see hosts trying new things.

    hmmm. my 2 cents:

    I recently suffered SQL Injection and many files were infected with an iframe tag.

    If I had such a script installed on my server I would of course Love to be able to take the whole site, all the files, back to the day before the SQL injection

  16. #41

    *

    I apologize.... but .

    Back to the original subject of the topic

    What would be your current updated feedback on Site5.com !???

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