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  1. #1
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    1u server first time buiding a rackmount

    1u server first time buiding a rackmount, i will be moving a couple of my shared accts. over to a colo box, plus the company's dedic box to this 1u server i got the case "Antec 1U Rackmount Case 1U26ATX250" now i need a mobo to go in it, was looking through the forum seen a lot of talk about supermicro, but i dont have much of a budget so if i could find a intel 478, mobo prescott ready, that way i could use compoents i already have all i need is a mobo and she up and running

    thx for all the help

    sorry 4 tha noobie questions, we all gotta start some where

  2. #2
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    boy, you can be newbie in building 1U server. But at least, write your sentences properly. Use proper puctuations and sentences structure. You are saying all these in one sentence, and that's hard to read. I would suggest you rewrite this and perhaps somebody will be more than willing to help you.

    Good luck.
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  3. #3
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    Ya i could not understand this either...
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  4. #4
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    I will be building my first 1u server. I currently have a client with a dedicated server who is looking into co-locationing a server. I also have a few other clients with shared accounts, plus a couple of personal sites. I bought a "Antec 1U Rackmount Case 1U26ATX250" to use as my first rackmount server. Now i need a motherboard for the unit. I would like to use a intel prescott (478) motherboard, because I already have extra components that i could use. I don't have a budget i'm doing this with my own money, this isn't a company project.

    I heard supermicro is a really good server motherboard maker.
    Last edited by kruss; 10-21-2005 at 02:31 PM.

  5. #5
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    with all that said I want to move everyone over to a colo server. Mostly because the hosting company doesn't provide the software I want on there managed solutions. If I can make my own colo server then I can pick up the company's websites, plus a couple of shared sites, and still have room for a few personal sites.

    what I need is a few suggestions for a motherboard that will fit into the unit (the antec mentioned above) .

    thank you
    Last edited by kruss; 10-21-2005 at 02:34 PM.

  6. #6
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    Most people here will tell you just don't try it. Personally, I completely disagree (how else are you going to learn?), but be willing to make mistakes and pay the consequences. You will buy parts that don't fit and parts that break, but learn by experience. It will be more costly than you expected.

    I would definitely suggest going with a Tyan or Supermicro motherboard. Those are built for servers and will handle it much better than normal desktop servers...but you pay for it. If you don't have the budget, then just try a normal motherboard. Everyone has different opinions about different motherboards - chaintech has worked well for me so far, but that is by far not the only nor the best motherboard. A quick note that isn't often said, I (and a few other people) have run into problems installing Linux on a motherboard with a VIA chipset. Finally, make sure you have onboard video on whatever motherboard you buy if you are doing a 1U server.

    Cooling: In a 1U, that will be your biggest issue. Watch that you position everything to allow good ventalation.

    There are other common sense issues....be sure you have enough RAM, etc., but if you're brave enough to attempt your own 1U colo, hopefully you know this stuff.

    Last of all....I am by no means the expert here at WHT. Listen to all the other guys more =) Hope I helped a little!
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  7. #7
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    Oh yes, one more thing. Most motherboards will fit, but you will need to buy a low profile fan for whatever CPU that you buy. You can buy them from a lot of places, but off the top of my head I know newegg.com has them (search for 1U fan)
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  8. #8
    If your just looking for a standard MB then get Chaintech MPM800-3 P4 Prescott/PM800/FSB800/DDR400/SATA/A&V&L/MATX Motherboard if your looking for better quality then go with a supermicro or tyan.


  9. #10
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    An ATX motherboard will fit in this case. Make sure it has onboard video and at least 1 onboard LAN port. You will have to purchase a 3rd party CPU cooler. That way you don't use up your 1 PCI riser card right off the bat.
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  10. #11
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    One main concern is the verticle audio ports on most boards. There are a select FEW desktop-type boards that still have horizontal audio.

    I'd suggest the following in best performance to least :

    DFI PS85-BL (Intel 865 chipset, video, realtek 8100C lan, sata ports, 4 x ddr dimms)

    Chaintech MPM800-3 (Via PM800 chipset - horrid..., video, realtek 8100C lan, sata ports, 2 x ddr dimms)

    You can spend roughly $150 or so on an MSI or Intel grade server board (dual lan, etc) which will get you by on a cheaper server-grade board. Or you can go with the ~$160-250 Tyan/Supermicro boards. One note of concern again is some Tyan/Supermicro boards have 24 + 4 pin power connectors. They are backwards compatible to a 20 + 4 pin connector, however to get around it, you usually have to bump the wattage on your power supply to 300W or more from my experience.

    MSI has a decent board, the 9149 MASTER LRM. It should handle everything you want it to, and its a true server-grade board.

    And the very last note. DO NOT use any heat sinks with FANS on them. Always ALWAYS use blower fans. Preferably the ones from Dynatron. Otherwise its a lost cause.

  11. #12
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    First let me thank you all, for your help.

    The other components I spoke of was a P4 Prescot 3gig, 800 fsb and some ddr 400 ram, I dont know if it will fit, gotta get a mobo first to try. I did some trying over the weekend but the onboard sound got in the way so all my socket A boards are out.

    As for the cpu cooler, did you say to just get a heatsink only. Not to use one with a fan mounted on it. I've seen a few places who sale low profile heatsink/fan units.

    So just really need a p4 mobo for around 100$ and I think that will do it.
    Also I was thinking of running MS web server 2k3 anyone had much luck with this.

    thanks again

  12. #13
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    Ok so I had a chance to look at the DFI PS85-BL mobo, I like it a little more then the VIA based board, I've seen the numbers were intel chipsets seem to work a little better then VIA does with Intel procs. Do you think it would be with the extra 35$ for the DFI over the ChainTech board...

    thx

  13. #14
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    chaintech?

    i've had too many of them fail in desktops... stay away!

    as the others said, supermicro or tyan boards... i love the tyan boards, have done ever since the tiger
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  14. #15
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  15. #16
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    I think I will order the DFI board when i get home from work tonight. As for heat sink have you used them in the past and are speaking from exp.

    In any event thanks for all your help.

  16. #17
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    ok, so all my parts are in, I ordered the dfi board and the hsf combo from dynatron, I really hope it just goes together w/o to much trouble.

    Also i bought 1 of thoses anti-static mats for my workbench.

    Any last pointers anyone.

    again thx 4 all the help

    in a lil bit i'll let u know how its running

  17. #18
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    just make sure all the cables are routed properly to avoid cutting off airflow!
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  18. #19
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    wow
    that hsf from dynatron sux
    i screwed it down to the stoppers, posted the board to the bios, temp read out was 199f, i cut the power looked over the board and one of the scews had ripped out of the hole, i guess the springs were to much for the cheap plastic plate.
    its a good thing i got it from newegg, they are really good with there RMAs.

  19. #20
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  20. #21
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    arctic silver 5,

    after i took it apart i handed it to one of my co workers to look at under a mag light and he said it look like platic inside the screw holes.but i checked it again the plate is matal, i guess if want something done right you should do it your self, but i am the one who put it together, and i dont believe i cross threaded it, when i screwed it down i didnt feel the resistence you get when you cross thread something. maybe i just got a bad unit.

    owell RMA here i come.

  21. Quote Originally Posted by kruss
    arctic silver 5,

    after i took it apart i handed it to one of my co workers to look at under a mag light and he said it look like platic inside the screw holes.but i checked it again the plate is matal, i guess if want something done right you should do it your self, but i am the one who put it together, and i dont believe i cross threaded it, when i screwed it down i didnt feel the resistence you get when you cross thread something. maybe i just got a bad unit.

    owell RMA here i come.
    you are not alone!

    as experiences as we are in mounting dyantron stuffs all day long, recently we had quite a few dynatron A51/A71 (for socket 754/939/940) spring-screws ripped off the mounting plate underneath the motherboard. it seems to be either a poor design or quality-control issues from dynatron, not really just some here-n-there isolated incidents ....

  22. #23
    Wow, I'm glad to see I'm not alone. Let me know how the RMA goes, I have killed 2 thus far.

  23. #24
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    NewEgg is pretty good about there RMA's, they gave me a full replacement value, but that didn't include the original shipping or the shipping when i had to send it back. So now i'm out a little more then ten bucks, and i dont have a 1u HSF. The DFI mobo works good in another case and HSF i had sitting around.

    Can someone point me to a good thread on P4 running temps, what is to hot, normal running an all that good jazz....
    thx

    I guess i will be buying another one of dyantron HSF, if this one works out good. Then I may buy more from the company if not then no more from me or my clients.

    Again I want to say thanks for all the great help that is provided here.
    thankz

  24. #25
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    Feb 2005
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    Intel has a list of temp specs for all their CPU's. Google or digging around intels site will turn it up.

    Be sure to burn in the server well before shipping it off to colo. I've seen customers build boxes, make sure they boot, then ship them off only to find they had bad ram or some other component once they started running the machine under load.

    Id have gone for a different choice of motherboard, but otherwise, good luck.

  25. #26
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    Does anyone use Dynatron HSF for P4 prescotts, (800fsb) if so, which one do you suggest. I had a "D3A". Thats the one that broke out the box. I found a link to another modal "D34" both are for the intel p4 3g+, I just dont know which is best/better. someone who has gone through a few can maybe tell me which ones to use.

    what about the Supermicro SNK-P0002, http://www.costcentral.com/proddetai...KP0002/G08355/
    it looks ok, some one else said it was good.

    thx

    Kruss

  26. generally, it's not a good idea to install active cooling for any prescott chip in 1U regardless what cooling manufacturer claims.

    the snk-p0002 is a passive heatsink only w/o cooling fan on top. you must use an true server board in order to arrange passive cooling (big chassis blower + passive heatsink). "desktop" board can't use snk-p0002.

  27. #28
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    Make SURE the audio port isn't a problem, a client bought 9 asus boards and had me remove the on-board audio ports.

    Voided the warranty, but all came out fine. Now hes running into heat problems. 40mm fans are being blocked by the ram. So the CPU fan running hot. trying to find away to cool them better.

    have fun
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  28. again, the only safe, reliable long-term 1U solution for Prescott based, either s478 or s775, is to install passive cooling on true P4 server board such as supermciro P4SCI/P8SCI or tyan S5102-P/S5151. there are some vendors who will install precsott on desktop board, then "hope" the best, we just don't do it.

    nowadays, we only do Athlon64 or Sempron on "desktop" board for budget 1U servers, and totally giving up on any prescott P4's which are at least 50% hotter than A64.

  29. #30
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    Well after searching and gathering info, from google and a lot from here, (thx). The mobo I have will not be able to be passively cooled, the CPU is blocked by the ram slots, they sit the wrong way, (desktop componets) So i'm not sure what to do at this point. At the momment i have a p4 prescott 3.0gig 800fsb proc, the DFI 865 board (see above) the Antec 1U rackmount, and no HSF in sight, I was thinking maybe i could get a new proc maybe a 2.4 gig slower but in a light weight web server do you think 2.4 vs. 3.0 will really make much of a difference anyway.

    If i was to move to a AMD based solution can ya'll make a suggestion for a light weight 1u package, AMD proc, a cheaper serverboard, and the cooling for it.

  30. search eBay and find a socket 478 P4-2.8C or 3.0C (800fsb, 512K L2, HT) which are based on northwood core, and they're as cool as Athlon 64, then you can keep the DFI board and Dynatron active blower fans without worry.

    alternatively, Athlon64 2800/3000 on Gigabyte K8VM800M board stays pretty cooled in 1U with Dyantron A71 or Cooljag E8HC/180° active cooling alone.

    the more we used Cooljag stuffs, the better we like them over Dynatron! Cooljag seems to have better quality and more reliable mini blower.

  31. #32
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    The K8VM800M mobo you suggest has the same problem of the ram slots blocking airflow from the CPU.

    Have you noticed that the Cooljag design looks the same as the Dynatron HSF units, I wonder if there workmanship is any better.

    for a webServer which do think is more important ram or proc. I know the more ram the better, but if I had a P4 2.4 gb with a 1gb of ram, or P4 3.0 gb with a 1gb of ram do you think the 600mzh will make that much difference in performance. I was thinking to get a 2.4 northwood and take the saved cash and get another 512mb of ram. or do it the other way and take the 3gb w/ 1gb of ram adn be done with it.

    thx again

  32. Quote Originally Posted by kruss
    The K8VM800M mobo you suggest has the same problem of the ram slots blocking airflow from the CPU.

    Have you noticed that the Cooljag design looks the same as the Dynatron HSF units, I wonder if there workmanship is any better.

    for a webServer which do think is more important ram or proc. I know the more ram the better, but if I had a P4 2.4 gb with a 1gb of ram, or P4 3.0 gb with a 1gb of ram do you think the 600mzh will make that much difference in performance. I was thinking to get a 2.4 northwood and take the saved cash and get another 512mb of ram. or do it the other way and take the 3gb w/ 1gb of ram adn be done with it.

    thx again
    as long as you use "desktop" board in 1U, you are NOT counting on the airflow from mid-chassis blowers or 40mm fans to cool CPU. so, whether the RAM is in the way or not, it doesnt really matter that much. the CPU cooling on desktop board is wholly depending on the "active" cooling, that's why you need a CPU yielding as little heat as possible. Athlon 64 or northwoods P4 are good candidates and they stay very cool with active cooling alone. otherwise, you go all out and use expensive server board, such as supermicro P4SCI s478 or Tyan S2865 s939 board, both hardly a "budget" board to be considered in a "budget" server.

    if you source the northwood P4's on eBay where is just aboub the only place you can buy northwood P4 nowadays, you will find there is not much cost difference between 2.4B/2.4C and 2.8C/3.0C. sometimes, if you were lucky, you could find someone selling 3.0C cheaper than 2.4B on eBay.

    also, beware of the 2.4A (1M L2) which is 2.4Ghz but still is prescott based with high-heat.

  33. #34
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    ok i get what you are saying.

    but part of my question was really about performance. Do you (webhostingtalk) think that a web server w/ a proc of 2.4 vs. 3.0 both with a 1gb of ram, do you really think that the 600 mzh of CPU power will make a lot of difference or not that much.

    content dependent;
    php mysql driven Ecom site with 400 or less unique visitors
    (x4) blog sites,
    probably 12-20 static html sites.
    a few asp/ms sql/vb.net sites, forums, blogs, sites, Ecom.

    that would be some of the stuff the web server would host.
    so would 1gb of ram an a 2.4 or a 3.0 be best or would it really not make that much of a difference.

    thx

  34. #35
    There hasn't been any activity on this thread for a while, but I'd just like to throw in that I recently built a server in the Antec 1U26ATX250 with a Tyan S2850G2NR and an Opteron 242 with vantec low-profile heatsink/fan. The ram is situated perpendicularly to the mid-chassis fans, so airflow is unobstructed from the front of the case, over the cpu and out the back. That is to say, airflow WOULD be unobstructed if I hadn't installed sata drives in the center floppy bay and the 5.25 cd-rom bay, in addition to two drives in the intended bays on the left of the case. Still, it's been operating continuously without any problems for the past two months despite poor ventilation, albeit under a very light load. I don't necessarily recommend this particular arrangement, though; I just wanted to suggest the Tyan S2850G2NR as a solid AMD board for this chassis. This combination will also accomodate an 3ware 9500s raid card, although it gets very difficult to access some of the motherboard's led headers.
    Anyway, good luck.

  35. #36
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    telharmonium thx for the reply,

    you wouldnt happen to know of a entry level server board for 478 socket, would yea.

    the ram to cpu direction i have found is very important...
    I may end up just getting a new mobo/proc combo and make the other setup i got into my new desktop PC, I do know that if I do get a new board/chip It will not be a P4 Prescot, them suckers are way to hoTT to be in a 1u Rack.

    I've havent really kept up with AMD lately though, whats a good not to costly AMD proc that would be good for a web server, its gotta idle around 20 c, or lower.

    Intel need to do something about there Thermal output or they are gonna loss what ever market share they got in the near future

  36. s2850 (single s940) has long been discontinued, and why did you put a 242 on it? it's intended for single opteron 1xx.

    the CPU socket on s2850 is too far from mid-chassis fans to arrange passive cooling, so you must use active cooling.

    using an active cpu cooler with top-mount fan is really not recommended for 1U because usually there is so little room left between the bottom of chassis cover and the top of cooling fan. either the hot-air from CPU can't get out, or the cool air can't get in depending on the CPU fan is blowing up or down. you really prefer mini-blower type such as dynatron A71 or Cooljag E8GC. hot-air from mini-blower can exhaust to the rear panel instead of blowing against chassis top cover.

    I do recommend you to change out the Vantec with Cooljag or Dynatron asap. we have seen too many 1U cooling fans toasted in the past, and totally swithed to mini-blower type if we need to install active cooling.

    the CPU socket on the new Tyan S2865g2nr board (s939) is right in front of mid chassis fan, and it's much ideal for passive cooling!
    Last edited by [email protected]; 12-15-2005 at 11:03 AM.

  37. #38
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    hey cwl
    you wouldnt know a link of someone who is retailing the Cooljag HSF products, I did a search last week or so, and couldnt find one. I found some good reviews and stuff but not-a-one retailer.

    thx


  38. #40
    Hey, what do you know, the S2850 HAS been discontinued! Whatever, I went with it because its compatibility with FreeBSD's AMD64 branch was well documented, not because it was cutting edge. As for the processor, it's part of a vaguely defined possible dual-processor upgrade path. I would also recomend using a blower; my system would have a Dynatron, but the vantec was all Fry's had the day I was building it and I sort of haven't changed it yet.
    Sorry Kruss, I don't really have any actual advice, this is my first 1u, too (obviously). I will say that the Antec has been a good case; well ventilated and easy to work in.

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