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  1. #1

    Google bans whole servers. Is it true?

    I have heard so many people say on various forums that if you do something on your site that Google does not like (ie. Black Hat SEO) then Google will ban not only the domain but also the IP address of the site. Seeing how most people cannot afford to buy dedicated hosting, it seems to me that one big factor in finding a host is whether or not the shared IP address they assign to their server on which they sell you space is banned or not by Google.

    So if it's true that Google will go ahead and ban a whole IP address not taking into consideration that possibly thousands of innocent sites would suffer, I have 2 questions...

    1. Given that by banning IP addresses would result in hundreds and even thousands of innocent website bannings, could it be that this whole thing about Google banning IPs is just a lie (a rumor)?

    2. If it isn't a lie and it's very true, then is there a way to find out if your server's IP address is banned by google?

    3. If it is not a lie, do you think it's posible that buying your own IP address for $2.00/mo/domain will resolve the problem even though the site is technically still being served from the server with the banned IP address?

  2. #2
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    I would assume it is a lie because of reason #1, but I am not sure.

  3. #3
    first, I never heared about that .. and I see there is no reason for google to block an IP, may be domain name but not IP for sure.

    If google will block IPs, then usually he will block whole C class of IPs (like AOL do) so buying dedicated IP will not help.

    once again I do not think this will ever happend.

  4. #4
    That's what I thought too. But the thing is, I also hear that submitting asite to Google too frequently will get you banned. Yet, if this is true then it would be too wasy to get a competitor banned form google. Just submit his URLs every chance you get.

    It's really hard to figure out what is true and what is a lie as far as what get's you banned form google.

  5. #5
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    I was on a server about a year ago where every site on the same IP (about 100-ish) was removed from G. A couple of weeks later those same sites were removed from Yahoo as well.

    Those sites that moved to a different host or IP started to get back their Google traffic after about 6 months. With Yahoo, the only ones who got their traffic back (to the best of my knowledge) were the ones who changed IP's/servers AND contacted Yahoo directly for reinclusion.

    I just dumped my site and started over. Cost me about $2K a month in revenue, and I personally will never share an IP again.

  6. #6
    So what do you do. DO you pay for dedicated hosting or do you just buy a dedicated IP?

  7. #7
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    Originally posted by mistydd
    It's really hard to figure out what is true and what is a lie as far as what get's you banned form google.
    You just need to look for the info in the right places.

    http://www.google.co.uk/intl/en/webmasters/facts.html


    Fiction: A website will be removed from Google's index if it is "over-submitted."
    Fact: We do not require submission nor do we penalise sites for "over-submission." You are free to submit as often as you wish. However, given the nature of our inclusion process, your time is better spent improving the content and links of your site.

  8. #8
    Great to hear. Now I wonder why they didn't address the issue of banning/penalizing whole servers.

  9. #9
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    Originally posted by mistydd
    So what do you do. DO you pay for dedicated hosting or do you just buy a dedicated IP?
    As for me, I simply changed hosts and pay a couple of bucks for an IP. My sites don't warrant their own server, although I will move to a VPS solution in time.

  10. #10
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    Hi mistydd,

    You bring up a very important question. Banning by IP by search engines.

    Now days, hosting on shared IP's are common place, and search engines had to change to overcome banning tons of sites for one bad domain hosted on that IP.
    It used to be that all sites were on shared IPs, then as the net began to really expload, hosts started offering individual IPs for every site. At one time it gave better rankings because it looked like you had a dedicated server to the search engines.

    That has all changed, and it has been changed for several years. Search engines are not "Supposed" to ban a site by IP any longer. They are supposed to ban by domain name.

    This could be a recent rumor started by someone who is on an IP that is having a lot of problems with people spamming the search engines with useless sites, just to promote one site. If this is an issue, it should be isolated and that one IP could be banned for abuse reasons, but it is not supposed to be all bannings by IPs. They know that just wont work now days, so they don't do it.

    I am sure they do ban an IP here and there, but it is not the norm.

    Could getting your own IP through your host stop the problem. Well, if your at the host that has the problem, you may want to look elsewhere just to be sure you get a good IP.

    As for looking up a banned IP. I am not sure if there is any way. Most search engines will not answer you if you sent an email to ask, and there is surely no list published that you can check.

    TIm L
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  11. #11
    google is the no1 search engine, they can affort to do this

  12. #12
    Originally posted by 1968
    As for me, I simply changed hosts and pay a couple of bucks for an IP. My sites don't warrant their own server, although I will move to a VPS solution in time.
    But VPS is still shared hosting. You are merely paying more because they have a lower limit on how many accounts/sites are hosted on one server. So VPS is, in all actuality, shared hosting.

  13. #13
    Originally posted by superiorhost
    Hi mistydd,

    ...just to be sure you get a good IP.

    As for looking up a banned IP. I am not sure if there is any way. Most search engines will not answer you if you sent an email to ask, and there is surely no list published that you can check.

    TIm L
    Well, that's the whole point for my thread. If there is no way to find out if a certain IP was banned by Google then it seems that it is a hit or miss for the site owner. I could get a hosting account, get my site up, spend a lot of time time on SEO...just to find out I can't get ranked on Google becasue the whole server was banned. Of course, I'll never know for sure but since I never get indexed, I assume that and move to another host. SO now you get a new host and therefore a new server and IP address and we start all over again.

    That server's IP is banned too.

    All this time goes by and a year wasted. I mean, let's face it. You gotta give it at least 6 months before you can conclude that perhaps the reason for Google not indexing you is becasue the server's IP is banned.

  14. #14
    It seems to me, as this becomes more commonplace (if it is true to begin with) then one part of a hosting provider's day-to-day operations will include monitoring sites to see if they are engaging in activity that ticks Google off.

    This means that prices go up for hosting fees to recover time spent monitoring sites so as to not get a whole server banned.

    Eventually, there must be a service that will tell you if a server is banned because it will be worthless for most people to get a hosting account on a server that is banned by the biggest SE on the planet. It becomes a major selling point for the hosts that do not have any banned IPs and who are very diligent in banning accounts that use "Google-UNfriendly" tactics to get ranked.

  15. #15
    Just an FYI, some hosts will give you dedicated IPs on a virtual server.

    You share the server, not the IPs

  16. #16
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    Originally posted by mistydd
    It seems to me, as this becomes more commonplace (if it is true to begin with) then one part of a hosting provider's day-to-day operations will include monitoring sites to see if they are engaging in activity that ticks Google off.

    This means that prices go up for hosting fees to recover time spent monitoring sites so as to not get a whole server banned.

    Eventually, there must be a service that will tell you if a server is banned because it will be worthless for most people to get a hosting account on a server that is banned by the biggest SE on the planet. It becomes a major selling point for the hosts that do not have any banned IPs and who are very diligent in banning accounts that use "Google-UNfriendly" tactics to get ranked.
    The major search engines will not ban an IP address from their index unless it is under extreme circumstances. You are maing this situation out to be common-place but it is not, I have personally never heard of a shared hosting provider's IP address being blacklisted from Google. (Not in the last x years anyway). Trust me, if this was a common occurance then you would have more than a few posts here asking if it does happen.

    As for a service to do this, that will never happen unless all of the search engines come together to create such a service. If the search engines ban an IP address, do you not think it would be counter productive to tell you about the ban and let you check which IP's were not banned?

  17. #17
    Originally posted by FLH-Wullie
    The major search engines will not ban an IP address from their index unless it is under extreme circumstances. You are maing this situation out to be common-place but it is not, I have personally never heard of a shared hosting provider's IP address being blacklisted from Google. (Not in the last x years anyway). Trust me, if this was a common occurance then you would have more than a few posts here asking if it does happen.

    As for a service to do this, that will never happen unless all of the search engines come together to create such a service. If the search engines ban an IP address, do you not think it would be counter productive to tell you about the ban and let you check which IP's were not banned?
    Well, forst of all, let me say that i am not saying they do or they don't ban whole servers. That is why I posted this thread

    Secondly, it isn't true that the SE will have to come together to make up this service as a private, non-SE related company could do it.

    After all, Whois.sc can tell you if a domain is blacklisted. Whois.sc is not a SE or related to any SE. They are separate from the SEs.

    Who's to say they cannot tell you if a certain IP was banned by acertain SE? AMybe a service like spamhaus will arise to make this possible.

  18. #18
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    Originally posted by mistydd

    After all, Whois.sc can tell you if a domain has engaged in spam or has gotten blacklisted. Whois.sc is not a SE or related to any SE. They are separate from the SEs.
    There is a major flaw in this comparision. The RBLs do actually provide this information, the search engines do not. You have basically just backed up my case that the SEs would have to offer this information for it to be accurate in any sense.

  19. #19
    Originally posted by FLH-Wullie
    As for a service to do this, that will never happen unless all of the search engines come together to create such a service. If the search engines ban an IP address, do you not think it would be counter productive to tell you about the ban and let you check which IP's were not banned?
    NOt at all. They do not have to display the IPs that are NOT banned, only the ones that ARE banned.

    As I said before, IF, IF, IF it is true that SEs ban whole servers, this service will be much needed as people will want to check out their new hosting account's IP address to see if it is worth setting up shop there. Why spend 6 months to a year jsut to make a half-witted assumption? A service would be very much needed and there will very much be a large market for it.

  20. #20
    Originally posted by FLH-Wullie
    There is a major flaw in this comparision. The RBLs do actually provide this information, the search engines do not. You have basically just backed up my case that the SEs would have to offer this information for it to be accurate in any sense.
    Well, I assumed that IP info was just as public as domain registration info. I guess you are saying that it isn'?

  21. #21
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    For what it's worth, I do not believe that the SE's ban whole servers, but through my experience, I do believe that individual IP's can be and are, on rare occasions, banned.

    I've read that the SE's can block entire C-blocks of IP's, but I don't believe that this happens. The server I was on had a few sites on other IP's, and these sites were unaffected.


    But VPS is still shared hosting. You are merely paying more because they have a lower limit on how many accounts/sites are hosted on one server. So VPS is, in all actuality, shared hosting.
    Yes, of course you share a server with other sites in a VPS environment. There are quite a few differences beyond that similarity however.

  22. #22
    Originally posted by GotWebHost
    Just an FYI, some hosts will give you dedicated IPs on a virtual server.

    You share the server, not the IPs
    Right, but if you look earlier in the thread, someone stated that getting a dedicated IP but hosting oin a shared account will do you no good. I'm not saying he is right, just stating that others obviously have a different view/knowledge than you do.

  23. #23
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    Originally posted by mistydd
    NOt at all. They do not have to display the IPs that are NOT abnned, only the ones that ARE banned.
    So in essence, if they list the IPs that are banned, you know by checking an IP and it isn't listed that it isn't banned. What exactly is the difference?

    Originally posted by mistydd

    As I said before, IF, IF, IF it is true that SEs ban whole servers, this service will be much needed as people will want to check out their new hosting account's IP address to see if it is worth setting up shop there. Why spend 6 months to a year jsut to make a half-witted assumption? A service would be very much needed and there will very much be a large market for it.
    Everything is based on this "If" yet you have absolutely no evidence to suggest that this does happen. There is absolutely no need for any service of this type because there is no demand for it. Sure you have the RBLs, but do you think if there were only say 1000 blacklisted IPs out there then you would still have them and they would be so commonly used?

    Banning of an IP address by a major search engine is not a common occurance. As time goes by any IPs that are *possibly* banned just now will be dropped as the technology finds other ways to catch those sites that are banned. You will never ever have a point where a huge number of shared IP addresses are banned from the search engines because for them that would be like jumping back years and wasting years of technology.

  24. #24
    Well, I'd hate to hijack my own thread, but can anyone answer this question...

    I got a new reseller hosting account from HostGator. I got a dedicated IP for on eof my domains. The IP of the server I am on is 70.85.145.98. My dedicated IP is 70.85.145.99:443. I never saw this before. I mean, the ":443" part.

    Is this really considered a bonafide dedicated IP or is it just set up in a way that it acts like one?

    The last host I used, I had a dedicated IP there, too, and the IP was completely different from the server's IP and there was no ":xxx" part.

  25. #25
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    Originally posted by mistydd
    Well, I'd hate to hijack my own thread, but can anyone answer this question...

    I got a new reseller hosting account from HostGator. I got a dedicated IP for on eof my domains. The IP of the server I am on is 70.85.145.98. My dedicated IP is 70.85.145.99:443. I never saw this before. I mean, the ":443" part.

    Is this really considered a bonafide dedicated IP or is it just set up in a way that it acts like one?

    The last host I used, I had a dedicated IP there, too, and the IP was completely different from the server's IP and there was no ":xxx" part.
    The 443 part is the port and is the port used for SSL, omit that port and you will hit port 80 as normal.

  26. #26
    Originally posted by FLH-Wullie
    So in essence, if they list the IPs that are banned, you know by checking an IP and it isn't listed that it isn't banned. What exactly is the difference?

    Well, space for one. It would be a much smaller task to list all banned IPs only rather than listing ALL IPs and indicating whether they are banned or not. It would be a smaller task and therefore cost less money to maintain.



    Everything is based on this "If" yet you have absolutely no evidence to suggest that this does happen.
    Again, you are assuming I am saying that it is true or false. I am saying neither. That is why I even started this thread. (I wonder how many times I'm gonna have to say that? ).

    But please remember that if you read this whole thread, there are people that say that it is in fact true that SEs ban whole servers (rather the shared IP of a server) and they know because it has happened ot them.

  27. #27
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    http://interviews.slashdot.org/inter...9.shtml?tid=95

    5) Google and IP address.
    by Anonymous Coward

    Why in this day and age does google continue to penalize sites that are virtual hosted? With ip addresses becoming harder to get/justify every day why does google discount the relevance of links that don't come from a unique ip address. Please don't just deny it, I think the Internet community deserves an explanation.

    Craig:

    I can't just deny it? What are my other choices? [] Actually, Google handles virtually hosted domains and their links just the same as domains on unique IP addresses. If your ISP does virtual hosting correctly, you'll never see a difference between the two cases. We do see a small percentage of ISPs every month that misconfigure their virtual hosting, which might account for this persistent misperception--thanks for giving me the chance to dispel a myth!

  28. #28
    I was just reminded that Google did ban Godaddy a couple years ago, but we're not sure if they did it by server or Class C.

  29. #29
    Originally posted by mistydd


    But please remember that if you read this whole thread, there are people that say that it is in fact true that SEs ban whole servers (rather the shared IP of a server) and they know because it has happened ot them.
    I think you should realize that there is a difference between fact and presumptions.

    I have no doubts that there are people that think thye were banned because they were on a virtual server, when in reality it was something else.

  30. #30
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    Originally posted by GotWebHost
    I think you should realize that there is a difference between fact and presumptions.

    I have no doubts that there are people that think thye were banned because they were on a virtual server, when in reality it was something else.
    Yep, most likely because they used some stupid method to try and trick the engines and got caught. If anyone here has had their IP banned and knows this for sure, then I'm sure they can give us some background into the issue.

  31. #31
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    Originally posted by GotWebHost
    I think you should realize that there is a difference between fact and presumptions.

    I have no doubts that there are people that think thye were banned because they were on a virtual server, when in reality it was something else.
    I assumed it was an IP ban since only the sites on this particular IP were banned, while other sites on the same server but different IP's, were untouched. I'm also assuming banned because the sites did not show up on google or yahoo even for their own names. Plus, on yahoo, sites that applied for reinclusion were reinstated.

  32. #32
    Originally posted by mistydd

    After all, Whois.sc can tell you if a domain is blacklisted. Whois.sc is not a SE or related to any SE. They are separate from the SEs.
    Just clarifying that being blacklisted by Spamhaus and a SE are totally different things, and one does not effect the other.

  33. #33
    2. If it isn't a lie and it's very true, then is there a way to find out if your server's IP address is banned by google?

    Just some thought: check the sites from your shared IP address. If there is at least one using AdSense and Adsense is working on that site that means the server is not blacklisted.


    Regards,
    Razvan


    - - -

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  34. #34
    I feel google block the domain name only, not the ip address.

  35. #35
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    I wouldn't put anything past Google. They removed my site from their search engine because a woman who didn't pay me for the domains SAID she had a copyright, she didn't. They removed me anyway. It was gone. Yahoo. MSN, etc didn't remove me.

  36. #36
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    From the SEO resources I've read - granted so much of SEO is speculation rather than solid fact - the search engines ban domains, not IP's.

    I have, however, read some very interesting articles relating to other ways some people think IP's are viewed. For example, a lot of people believe inbound links from a different class C are much more valuable than those within the same as your own site.
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  37. #37
    The ranking algorithms that involve excluding links on the same class C are available in patent applications you can read at uspto.gov by Google. It would make sense that at least something close to what they patented is used in their actual algorithms, which is the reason for that SEO practice.

    As far as banning IPs, I would not be surprised if IP did it on a rare basis. If they have an individual putting up many sites on many domains (not too rare) and using them all in an effort to trick Google into ranking low quality pages high, the easiest thing for Google to do would be to ban the IP those sites are on, instead of every individual domain, given the person has many and is probably willing to use more.

    It has side effects if other people happen to be sharing that IP, yes... but I bet it still happens.

    I assign a separate IP to each site I value search engine traffic for.
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  38. #38
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    Originally posted by GotWebHost
    Just an FYI, some hosts will give you dedicated IPs on a virtual server.

    You share the server, not the IPs
    or also even with shared hosting you could pay about an extra 2 a dollars month for a dedicated ip
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  39. #39
    From my experience:
    If a given IP causes more trouble than being usefull, I'd ban it without thinking. There are servers that aren't in the webhosting business, but respond quite agresively when pinged on port 80 (or any other port for that matter).

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