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  1. #1

    Unhappy Need Dedicated Under 600 a month

    I currently have the following with Liquidweb:

    2000 GB Premium Multi-Homed Bandwidth
    (1000in + 1000out)
    Dual Xeon 2.66GHZ Hyperthreaded
    2GB DDR Registered ECC
    120GB 7200RPM SATA / 8MB Cache
    120GB IDE Backup Drive
    Linux - CentOS 4
    Cpanel Fully Manage

    The current plan is 300 per month for this hosting. BUT I have a large game site that has been exceeding the bandwith (Mysite is using 1400GB) at liquidweb causing me to pay 800 dollars per month. This is not the only problem I have. About once a week my site is visited by over 1000 school kids at 12 noon. every week on this day at this time the Apache will crash on my site causing over 1000 angry school kids. Every week at this time I have to call Liquidweb to fix the problem. LiquidWeb is VERY nice and I love there service BUT this happens every week and the school is going to stop using my site if I don't fix this problem. The load on the site is not a problem...maybe it's because all the kids login to the site at once? I don't know...but anyway I need it fixed. I'm currently thinking about using the service listed below at

    Site: http://www.steadfastnetworks.com/

    Dual 2.66 GHz Intel Xeon Processors
    120 GB 7200 RPM IDE Hard Drive
    1 GB Registered ECC DDR SDRAM
    Unmetered 10 Mbit/sec port
    Silver Management
    Remote Reboot Port
    $449.95 per month | $49.95 Setup
    Availability: 1 Server Available

    Can someone that know about hosting please give me some advice on what I should do? Please tell me what is 10 Mbit/sec port? should I swich to this? What should I switch to?


    Thank you VERY VERY MUCH

    PS liquidweb is a great company with great people and I'm happy with them..I just need to fix some problem.

  2. #2
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    Steadfast Networks is an excellent company. I currently have a VPS from them, and have yet to be let down. Out of the 5 months I have been using them I have only had 1 day where their network experienced a bit of packet loss (about 6 hours out of that day). Their support staff is quick, smart, and professional. They also have great prices.

    Good luck,

  3. #3
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    Well, if your site is falling over, you obviously don't want to downgrade the amount of RAM you have in the server (the Steadfast server has 1GB and your current server has 2GB.)

    Often, when our customers encounter this sort of situation and the site that is using a lot of bandwidth is MySQL-dependent, we'll recommend a separate server housing MySQL only. You actually don't even need a separate control panel for the MySQL server, which causes it to be a bit cheaper.

    A similar setup which a fair amount of our customers have is as follows:

    Web Server w/ 2 Ethernet cards (this would be your dual Xeon server)
    At least 2GB RAM
    However much hard drive space you need (I'd recommnd doing RAID-1 on the hard drives and then backing up to a separate server; I don't understand this nonsense of "a backup drive" -- it really doesn't protect you in a lot of situations.)
    Control panel

    Then, on a 192.168.x.x network, you'd have a separate server (probably at least a P4 and maybe a dual Xeon), again with a minimum of 2GB RAM. This server doesn't need a control panel since it's only running MySQL, and the whole setup is more secure since your most valuable data (MySQL databases) is housed on a server without a direct connection to the Internet.

    This setup is, of course, assuming your websites are MySQL-dependent. If they're not, examine what's taking up the most resources on the server, and see if you can offload that to a separate server as described above. Images and video downloads should be fairly easy to offload in a similar way; for instance, images.yoursite.com on a separate server.

    Hope this helps,
    -Erica
    Erica Douglass, Founder, Simpli Hosting, Inc.
    I founded Simpli Hosting, and sold it in 2007 to Silicon Valley Web Hosting after over 6 years in the business.
    Now I'm blogging at erica.biz!

  4. #4
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    Indeed, doing so would be downgrading your server spec, which I highly doubt it would help your site in any way.

  5. #5
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    Steadfast has the option to add an extra gig of RAM for $250 straight setup fee. It would also be in your favor to add another drive on your Steadfast box.

    Good luck,

  6. #6
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    why not get two unmetered servers with a bit lower spec and do a load balance? i know theplanet offer load balance and ev1 too.

    i think unmetered and load balance will be the answer. instead getting just one server.

  7. #7
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    I agree with jt2377 - unmetered is probably the way to go.

  8. #8
    Originally posted by Simpli-Erica
    Well, if your site is falling over, you obviously don't want to downgrade the amount of RAM you have in the server (the Steadfast server has 1GB and your current server has 2GB.)
    -Erica
    Thanks Erica,
    Yes of couse I will keep the 2gig of ram...But can you tell me about how much all the stuff in your post will cost...roughly. I'm a new booty to this.

    PS my site does use alot of mysql
    Last edited by registercheaper; 10-15-2005 at 10:44 PM.

  9. #9
    Originally posted by jt2377
    why not get two unmetered servers with a bit lower spec and do a load balance? i know theplanet offer load balance and ev1 too.

    i think unmetered and load balance will be the answer. instead getting just one server.
    Thanks for your info
    I don't know what a load balance server is...I will do my research (google) now on load balance servers.

  10. #10
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    If the machine is properly optimized something along these lines should be exactly what youwould need

    Dual Xeon 2.8ghz w/ht (1mb cache)
    2 gb ram
    2 x 1xx drives (s-ata is preferable)

    It sounds like you are suffering from a limitation of resources in some form. It could be a poor mysql configuration that is driving memory consumption out of control.

    Generally this is something that managed services would monitor, analyze and make recomendations on changes.

    You should be able to find a truely managed xeon with 10mbps for a fair amount under your $600 budget.

    Also, since it sounds like you are getting large bursts of visitors a 10mbps capped solution is not for you. You'd want to get something such as 3,300gb on a 100mbps burstable port.

  11. #11
    Originally posted by WireSix
    If the machine is properly optimized something along these lines should be exactly what youwould need

    Dual Xeon 2.8ghz w/ht (1mb cache)
    2 gb ram
    2 x 1xx drives (s-ata is preferable)

    It sounds like you are suffering from a limitation of resources in some form. It could be a poor mysql configuration that is driving memory consumption out of control.
    I contacted support and they said it was because I had a limit on my connections of 150 (whatever that means) and I was doing much more than that. They increased my connections to 500 recently. I will see if that works next week when the school logs in.
    Thanks

  12. #12
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  13. #13
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    Originally posted by registercheaper
    I contacted support and they said it was because I had a limit on my connections of 150 (whatever that means) and I was doing much more than that. They increased my connections to 500 recently. I will see if that works next week when the school logs in.
    Thanks
    What they meant by that is; Only 150 people could simultaneously connect and use the site (or most likely the mySQL database). Now 500 people can do that.

    I suggest jt2377's idea also. (Load balance)
    GeeksGather - Undergoing redevelopment. Stand by.

  14. #14
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    Originally posted by ImageTutorials
    What they meant by that is; Only 150 people could simultaneously connect and use the site (or most likely the mySQL database). Now 500 people can do that.

    I suggest jt2377's idea also. (Load balance)
    I love how everyone that doesn't understand the problem simply assumes that by throwing hardware at the situation will resolve the problem. That is the absolute worst thing you can do.

    First someone needs to do a detailed analysis of why your site is slow.

    In this case a max connections of 150 in apache would bring it to a halt with any reasonable amount of traffic. How many threads/servers are running? what is min/max? is keepalive on or off? what is the timeouts? how many requests per child? Apache 1.3.x or 2.0.x. What is your my.cnf like, what is your database like... is it primarily read or heavy read/write.

    Just adding more b/w or load balancing doesn't really solve anything.

  15. #15
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    I would just like to note that the Interworx control panel supports load balancing by default, and may be a good option for such a situation. We have been quite impressed with their product since we started using it several months ago.
    Karl Zimmerman - Steadfast: Managed Dedicated Servers and Premium Colocation
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  16. #16
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    Have you actually discussed an upgrade with Liquidweb?

    It seems to me they must have a configuration that would suit you better and I am sure would prefer to keep their customer. I also agree with Wiresix. Liquidweb has a good reputation and your happy with them. Ask them to make some recommendations on permanent tuning and if necessary with upgraded hardware. It seems that the issue is simply that you have bandwith overages to deal with as well as definetely some tuning.

    If you prefer to deal with external server management there are many to choose from who can help you. My fear is you simply take a configuration thats faster without looking at things and sure you have more cpu as an example but then you find you were never cpu bound.
    Can't we all just get along

  17. #17
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    Originally posted by Sigmaservers
    Have you actually discussed an upgrade with Liquidweb?

    It seems to me they must have a configuration that would suit you better and I am sure would prefer to keep their customer. I also agree with Wiresix. Liquidweb has a good reputation and your happy with them. Ask them to make some recommendations on permanent tuning and if necessary with upgraded hardware. It seems that the issue is simply that you have bandwith overages to deal with as well as definetely some tuning.

    If you prefer to deal with external server management there are many to choose from who can help you. My fear is you simply take a configuration thats faster without looking at things and sure you have more cpu as an example but then you find you were never cpu bound.

    Exactly,

    I deal with customers daily that have been told they need to "upgrade" and think they need some dual xeon with 4gb ram when all it takes is a minimal tweek of their configuration.

  18. #18
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    Originally posted by WireSix
    I love how everyone that doesn't understand the problem simply assumes that by throwing hardware at the situation will resolve the problem. That is the absolute worst thing you can do.

    First someone needs to do a detailed analysis of why your site is slow.

    In this case a max connections of 150 in apache would bring it to a halt with any reasonable amount of traffic. How many threads/servers are running? what is min/max? is keepalive on or off? what is the timeouts? how many requests per child? Apache 1.3.x or 2.0.x. What is your my.cnf like, what is your database like... is it primarily read or heavy read/write.

    Just adding more b/w or load balancing doesn't really solve anything.
    he stated he paid $800 for extra bw. so...you think you can reduce the bw useage by tweaking the code? he already went above the bw allocated to him. he can get two load balance unmetered servers for $800.

  19. #19
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    Originally posted by jt2377
    he stated he paid $800 for extra bw. so...you think you can reduce the bw useage by tweaking the code? he already went above the bw allocated to him. he can get two load balance unmetered servers for $800.

    and that does nothing to solve his problem of the site crawling.

    I wasn't addressing the b/w issues. But yes tweaking the configuration can drop b/w usage. mod_gzip would make a huge difference if it's a forum, text, or anything similar.

  20. #20
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    Originally posted by WireSix
    and that does nothing to solve his problem of the site crawling.

    I wasn't addressing the b/w issues. But yes tweaking the configuration can drop b/w usage. mod_gzip would make a huge difference if it's a forum, text, or anything similar.
    "Just adding more b/w or load balancing doesn't really solve anything."

    mod_gzip may not work. i know some of dynmaic content can't be compress at real time.

    with unmetered server at least he won't have to worry about going over his allocated bw.

    edit: he said game...if i'm not mistaking his site is running some kind of game that got a lot of students playing after school.

    i believe two unmertered load balance servers will take care of his traffic/bw problem.

  21. #21
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    I'd say two lower end Dual Opterons (242's probably) on a shared 10mbit line (between the two boxes) would do fantastically.

    Unfortunately your budget is a little tight though!
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  22. #22
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    Seems like we have two separate issues here. One is the server crashing under high load and the second is the price for the bandwidth.

    You should tackle them as two different issues.

    You server should really be able to handle your current load. I recommend you find an expert at tuning MySQL and Apache for this problem. I'll bet an expert can tweak your settings to support the peak times. If not, the expert can certainly recommend what additional resources you need (like more RAM, another server, etc.).

    As for the bandwidth costs, you can tackle that problem in two ways. First, you can look into ways to minimize the bandwidth you are currently using (turning on gzip compression is just one possibility). You really have to understand what you are using the bandwidth for like how much is for serving pages and how much is for images. If downloading images is a problem, you might consider getting a cheap server with its own bandwidth allotment to serve up the images.

    Second, if you can't fit in your current 1TB limitation after taking whatever steps to minimize the use of bandwidth, you should probably contact your current provider to see what kind of deal they can get you for the bandwidth you do need. You can also shop around for a provider that will give you the bandwidth you need at a price you are willing to pay. Since your site has high traffic times, you should find out what your peak bandwidth needs are. Is a 10 Mbps port going to be too limiting? Do you need a burstable 100 Mbps port?

    The point is that you must figure out exactly what your bandwidth needs are and then go shopping. Moving to a new provider can be a pain so if you are satisfied with your current provider except for these issues, you really should see if they can come up with a solution for you, even while you shop around.
    Kevin, The Walrus

  23. #23
    In my opinion i think that Apache is swapping too many of requests when those school kids are connecting to your server at once. I think it's just the RAM which you need to double to fix the problem.

    But let's do this before at least I comment any further.

    Connet to your server and execute this command and post the results here...

    # ab -n 200 -c 200 -w http://yourdomainname:80/

  24. #24
    Originally posted by ipower
    In my opinion i think that Apache is swapping too many of requests when those school kids are connecting to your server at once. I think it's just the RAM which you need to double to fix the problem.

    But let's do this before at least I comment any further.

    Connet to your server and execute this command and post the results here...

    # ab -n 200 -c 200 -w http://yourdomainname:80/
    Hello sir,
    where would I insert that command? is that cron or ssh. I tried using cron and ssh with that command and I did not get any results...I'm not as knowledgeable as you are about commands....sorry

  25. #25
    use ssh and connect to your box.. after getting connected, type that command on the prompt. This would look something like this...

    [root@sever root]# ab -n 200 -c 200 -w http://www.mydomain.com:80/

    you can also just type 'ab' at the prompt to see if you get anything on the screen...!

    This is Apache benchmark tool and can tell you how many results can your Apache Environment is capable of serving. Please do not hesitate to ask further questions. I will be glad to help. Thx

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