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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
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    Netherlands
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    76

    Building a Datacenter

    Dear WHT Users,

    Before i begin i want to say that i know there are 1000's of topics about this out already, but i am looking for specific help.

    I am looking for some (preferably Dutch) data center builders with experience. I need someone to help me with several price schemes.

    For a big company im looking for the estimated prices of the following:

    • Building a Datacenter (the building itself and all the facilities)
    • Renting a Building and changing it into a datacenter (airco, raised floors, etc.)
    • Using an existing datacenter and renting a big hall/space for our own network


    Ofcourse you wont be able to say the prices 1/2/3, but for details i would like to you ask here, or contact me via MSN/email ([email protected])

    Thanks in Advance,

    Zoran Pillay

    P.s. please dont moan about its very expensive and we should better just colocate with someone else, this is for a big company who has the money and might be prepared to invest into it.
    Quality Metered/Unmetered Servers in the Netherlands
    Offering custom solutions in an extreme quality network!
    Find out why we are a lifetime experience and contact us!

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
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    Nevada
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    887
    Roughly how large of a datacenter?

    Your best bet is to spend time looking for abandoned data centers that are on the market if they meet your space needs.

    Next, you need to look for buildings where there are multiple fiber carriers

    If you can find existing buildings, you are looking at roughly $500 - $800 / sq ft for buildout depending on the level of quality for HVAC, power, etc. Of course that number can swing wildly depending on whether you utilize used equipment; union rates, etc.

    I would suggest getting an experienced designer first, then have multiple sit-downs with the client and the designer to make darn sure that what is being built meets the client short- and long-term needs and expectations.
    Questions like why raised floors, heat density, security, upfront costs vs long-term OEM, etc all need to be decided now.

    Take a look at some of the threads and you will see a lot of moaning about high energy costs; yet one of the recently built data centers installed used HVAC equipment because of the lower first cost even though enegy costs will be about double

    There is a company called CCG Facilities Integration Incorporated in Baltimore, MD that has designed data centers all over the place

    You can get large built-out space (10,000 sq ft) in an existing data center for around $20 - $25/ sq ft per month that is ready to go.

    You can get large RAW space (10,000 sq ft) in an existing data center for around $6-$8/ sq ft per month that you can buildout.

    Estimating operations cost: calculate your manpower and your energy costs based on local rates, and double it to take care of all the asundry items. Manpower: you need 5 guys to handle a 24 hour position times the number of positions. Power: 20 or 40 amps per rack plus your HVAC power. Yes you dont actually use 20 amps, but by the time you estimate lighting, battery loss, etc. it gets close


    Again, focus on finding buildings with fiber

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    76
    Thanks for the reply.

    To make it more specific, we're trying to list all probable costs we will have.
    We ask you to please add on as much as you can think of to this list as well as trying to post price estimates for the costs of each element.

    One off fees:
    • Purchase of the ground
    • Demolitian of building (in case we want to rebuild the current building)
    • Construction of the building
    • Dark fiber connections (the laying)
    • Airco
    • Security Gates
    • Power Generator + diesel
    • Power Supply System
    • Network setup costs (routers and such, but not important now)
    • ...

    Monthly fees:
    • Dark Fiber (i think)
    • Staff (engineers, security etc.)
    • Network costs (all the traffic and such but this is not of importance now)
    • Power/Energy/Water etc.
    • ...


    Thank you in advance for helping with this issue.

    Zoran Pillay

    World Industries
    Quality Metered/Unmetered Servers in the Netherlands
    Offering custom solutions in an extreme quality network!
    Find out why we are a lifetime experience and contact us!

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
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    Nevada
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    887
    Roughly how large of a datacenter?

    Just thought that I would ask.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    North Kansas City, MO
    Posts
    2,565
    Your request is not specific enough.

    - Purchase of the ground

    How much land? Where do you want to purchase the land at? Are there existing improvements?

    - Demolitian of building (in case we want to rebuild the current building)

    How big is the building? What's it made out of? Is it old and has asbestos or other enviromental hazzards that need to be addressed by the demolition crew?

    - Construction of the building

    How big? Do you need to take seismic issues into consideration? does the building need any special structural or enviromental considerations? What kind of loading do you need on the walls, floor, ceiling?

    - Dark fiber connections (the laying)

    To where? Are you constructing a vault in the building? Are there existing splice points you need to go to? How far away are they? What easement or permit issues are there? Do you need to pull permits from more then one entity? (pole owners, franchise owners...)

    - Airco

    Do you mean Enviromental systems?

    - Security Gates

    Inside ot outside? Do they need to be automatic or manual? What sort of security system do you have and do the exterior gates need to be integrated with it? How big?

    - Power Generator + diesel

    How much power is in the building? What size generator do you need? what vendor do you want to use? Is it going to be inside the building or outside? Do you want diesel or natural gas, propane....

    - Power Supply System

    Do you need AC and DC? What are the power specifications in the area thet you are going to build in? Do you have to pay the power company to run additional capacity to your land?

    - Network setup costs (routers and such, but not important now)

    How is the bandwidth delivered? How much do you have? What vendor do you perfer? Are there any special engineer requirements that you need met?


    These are just the basics. I think you have ALONG way to go before you can ask these questions. You best bet is to get with an nginering firm that specialized in DC construction, or at least has experience with it, and discuss your requirements and budget with them.

    Aaron
    Aaron Wendel
    Wholesale Internet, Inc. - http://www.wholesaleinternet.net
    Kansas City Internet eXchange - http://www.kcix.net

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    26
    I must agree with my colleagues, you are too general in your questions, also a lot of situations are country specific. We have build our own DCs in Germany and Poland and plan on building our own DC in the Netherlands as well, so maybe i can help you a little on the way

    First of all our Polish DC is about 3500 m2 and our german DC about 1200 m2 so my experience is limited to medium sized DCs for the moment.

    I will use your own template.

    * Purchase of the ground

    You will want some ground where there is already fiber in the ground, preferably from/to diverse amount of parties. Do you plan to make a carrier independant DC or just a DC for your (client) needs?

    * Demolitian of building (in case we want to rebuild the current building)

    Probably you are best off with a building ready to be turned into a DC, usually a building with a high ceiling. If there is a floor above or below ground level, you must make sure that the building is constructed in this way that it can actually handle the assigned weight per square metre.

    * Construction of the building

    You should calculate the maximum weight per square metre.

    * Dark fiber connections (the laying)

    Approx. 45 euro/ metre new fiber. Also there will be probably a lengthy procedure with the local goverments for licenses and agreements before you can do the actual cabling. You must work with an approved company, they can explain all the details to you.

    * Airco

    We used APCs InfraStruxure cabinets, they come with airco and UPS in the actual cabinet.

    * Security Gates

    Compared with your overall cost, don't worry about it now.

    * Power Generator + diesel

    Preferable two or more, all depends on size of the overall power consumption, make sure you calculate the fact that the airco also will need emergency generator power during a blackout

    * Network setup costs (routers and such, but not important now)

    All depends what you want to route to where. beware that almost all core routers / core switches come with yearly license / os / maintenance costs.



    Monthly fees:

    * Dark Fiber (i think)

    If you put them in the ground they are yours, but usually you have to pay a yearly fee to a local goverment.

    * Staff (engineers, security etc.)

    Depends on local payments.

    * Network costs (all the traffic and such but this is not of importance now)

    Where to, how much?

    * Power/Energy/Water etc.

    Power = Energy, you have to deal with your local energy provider.


    We need to know your plans with this DC before we can even start to answer your questions more specific, but if you are planning to rent and deploy a medium sized DC you must think of several millions of euro in expenses, add a lot more if you would like to buy such a building in for example fiber rich areas like Amsterdam.
    Last edited by swiftway; 11-15-2005 at 09:27 PM.
    M. Leil
    Swiftway Communications AS35017
    [email protected]
    A Neoworld Limited company.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    76
    Quote Originally Posted by WII-Aaron
    Your request is not specific enough.

    - Purchase of the ground

    How much land? Where do you want to purchase the land at? Are there existing improvements?
    We have 2 options at the moment, 1 building which is 2100m2 but we think its way to small. Another building which we arent sure if its for sale or not (we need to contact the owners) which i dont have the size of but i expect it to be about 20000-30000m2

    - Demolitian of building (in case we want to rebuild the current building)

    How big is the building? What's it made out of? Is it old and has asbestos or other enviromental hazzards that need to be addressed by the demolition crew?
    For the bigger land, there is a small building approx. 1000-2000m2 and a ton of glass greenhouses (welcome to farmer holland )

    - Construction of the building

    How big? Do you need to take seismic issues into consideration? does the building need any special structural or enviromental considerations? What kind of loading do you need on the walls, floor, ceiling?
    Well, we plan on building the full 20000-30000m2 with DataCenter. Seismic issues will be no problem as there has never been a single earthquake in Rotterdam (Highest one in the farthest southern point was about 2-3 on the scale of Richter). We're trying to get the construction at one of the highest quality so we're looking at which is the best option to go for as ceilings, walls etc.

    - Dark fiber connections (the laying)

    To where? Are you constructing a vault in the building? Are there existing splice points you need to go to? How far away are they? What easement or permit issues are there? Do you need to pull permits from more then one entity? (pole owners, franchise owners...)
    Dark fiber to our building. What is the reason for a vault? Is it worth it? We will need some guidance about the infrastructure of the fiber for instance:
    - Does it get layed directly to our routers in Amsterdam or do we get connected to a fiber ring of for instance KPN?
    We will need some permits (local government building permit, OPTA, and as a network we'll want RIPE and some domain licenses like SIDN and maybe ICANN but its not sure how far we want to go)


    - Airco

    Do you mean Enviromental systems?
    Yes, as i understand a common used system is HVAC?

    - Security Gates

    Inside ot outside? Do they need to be automatic or manual? What sort of security system do you have and do the exterior gates need to be integrated with it? How big?
    We'll want fences around the perimiter, and a security batch port when entering the DC (where the door opens on 1 side, you get into a tube, once the door is closed the other door opens)

    - Power Generator + diesel

    How much power is in the building? What size generator do you need? what vendor do you want to use? Is it going to be inside the building or outside? Do you want diesel or natural gas, propane....
    Power depends on how much we'll need. We need someone with a lot of electrician experience to help us with this. The generator will probably be inside the building. The diesel tank will be placed in the ground. We'll go for the high end solution for the diesel/gas/propane.


    - Power Supply System

    Do you need AC and DC? What are the power specifications in the area thet you are going to build in? Do you have to pay the power company to run additional capacity to your land?
    We have no idea about this, as i mentioned, we're looking for someone with a lot of electricians experience to help us with this as we're not very known among the electric needs and such.

    - Network setup costs (routers and such, but not important now)

    How is the bandwidth delivered? How much do you have? What vendor do you perfer? Are there any special engineer requirements that you need met?
    We're build the network like this:
    - Routers in the DC's in amsterdam, and there we get our connections, transits and such. Then we'll use the dark fiber to connect to the DC in Rotterdam. Are there any negative sides about this? How do we get transit directly in our DC via the dark fiber?


    These are just the basics. I think you have ALONG way to go before you can ask these questions. You best bet is to get with an nginering firm that specialized in DC construction, or at least has experience with it, and discuss your requirements and budget with them.

    Well, thanks for the help, we've contacted CCG already but no reply as of yet. Please keep asking questions like this. As this is our first project, we dont know what to provide as for information. So ask questions and we'll answer

    Aaron

    Thank you all for answering, keep it coming
    Quality Metered/Unmetered Servers in the Netherlands
    Offering custom solutions in an extreme quality network!
    Find out why we are a lifetime experience and contact us!

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Nevada
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    887
    What is the reason for a vault? Is it worth it?
    For the transition from the fiber ring conduit to your conduit. Ideally you will have four vaults, one for each side of the building. Vaults are definitely worth it, I would suggest required. For large data centers, ideally you would connect to four different fiber rings. Then you would have a couple of 4" or 6" steel conduits from the vault to your meet-me room. Inside of each conduit you would have several innerducts.


    Does it get layed directly to our routers in Amsterdam or do we get connected to a fiber ring of for instance KPN?
    You want (several) fiber rings connected to the vaults IT is more a case of finding buildings that already have fiber, or where multiple fiber rings are very close. You will want to get the fiber maps from the various carriers and overlay them to find where they intersect, and look for buildings at those intersections. There are a LOT of companies that went out of business by finding cheap real estate, building a data center on the cheap real estate, and then trying to get low cost connectivity. Doesnt work that way.

    a security batch port when entering the DC (where the door opens on 1 side, you get into a tube, once the door is closed the other door opens
    Designers / owners generally expend their effort on where they think people will enter, and ignore the big security holes -- shipping/receiving and maintenance. Then if they do design separate rooms for shipping/receiving; and for maintenance staff entry; they often overlook the process control & procedures. It takes a lot of training, motivation, and vigilance with the swing and graveyard shifts -- which is when a lot of the big thefts occur.
    Also, if security is really an issue, carefully analyze the security of the mechanical equipment. A kid with a pellet gun can take out a air-actuated condensor water valve; shutting off feed water to the cooling towers results in no air conditioning

    The generator will probably be inside the building.
    build enough elbow room around them for maintenance.

    Routers in the DC's in amsterdam, and there we get our connections, transits and such. Then we'll use the dark fiber to connect to the DC in Rotterdam. Are there any negative sides about this? How do we get transit directly in our DC via the dark fiber?
    the negative side is the potential for fiber cuts, therefore you will want multiple diverse paths. You get the transit to your DC by lighting the dark fiber with either 10 gig waves or OC192 for something this size. So you will have both (mutiple) routers and (mutiple) c/dwdm equipment in each location

    we've contacted CCG
    They did one outside of the Schipol airport, they know what they are doing. Well, if the same guys are there.....

    OK, so you are looking at building a real data center. Why Rotterdam?

    Energy costs are increasing Are there nearby cities / countries with cheaper power for large-commercial customers? with a 20,000 sq m data center you are looking at 15 - 20 MW; and that is worth shopping around for.

    Scrolling through the questions above we havent really hit fire suppression. Have you already addresses this issue?

    For large data centers, the operational expense increases due to the process controls and procedures ( such as ISO ) End up with a lot of training, documentaition, etc. Also, miscellaneous things like security, janitorial, insurance, etc. starts adding up

    Of all your responses, this scares me the most "welcome to farmer holland" If you are looking at building where land is cheap, rather then where fiber is plentiful, you are in a lot of trouble.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    76
    Thanks for the reply.

    First of all, the "Welcome to farmer holland" was a joke .. that building is not purely cheap estate.. it is built close to several industrial terrains (its not a farm house).

    Is there any way of checking the best position for the Datacenter? where do you get the exact carrier maps?

    "Why Rotterdam?" -> Centralized in NL, less competition than in Amsterdam, big city with lots of companies (I know 1 datacenter in Rotterdam which runs exceptionally well purely because they are the only one, so if we are able to outrun them in quality, we will get the customers. We wont go for any low budget carriers, so Cogent can be forgotten )
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