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  1. #1
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    * Don't turn to God..

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4427144.stm
    Evangelist says voters reject God

    A US Christian evangelist has told a Pennsylvania town not to ask for God's help if disaster strikes after it voted against teaching intelligent design.
    ID says life is too complex to have developed through evolution and an unseen power must have had a hand.

    On Tuesday, Dover voters ousted the local school board, which had tried to introduce the concept as an alternative to the theory of evolution.

    Pat Robertson told his TV show that the town had turned its back on God.

    "I'd like to say to the good citizens of Dover: If there is a disaster in your area, don't turn to God, you just rejected Him from your city," Mr Robertson said on The 700 Club.
    so much for 'turning the other cheek' and 'we are all God's children'. In my opinion this guy's rhetoric is as bad as Osama Bin Laden's.
    <erno> hm. I've lost a machine.. literally _lost_. it responds to ping, it works completely, I just can't figure out where in my apartment it is.
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  2. #2
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    A modern day Jonathan Edwards
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  3. #3
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    He’s a pretty disgusting guy; this isn’t surprising.
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  4. #4
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    "I'd like to say to the good citizens of Dover: If there is a disaster in your area, don't turn to God, you just rejected Him from your city," Mr Robertson said on The 700 Club.
    Wow. What an unbelievable statement.

    Sadly, his viewers, for the most part, accept his words unchallenged.

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  5. #5
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    That's the problem with religious zealots, everything is so black and white to them, even though the world isn't.
    "Arms discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as well as property... Horrid mischief would ensue were the law-abiding deprived of the use of them." - Thomas Paine
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  6. #6
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    Nothing new from this hypocrite. He keeps making outrageous statements and people keep tuning in to his show and giving him money.
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  7. #7
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by derek.bodner
    A modern day Jonathan Edwards

    Eh! whats our olympic triple jump champion got to do with it ..
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  9. #9
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    Hahaha.

    I was more going for the Jonathan Edwards of the Reformation period
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by trau
    That's the problem with religious zealots, everything is so black and white to them, even though the world isn't.
    Well said. Unfortunately, this is the stance that Bush and many other current politicians seem to take, and it annoys me very much.
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  11. #11
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    Religious fundamentalists scare the hell out of me, regardless of which flavor they are. I tend to notice they're generally the last ones to practise what they preach.
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by trau
    That's the problem with religious zealots, everything is so black and white to them, even though the world isn't.
    Just to play devil's advocate (kinda ironic saying that)

    But in revelation, it says:
    Revelation 3:15 - 15I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were either one or the other! 16So, because you are lukewarm—neither hot nor cold—I am about to spit you out of my mouth.
    Although, I do disagree with what this guy has said. Because many times in the bible, it was THE FACT that people DID turn to God when they needed him, that he brought his mercy.

    Quote Originally Posted by akashik
    Religious fundamentalists scare the hell out of me, regardless of which flavor they are. I tend to notice they're generally the last ones to practise what they preach.
    I have to agree. Although, I do know many people who are totally on fire for God and live it out. Most of the time, the ones that get attention by the media (and other forms of attention) are the crazy ones - which really does give other christians a bad name.

    In conclusion, I think this guy was talking out of anger rather than a prophetic voice of God - however who knows? All we can do is compare it to the word of God and see if it aligns with what God says. (since he doesnt contradict himself)
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by trau
    That's the problem with religious zealots, everything is so black and white to them, even though the world isn't.
    That is how it is suppose to be with christianity. You are believer or not. There is no middle ground. It all IS black and white. You cannot be half-way christian. You can not have two gods and they cannot both be right. There is no gray there. Religion is based on "you are one of us or you go to hell" thing. I repect this guy much more then some "all religions are good" people. At least he is honest in his believes and he says it as he sees it.
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by sasha
    That is how it is suppose to be with christianity. You are believer or not. There is no middle ground. It all IS black and white. You cannot be half-way christian. You can not have two gods and they cannot both be right. There is no gray there. Religion is based on "you are one of us or you go to hell" thing. I repect this guy much more then some "all religions are good" people. At least he is honest in his believes and he says it as he sees it.


    I don't know where you came up with this nonsense.

    The fact is many religions are very tolerant of other religions and beliefs.

    If you respect Pat Robertson for what he says then I pity you.
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  15. #15
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    blue27,

    Sash is not being sympathetic

    Nonetheless Pat Robertson needs to actually read what he's preaching rather than making up his own trash.

    Er, scratch that: I'd prefer if he didn't.
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  16. #16
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    Pat Robertson is an idiot. 'Nuff said.

    Having said that, I agree with sasha that true Christianity is on or off - there really is not an inbetween.
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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by David
    blue27,

    Sash is not being sympathetic

    Nonetheless Pat Robertson needs to actually read what he's preaching rather than making up his own trash.

    Er, scratch that: I'd prefer if he didn't.

    Sash is still making certain generalizations toward religion that are false regardless of whether you are a believer or not.

    I am certainly not a believer but I do have respect for the philosophies of many religions and the fundamentals that they teach.
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  18. #18
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    blue, if you are not a believer, I certainly don't believe you have a right to dicate policies of religion.
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by mynameweb
    blue, if you are not a believer, I certainly don't believe you have a right to dicate policies of religion.

    If you can point out anywhere that I am attempting to "dictate policies" of religion then please do. If not, then I don't see any logic in your post at all.

    Oh wait, you are still sulking over previous posts.
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by blue17
    Sash is still making certain generalizations toward religion that are false regardless of whether you are a believer or not.
    As you do not hold to a religion, how do you know what is false and what is not false? Eh? Sounds to me like an outside dictation of policy, no?
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  21. #21
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    Let's see if we can continue this discussion staying on-topic and respectful of other people's opinions, without any accusations or name calling.

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  22. #22
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    How is anything Pat Robertson spews suprising?

    The man has been on live television praying for people to die. He has called for the assassination of foreign leaders. Now he is telling a town not to turn to god. In the list of things he has said this is rather minor.
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  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by blue27
    I don't know where you came up with this nonsense.

    The fact is many religions are very tolerant of other religions and beliefs.

    If you respect Pat Robertson for what he says then I pity you.
    I respect honesty and truth. Pat Roberson is honest and truthful to himself and his religion. I have to respect that. That does not mean I like it in any way, but I respect it. Much more so then some half-Christian or half-Muslim who has no respect for his own believes.

    About Christianity, nowhere in the Bible (the book which cannot be changed or updated with current politics) does it say that pagans and Christians will share Heavenly Kingdom. The most important event in Christianity, that every TRUE Christian is looking forward to, is Second Coming. The time when pagans will burn in fires and die painful deaths. I see no tolerance there. Religion by its nature exist on the fact that "my" god is greater then "yours". It is all about NOT tolerating others (unless they are willing to join you in not tolerating others).
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  24. #24
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    Coming from a multi religon and multi racial country, I feel that it is not just about tolerating others' religions, but to learn and understand their beliefs, respect them for what they are. The least you can do here is make sure your postings are within the tolerable limits of the forums, don't make the thread turn ugly.
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  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by boonchuan
    ... it is not just about tolerating others' religions, but to learn and understand their beliefs, respect them for what they are.
    I agree completely.

    Religion and other controversial topics sometimes get watered down to try to please everyone, and there isn't much substance left afterwards. This may be what some people in this thread are referring to. However, it is very possible to maintain your own beliefs without watering them down and to respect other people and their beliefs. You don't need to agree with their beliefs to show that respect.

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  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by ALGORYTHM
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4427144.stm so much for 'turning the other cheek' and 'we are all God's children'. In my opinion this guy's rhetoric is as bad as Osama Bin Laden's.
    Every religion has wackos. heh. nuff said.
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  27. #27
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    I just dont see why you guys are ma about?

    If I host you, and you do not follow my TOS (host illegal stuff), then you have a problem, dont come to me.. You didnt listen in the first place.

    Not only christianity, but Islam and Judiasm too. If you don't follow the orders of God, don't expect him to be there for you when you need him.. Thats just plain simple.

    Peace,
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  28. #28
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    writespeak, I think you have it down perfectly - you don't have to agree, but don't trash other religions - that is between them and God.
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  29. #29
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    It's always sad to see people reject God, whether it's an individual or group of voters, and I can understand the disappointment and sadness behind the words that were spoken.

    However, I agree that he (Pat Robertson) should not make such a bold public statement. Often times people speak too quickly, fueled by their emotions and instincts, instead of sitting back taking their time and using their intelligent and skills. Most of us are all guilty of doing that at some point. I certainly am.

    It seems that the older Mr. Robertson gets, the more trouble he has finding the proper words to use on air. They (his followers) really should get the man a spokesperson or public relations specialist to help him out. I'm not a close follower or fan of his, but I really don't think he's a complete nut. I think his heart is often in the right place, but he just has a habit of putting his foot in his mouth.
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  30. #30
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    Pat Robertson is an old, racist, hypocrite fool. Just because he uses God to hide behind doesn't change that.

    He is the worst kind of scum, filling his sleazy pockets by preying on the old and the gullible.
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  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by sasha
    I see no tolerance there.
    Then you are not looking closely enough. Paul tells us the following:

    Romans 12:19-21

    Beloved, never avenge yourselves, but leave it to the wrath of God, for it is written, “Vengeance is mine, I will repay, says the Lord.” 20 To the contrary, “if your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink; for by so doing you will heap burning coals on his head.” 21 Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

    The Bible teaches tolerance, if you are not so full of hate to see it.
    "Arms discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as well as property... Horrid mischief would ensue were the law-abiding deprived of the use of them." - Thomas Paine
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  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by blue27
    Pat Robertson is an old, racist, hypocrite fool. Just because he uses God to hide behind doesn't change that.

    He is the worst kind of scum, filling his sleazy pockets by preying on the old and the gullible.

    blue27, stop holding back. How do you really feel about him?

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  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by trau
    The Bible teaches tolerance, if you are not so full of hate to see it.

    Apparently Robertson was absent the day they taught this in Bible school.
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  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gen-T
    blue27, stop holding back. How do you really feel about him?



    Overall I'm sure he's a great fellow.
    Hell, if he's a personal good friend of George W. he can't be all bad, right?
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  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by derek.bodner
    Hahaha.

    I was more going for the Jonathan Edwards of the Reformation period
    I assume you mean the first President of Princeton who lived about 200 years after the Reformation.

    The comparison to Jonathan Edwards give Pat Robertson far too much credit. Edwards was a theologian and philosopher of the highest order and was, for many years, listed in the Encycolpedia Brittanica as the greatest mind that America ever produced.
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  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by trau

    The Bible teaches tolerance, if you are not so full of hate to see it.
    I would change the above to:

    The Bible teaches intolerance, if you are not so full of faith to see it.

    Exodus 21:17
    "Anyone who curses his father or mother must be put to death."
    Exodus 21:16-18 (in Context) Exodus 21 (Whole Chapter)
    Exodus 22:19
    "Anyone who has sexual relations with an animal must be put to death.
    Exodus 22:18-20 (in Context) Exodus 22 (Whole Chapter)
    Exodus 31:15
    For six days, work is to be done, but the seventh day is a Sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day must be put to death.
    Leviticus 20:10
    " 'If a man commits adultery with another man's wife—with the wife of his neighbor—both the adulterer and the adulteress must be put to death.
    This is just a small sample... there are online bibles and you can search the word death, when I did there was over 20 pages of results.

    I used Judaism and Christianity in the examples above because they're the ones I know... I'm willing to bet there are similar things in the Quran and other holy books.
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  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by J-P
    . . . I used Judaism and Christianity in the examples above because they're the ones I know....
    If you really knew "Christianity", then you'd realise the absolute folly and foolishness in digging up 5,000 yr old Laws designed specifically for the Isrealite Nation, at that specific period in history. Those laws have no relevence for "Christianity". None, zero, zip, nada.
    Quote Originally Posted by trau
    Romans 12:19-21

    Beloved, never avenge yourselves, but leave it to the wrath of God, for it is written, “Vengeance is mine, I will repay, says the Lord.” 20 To the contrary, “if your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink; for by so doing you will heap burning coals on his head.” 21 Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.
    Imagine if the world operated on those principles? Wow. That's radical philosophy, and totally against human nature, but then again, JC was very radical in his teachings, especially with the "love thy enemy" and "turn the other cheek" stuff.
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  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aussie Bob
    If you really knew "Christianity", then you'd realise the absolute folly and foolishness in digging up 5,000 yr old Laws designed specifically for the Isrealite Nation, at that specific period in history. Those laws have no relevence for "Christianity". None, zero, zip, nada.

    How do they have no relevance?
    Christians, especially the religious right, base their lives on the writings of the bible and claim that the bible is infallible.
    They can't have it both ways. You can't just pick and choose the parts of the bible you think should be adhered to.
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  39. #39
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    blue27, laws in the Old Testament were for the Israelites to live by. Once Jesus came to earth (New Testament), these laws did not have to be followed, as his sacrifice on the cross forgave all sins.
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  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by J-P
    I would change the above to:

    The Bible teaches intolerance, if you are not so full of faith to see it.
    That's where I have to disagree with you. The Bible, Talmud and Quran are full of inconsistencies, and you get out of them what you want. A good person will find the good things, an evil one the bad. Just as with the rest of things in life, those that wish to propagate evil will find justification wherever they look, no matter how badly they have to twist something to achieve their goal.
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