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  1. #1
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    If you don't want me to participate...

    In general, the mods do a very good job. But sometimes it seems that the thread-tossing is a little militant. I feel my participation here isn't appreciated and is not worth my effort when that happens, and it's been happening a lot lately.
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  2. #2
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    BigBison. The only threads you have started that I see removed are those that you seem to be carrying on a discussion with yourself.

    When you start a thread and no one responds, it's an indicator that perhaps it's not suitable for this audience.

    We have a policy regarding thread bumping. So, when no one responds other than you, it's pretty easy to see why you've had threads removed.

    I'd suggest you start a blog. In fact, I'd encourage it.

    I have no doubt that it would be quite popular.

    I know I'd visit.

    But, we can't have members using the Lounge here for their blogging. Sorry.
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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigBison
    . . . I feel my participation here isn't appreciated and is not worth my effort when that happens, and it's been happening a lot lately.
    Don't throw your pearls before swine. We're not worthy of your blog like posts.

    Errrr, that means if you want to blog, setup a blog, and maybe link to it in your WHT sig. You have amazing content (as seen from your blogging on WHT), and your blog would attract a lot of attention.
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  4. #4
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    Yes, you mods made your point about my threadblogging habits and I modified my behavior. However, I would point to the number of views my "talking to myself" threads get before agreeing that my topics are unsuitable. Have I complained about any of the threads or posts I've had removed until now? No.

    http://www.iwdn.net/showthread.php?t=3449

    You guys seem to be proactively censoring me now, if you are I don't appreciate it. Updating a thread with new and relevant information, instead of creating a fresh topic, is quite different from the threadblogging behavior the mods objected to. If you were worried that I would continue to "bump" this thread, then why not just lock it (or the other threads) instead of deleting everything I have to say? Perhaps if you had given it some time, my post this morning would have been replied to?

    If you're trying to send a "don't blog in the lounge" message, you're overdoing it and coming across as "go away".

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by SoftWareRevue
    When you start a thread and no one responds, it's an indicator that perhaps it's not suitable for this audience.
    Just because someone doesn't reply to the thread doesn't necessarily mean it is an inappropriate thread.
    Quote Originally Posted by SoftWareRevue
    We have a policy regarding thread bumping. So, when no one responds other than you, it's pretty easy to see why you've had threads removed.
    Thread bumping is one thing. Adding additional relevant info is another.
    Quote Originally Posted by BigBison
    Updating a thread with new and relevant information, instead of creating a fresh topic, is quite different from the threadblogging behavior the mods objected to.
    That's my point.

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  6. #6
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    Ya know, this problem could be solved with a simple hack that would just add the poster's newest statements onto the end of his post when the latest post on the thread when posting was made by the same member.

    You know what i mean? Let's say there was 1 post by BigBison, and then a half hour passed, and nobody posted. So, BigBison went back to the thread, and wrote up some additional notes. Instead of making 2 seperate posts, it would just take the contents of BB's 2nd post, and stick it onto the end of the first post.

    It could also be hacked to not update the last posts column. that way, the thread isn't automatically brought up to the front.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by ub3r
    Ya know, this problem could be solved with a simple hack that would just add the poster's newest statements onto the end of his post when the latest post on the thread when posting was made by the same member.

    You know what i mean?
    I like that idea.
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  8. #8
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    this problem could be solved with a simple hack
    WHT isn't exactly renowned for adding hacks, especially in a timely manner.

  9. #9
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    The hack like that that is currently out completely destroys the post if you make it after the edit time has expired. ProSlacker would have to write a new one.

    Also Vito there is a fine line between thread bumping and additional relevant information. You may see additional relevant information when a mod sees a bump, or the other way around.

    Finally what you are posting looks very much like a blog entry or article. Start up a blog, it would be interesting and most likely get alot of hits.

  10. #10
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    That's how NamePros has theirs. Not going to advertise it, do a search.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigBison
    . . . If you're trying to send a "don't blog in the lounge" message, you're overdoing it and coming across as "go away".
    Here's the thing - WHT is not a platform for folks to push their political agendas. There's a time and place for that, and that's not WHT.

    Your very content rich political posts are perfectly suited for a blog platform, and not WHT. I don't know why you're not blogging. You have a gift that would be very popular on the blogging platform.
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  12. #12
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    I don't think this is about politics not belonging at wht. This is just about thread bumping not being appropriate. Political discussion is fine, just as long as it isn't repeatedly bumped to the top of the forum list as a result of the OP trying to force discussion.

    We're not telling BB to go away. He's more than welcome to post here. Just don't bump threads to the top over and over again.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by ub3r
    I don't think this is about politics not belonging at wht. This is just about thread bumping not being appropriate. Political discussion is fine, just as long as it isn't repeatedly bumped to the top of the forum list as a result of the OP trying to force discussion.

    We're not telling BB to go away. He's more than welcome to post here. Just don't bump threads to the top over and over again.
    We're talking about blogging versus forum posting. They're different animals.

    If we allow one member to blog here, we'd have to allow anyone to blog here. And, trust me, you don't want everyone blogging here.

    It's not just about bumping threads, or carrying on a conversation with ones' self, or pushing an ideal. It is about using this medium for something that is much suited elsewhere.

    An occasional political 'discussion' is fine. But, if you just want to post and have others read, do it in your blog.

    If you want to blog; blog. Just don't blog here.

    Yes, you mods made your point about my threadblogging habits and I modified my behavior. However, I would point to the number of views my "talking to myself" threads get before agreeing that my topics are unsuitable.
    Thread views is all about thread titles.

    Just because someone doesn't reply to the thread doesn't necessarily mean it is an inappropriate thread.
    It's certainly not an indicator of appropriateness.
    Thread bumping is one thing. Adding additional relevant info is another
    Yes. We've discussed this.
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  14. #14
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    I can see both sides. And this is certainly not a black and white issue. Clearly, blog-type posts should be posted in your own blog (and I agree with Aussie Bob that BB definitely has a very talented pension for a very successful and popular personal blog).

    I guess the key is to differentiate between blog-type posts versus posts that invite community discussion. A difficult task to be sure.

    (Which is yet another reason why I would never want the responsibility of being a Mod - my head would friggin explode trying to figure all this stuff out... )

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  15. #15
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    imo, I personally dont mind his "blog" like posts, and a hack that will simply append it to the previous post would sort the problem out. You can still have a discussion about his topic in the thread, and thats the general idea.

    And there is nothing wrong with political posts on WHT, it might actually educate the majority (that lack a few clogs).

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by vito
    . . . Clearly, blog-type posts should be posted in your own blog (and I agree with Aussie Bob that BB definitely has a very talented pension for a very successful and popular personal blog).
    Yeah I agree. Content is king in the blogging world (I think) and BB certianly has that aspect pretty well perfected. Also BB's blog posts don't come accross as being extreme, or bashing. They're level headed, intelligent and thoughtful analysis, in the exploration for truth.

    Come on BB, start the freakin blog!!
    (Which is yet another reason why I would never want the responsibility of being a Mod - my head would friggin explode trying to figure all this stuff out... )
    Exactly.
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  17. #17
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    My posting style is my posting style and has been for as long as I've posted here, if you want to call it "blog-like" then I guess you can. When I apply my style to a lounge thread about current events, I'm told I'm doing something wrong. Would you like me to cross-post a hundred threads where I've made ten or more posts back-to-back without anyone complaining? That mods have participated in? The only time I've been warned for thread-bumping was probably reported by Gen-T.

    The only time the mods seem to take exception is when those are political posts in the lounge. Also, let's not overlook my actual complaint here. Why can't those threads be locked, instead of deleting well over 100 of my posts this month? I'd feel more welcome to stay and contribute if those threads were locked instead of constantly removed. But I won't be changing a posting style I've established here without complaint over the past year and a half. "Go start a blog" means "stay out of the lounge" which is the message I'm not happy to be receiving here. I would think that with my contributions to this forum, I'd be allowed to blow off some steam in the lounge without becoming WHT enemy #1.

    I just don't see where making a dozen posts in one thread hurts anyone. Perhaps my lounge threads would get more responses if they didn't get pushed down so fast by those who open a dozen lounge threads daily.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by SoftWareRevue
    Thread views is all about thread titles.
    I disagree. It doesn't really matter what my threads are titled, they get about 80 views. So I would say there are about 80 people here who read my threads, based not on the title, but on who started the thread. There are some people here whose threads I read regardless of title, and regardless of whether or not anyone has responded to the thread.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigBison
    It doesn't really matter what my threads are titled, they get about 80 views.
    Of course it does. Add enough drama queen to the title, and folks will click on it, only to find out it's boring, political nonsense.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigBison
    I just don't see where making a dozen posts in one thread hurts anyone. Perhaps my lounge threads would get more responses if they didn't get pushed down so fast by those who open a dozen lounge threads daily.
    I seem to recall you reported one of your threads once, where you wondered where all the Bush aplogists were, as none responded to your long multi-bumped thread. It appears you were expecting a flame war and it didn't happen.
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  21. #21
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    No, I was trying to kid with the mods, thought you had a sense of humor. Instead, I was taken word-for-word literally, which I still find bizarre.

  22. #22
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    Even though Eric and I find ourselves at opposite poles of the political spectrum I find him to be intelligent and sincere in his efforts to learn and present information. He's also a very decent guy.

    I have been frustrated a couple of times to post some very lengthy replies in a thread to have the entire thread deleted. I can appreciate the discouragement.

    I agree that thread locking seems more appropriate because complete deletion of hours of typing is very discouraging and not just a little bit insulting. If the goal is to "discipline" the contributor then lock the thread but deletion of entire trains of thought unless it is out of the bounds of proriety just seems like a less than prudent course of action. I have even suspected that some folks have asked for deletion of threads because they have been intellectually embarassed. There are some inane thoughts that deserve deletion much more than Eric's even if he is a bit long-winded.

    There's a reason why the national archives keeps even internet communications. I'm not suggesting that WHT is archiving profound thoughts all the time but neither is the information so trivial that entire contributions ought to be forever deleted.
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  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigBison
    No, I was trying to kid with the mods, thought you had a sense of humor. Instead, I was taken word-for-word literally, which I still find bizarre.
    From the Report Bad Post Page...

    Note: This is to be used as a point of contact to report spam, advertising messages, and problematic (harassment, fighting, or rude) posts. Other uses include, post edit requests, and anything you would think a moderator should see or look into.
    I don't see "kid with the mods" as an option there... if you want to kid with the mods join IRC. They do in fact have a sense of humor, you should see some of the replies I get from posts I report

  24. #24
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    You're aware that wording wasn't there when I made the report in question, right? It came with the 3.5 upgrade. I don't IRC. Yes, I've kidded with the mods before. That's probably why I thought I could get away with calling myself a troll. By the way, I also spam for a living.

    Was I expecting a flame or two? Yes. Does that mean I was trying to incite them? No. Was I surprised that they hadn't materialized? You bet! Post anything anti-Bush in the lounge if you aren't me and see what happens. That's why I asked in that report, "Do I have the right lounge?"
    Last edited by BigBison; 12-01-2005 at 12:00 AM.

  25. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by BigBison
    My posting style is my posting style and has been for as long as I've posted here, if you want to call it "blog-like" then I guess you can. When I apply my style to a lounge thread about current events, I'm told I'm doing something wrong.
    Hey man, at least you don't have my apparent "overcompensatory" and "unintelligible" writing style Anyway, I can sympathize either way. In the end, it's really nothing short of the condemnation of a writing style because its content or prose ends up completely transcending the estimated norm. This sort of behavior can typically be witnessed anywhere in life, but I will agree that it does happen on this forum to a bizarre extent.

    It's kind of sad actually, because what really ends up happening is the promotion of fear.... that is the fear of expressing genuine critical/creative/original thought all due to a silly/strict rule set that is in place to suppress literature. I mean come on, if it's not a troll or a flame, why suppress it? BigBison is one of the very few people on this forum who takes the time to intellectually charge his writing. Some people appreciate seeing this sort of style and effort in a post. Just because you or the majority of the demographic of users visiting this forum may not, doesn't mean it should be removed. It would be like sending the smartest kid in a grade 2 classroom to the office because his writing is twice as advanced as the rest of the class--in other words, utterly nonsensical.

    I mean come on, you can rationalize it all you want with petty parallels comparing the writing to that of a blog--a horribly weak fall-back argument in itself (IMO)--, but in the end, the concept of suppressing creative and intelligent literature is really nothing short of absurd. It's mind blowing to me that there's even an argument about this at all.

    In fact, to even further the point here, I had been planning on contributing to the very thread which was removed, but it had slipped my mind. I remember reading it a while back and pondering on a response, but I must have gotten tied up with something else in the moment and eventually forgot about it.

    Quote Originally Posted by BigBison
    So I would say there are about 80 people here who read my threads, based not on the title, but on who started the thread.
    I can attest to this. While I don't always agree with Eric's point of view, I enjoy reading his posts none the less as they usually contain interesting content. Sometimes I'll laugh at the absurdity of the content, other times I'll agree with it (like right now for example), but the bottom line is that I almost always enjoy the content in one way or another.

    For a prevalent example: regardless of the negative angle of his notorious attacks on my company, I enjoy debating with him none the less. I enjoy the challenge of it and I enjoy the opportunity that he presents me with to widen my company's ethical framework in a detailed manner.

    Quote Originally Posted by DevilDog
    Even though Eric and I find ourselves at opposite poles of the political spectrum I find him to be intelligent and sincere in his efforts to learn and present information. He's also a very decent guy.

    I have been frustrated a couple of times to post some very lengthy replies in a thread to have the entire thread deleted. I can appreciate the discouragement.
    Right, I was going to post something along these lines as well. This may be hard to understand for someone who has no genuine sense of pride in their writing and more or less just "plays the part", but seeing your own hard work getting purged can be quite frustrating indeed. Especially when it is a well thought out body of writing or when a lot of time when into it. In fact, it's lucky that BigBison had a copy of the purged thread over on IWDN. If I had taken the time and effort to write something that long only to see it destroyed for no good reason whatsoever, I would have been pretty ****in' pissed as well. Especially if I didn't have a backup copy of what I had written. Talk about reckless disregard.

    Again, suppressing rabid trolls is one thing, but suppressing creative/intellectual output is really nothing short of deplorable as far as I'm concerned.
    Last edited by mmaaaaattt; 12-03-2005 at 10:50 AM.

  26. #26
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    Again, suppressing rabid trolls is one thing, but suppressing creative/intellectual output is really nothing short of deplorable as far as I'm concerned.
    I hate to be one to add to this whole ordeal. But, I too am now noticing a bit of undue censorship going on. Heck just made a post directing someone asking for recommendations to do some research and check the offers section, only to find just now that post has been removed. Is such against the rules too now to assist in pointing a forum member in the right direction? Thought that such was just helping out users.

    Honestly the mods do a great job but yes at times it does seem as though some tend to be a bit overzealous. Hopefully such will change for the better though.

  27. #27
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    I see this time after time too.
    People making posts to get their signatures noticed. That has got to stop.

    I don't mind any of BigBison's so called "not needed" posts. But what I do mind is people making those posts that add nothing to the conversation just to get their signatures noticed.

    How can this be stopped?

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by adb22791
    From the Report Bad Post Page...
    The reports can be used for other things too, such as asking or answering a question for the helpdesk.

    I don't see "kid with the mods" as an option there... if you want to kid with the mods join IRC. They do in fact have a sense of humor, you should see some of the replies I get from posts I report
    "Kid with the mods" is certainly an option on the helpdesk. The kidding around is what makes the job fun. But we might not always know when someone is kidding. It depends on how the ticket is written, who reads it, how well that mod knows the member who opened the ticket, and so on.

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  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by mjzz
    In the end, it's really nothing short of the condemnation of a writing style because its content or prose ends up completely transcending the estimated norm. This sort of behavior can typically be witnessed anywhere in life, but I will agree that it does happen on this forum to a bizarre extent.
    I disagree. A lot of people have praised Eric's writing. They find it interesting to read, but it doesn't generate discussion. To leap from not posting in response to something to "condemnation of a writing style" is what's bizarre to me. The posts were removed because they didn't work in this forum, not for any other reason.

    It's kind of sad actually, because what really ends up happening is the promotion of fear.... that is the fear of expressing genuine critical/creative/original thought all due to a silly/strict rule set that is in place to suppress literature.
    There is no suppression here. Quite a few people have encouraged Eric to start a blog, which is more suited for his type of writing.

    BigBison is one of the very few people on this forum who takes the time to intellectually charge his writing. Some people appreciate seeing this sort of style and effort in a post. Just because you or the majority of the demographic of users visiting this forum may not, doesn't mean it should be removed.
    That could be taken as an insult to the majority of people here. But if, for whatever reason, the majority of users in any forum don't appreciate a particular type of post, that suggests that those posts should find another home. In this case, we aren't saying that people don't appreciate his posts, just that they don't respond to them. And this is WebHostingTalk.

    Eric writes well, and a lot of people enjoy reading his writing, but his Lounge posts often don't generate discussion with anyone but himself. That's all there is to it. No condemnation, no suppression, no bizarre behaviour. It's the job of the moderators of every forum to keep the forum running well, which can include removing well-written posts that end up being like blog entries.

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  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by jschurawlow
    I hate to be one to add to this whole ordeal. But, I too am now noticing a bit of undue censorship going on. Heck just made a post directing someone asking for recommendations to do some research and check the offers section, only to find just now that post has been removed. Is such against the rules too now to assist in pointing a forum member in the right direction? Thought that such was just helping out users.
    Speaking generally, when hosts post suggesting where to look when the thread starter has asked for recommendations, or when another member has already suggested where to search, such posts look like signature spam. If you want to ask about a specific post of yours, you can ask at the helpdesk.

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  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Surpass Networks
    But what I do mind is people making those posts that add nothing to the conversation just to get their signatures noticed.

    How can this be stopped?
    Use the "Report this post" link (the button with the horizontal lines below the usernames) when you see such posts, and the mods will look at them.

    Lois
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  32. #32
    Oh come on Lois, do you actually believe what you are writing here? Logical fallacies on all three counts... at least give me a challenge to disprove!

    Quote Originally Posted by writespeak
    To leap from not posting in response to something to "condemnation of a writing style" is what's bizarre to me. The posts were removed because they didn't work in this forum, not for any other reason.
    Ehh, you know, I was hastily typing out a long reply explaining the logic behind how it is in fact "suppression" and "condemnation" in the end... there's basically no doubt about this at all. The words just sound negative because they cut to the bone/are true so they're dressed up with silly superficial "rationalizations" as witnessed above. But yeah, it's really a waste of effort on my part in the end. I had something pretty long written up, but I deleted it because it's more or less futile.

    Anyone with half a brain should be able to rationalize what is obviously going on here. There is really no point in explaining it in tedious detail for the slow-witted when nothing is going to be done about it anyway. For the rest who actually understand, no further explanation is required.

    So yeah, my previous post is still unscathed. If anyone wants to attempt a real critique of what I wrote, I'll be happy to reply to it. Apologies for coming off as insulting/terse/honest but there's really nothing past the guise of superficiality to respond to here!

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by mjzz
    Oh come on Lois, do you actually believe what you are writing here?
    I do. And yes, I did think about what I wrote.

    The words just sound negative because they cut to the bone/are true so they're dressed up with silly superficial "rationalizations" as witnessed above. But yeah, it's really a waste of effort on my part in the end. I had something pretty long written up, but I deleted it because it's more or less futile.

    Anyone with half a brain should be able to rationalize what is obviously going on here.
    I am happy to let those words stand. Readers can draw their own conclusions.

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  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aussie Bob
    Don't throw your pearls before swine. We're not worthy of your blog like posts.

    Errrr, that means if you want to blog, setup a blog, and maybe link to it in your WHT sig. You have amazing content
    I've read this topic several times now and can only draw the same conclusion. BB, you're obviously intelligent and have very clear cut opinions. Begin a blog! No offense, but adding one thought on to another and another doesn't go anywhere.. Show the world what you have to offer!

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by JSpired
    . . . BB, you're obviously intelligent and have very clear cut opinions. Begin a blog! No offense, but adding one thought on to another and another doesn't go anywhere.. Show the world what you have to offer!
    Hear hear!
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  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by mjzz
    . . . Anyone with half a brain should be able to rationalize what is obviously going on here. There is really no point in explaining it in tedious detail for the slow-witted . . .
    I agree. Blogging is for blogs.

    Live long and prosper.
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    84
    hmm. After reading this thread, if you ever do start a blog, let me know and I'll read it. URL?

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