Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 40 of 56
  1. #1

    PHP 5 supporting host

    It's shocking how many hosts don't support php5, even in CGI mode. I can understand that they stay with 4 for module mode, but it's trivially easy to install php 5 in CGI mode so that you can write php apps with the ".php5" extension, alongside php 4 in module mode with the .php extension. So you can gradually learn/upgrade to php 5 when it becomes the norm..

    Anyway, most hosts are smart enough to figure that out, does anyone have host recomendations for that? Looking for a shared account, nothing fancy or special. Normally I'd go with pair.com but they're kind of pricey now by comparison.

    Thanks,

    rw

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    New York City
    Posts
    7,391
    Hi,

    The main reason most hosts are not doing this yet is because they do not want to cause any server instability or issues for their current clients on their servers. I've had instances where on my own personal server, after upgrading to PHP 5, ran into few problems with some scripts (mainly some phpbb addons) and have reverted back to PHP 4, doing so is a risk and isn't necessary yet at this point for many hosts.

    I'm sure more and more hosts will start supporting PHP 5 in the near future. I've seen few hosts who are supporting php5 already, I'd do a search on WHT (Offers section etc..) and then do a search for reviews of the host you have in mind, Good luck!
    CirtexHosting Providing Affordable and Quality Web Hosting & Reseller Hosting since 2003
    LINUX based cPANEL/WHM Shared and Reseller Web Hosting with Fantastico
    HostV VPS Premium Virtual Private Servers & Dedicated Servers powered by cPanel/WHM
    We transfer your sites over quickly! I eat penguins for breakfast ...

  3. #3
    Thanks but I think you missed what I said in my post. If you install php 5 in CGI mode, and link only ".php5" files to it, then there is absolutely no issue with breaking existing php code. Existing php code still runs php4, same version you had before, same everything. Only .php5 files run php 5, in CGI mode. Seriously, look into it, it's really easy to set up, I have it running on my local linux machine and all I did is follow the tutorials.

  4. #4
    btw this is what pair.com does, among the many many other hosts..

  5. #5
    It still might cause confusion with some customers.

    Another large reason is that enough scripts haven't really been made and are in production to warrant a php5 upgrade.

  6. #6
    Anything might cause confusion with some customers. Offering perl and php at the same time might cause confusion with some customers.

    And PHP isn't there just to install other people's scripts you know.

    Wow this is not the response I was expecting, I thought people would be going "Wow, some hosting companies can't figure out installing 5 alongside 4? amazing, its so easy!"

    (Btw, thanks for including your host name in your sig.)

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    9,852
    Originally posted by Rotwang
    Anything might cause confusion with some customers. Offering perl and php at the same time might cause confusion with some customers.

    And PHP isn't there just to install other people's scripts you know.

    Wow this is not the response I was expecting, I thought people would be going "Wow, some hosting companies can't figure out installing 5 alongside 4? amazing, its so easy!"

    (Btw, thanks for including your host name in your sig.)

    So because you didn't get the response you wanted you choose to be rude?

    Perhaps some people just don't agree with you.

  8. #8
    Originally posted by Rotwang


    And PHP isn't there just to install other people's scripts you know.

    (Btw, thanks for including your host name in your sig.)
    I would say, and I'm sure many people would agree as well, that 3rd party scripts are more popular and more widely used than custom-made scripts. When there is a large market for PHP5, then I'm positive hosts will jump on and start supporting it - but for now, there isn't a large market.

    (Signature comment sarcasm?)

  9. #9
    Well, hosts already are jumping on and supporting it. Because it's trivially easy to do.

    (Yes, I'd avoid any host that doesn't spend the hour it takes to offer it.)

  10. #10
    The problem isn't if there is a demand or not - the problem is with the degree of the demand. Right now, there's not too much reliance on PHP5 so production is going to be down.

    It's basic supply and demand/economics laws ...

  11. #11
    No it's basic ROI economic laws. And the cost of investment here is trivially cheap to free. The hosts that get that have installed php 5 alongside 4, and the hosts that don't get that, haven't.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    EU - east side
    Posts
    21,913
    The hosts that get that have installed php 5 alongside 4, and the hosts that don't get that, haven't.
    I really don't see why a host has to provide anything, even php of any kind for that matter. Each host is free to make business choices as it sees fit, with or without easy to figure out logic behind its decision.

    Also, just because something is virtually free, it doesn't mean it must be installed on a server.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Lansing, MI, USA
    Posts
    1,548
    Originally posted by Rotwang
    Well, hosts already are jumping on and supporting it. Because it's trivially easy to do.

    (Yes, I'd avoid any host that doesn't spend the hour it takes to offer it.)
    It really depends on how you set it up as to how 'trivial' it is to set it up. If you wish merely to offer a .php5 extension, then it can take some time to learn how to implement it precisely with your chosen control panel.

    Now if you wish to extend that offering with any features to easily swap which version of php .php files are processed with, that can take a little longer.

    Really. it's up to the host to decide which market they wish to cater to. Some hosts chose to just go after the base market while others push the way into the future by offering extended functionality. Neither is the wrong choice, nor is it right. Every host has a different plan to reach their customers. You really don't have to berate a host because they choose not to offer such services. Maybe they have people on staff who know php4 but not php5, and choose to only offer what they have experience with. Maybe they're waiting to run php5 as a module when there is more support for it.

    No need to pick fights with hosts who don't feel it is in their best interest to offer php5. Just like we haven't gone with a mod_php5 setup, that doesn't mean I should take shots at hosts who have, or hosts who don't offer php5 at all. It's really none of anyone's business what they're doing but their own.

    Have a good day
    Jacob - WebOnce Technologies - 30 Day 100% Satisfaction Guarantee - Over 5 Years Going Strong!
    Website Hosting, PHP4&5, RoR, MySQL 5.0, Reseller Hosting, Development, and Designs
    Powered By JAM - Professional Website Development - PHP, MySQL, JavaScript, AJAX - Projects Small & Large

  14. #14
    Originally posted by WO-Jacob
    It really depends on how you set it up as to how 'trivial' it is to set it up. If you wish merely to offer a .php5 extension, then it can take some time to learn how to implement it precisely with your chosen control panel.

    Now if you wish to extend that offering with any features to easily swap which version of php .php files are processed with, that can take a little longer.

    Really. it's up to the host to decide which market they wish to cater to. Some hosts chose to just go after the base market while others push the way into the future by offering extended functionality. Neither is the wrong choice, nor is it right. Every host has a different plan to reach their customers. You really don't have to berate a host because they choose not to offer such services. Maybe they have people on staff who know php4 but not php5, and choose to only offer what they have experience with. Maybe they're waiting to run php5 as a module when there is more support for it.

    No need to pick fights with hosts who don't feel it is in their best interest to offer php5. Just like we haven't gone with a mod_php5 setup, that doesn't mean I should take shots at hosts who have, or hosts who don't offer php5 at all. It's really none of anyone's business what they're doing but their own.

    Have a good day

    Well stated.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Posts
    86
    Just my two cents, but many hosts simply aren't that knowledgeable about hosting. They'd rather focus on overselling space and bandwidth, knowing that the majority of sites out there never even use a gig a month of bandwidth.

    Dreamhost and Textdrive and Zettai are some of the shared hosting providers out there that do focus on being developer-friendly, something that is a rarity in this age of brainless Cpanel kiddie hosts.

  16. #16
    Originally posted by carrotweb
    Just my two cents, but many hosts simply aren't that knowledgeable about hosting. They'd rather focus on overselling space and bandwidth, knowing that the majority of sites out there never even use a gig a month of bandwidth.

    Dreamhost and Textdrive and Zettai are some of the shared hosting providers out there that do focus on being developer-friendly, something that is a rarity in this age of brainless Cpanel kiddie hosts.
    Well stated!

    Thanks I'll look into those three hosts and see if their on the ball.

    I think I disagreed with almost every point in WO-Jacob's post. But one thing I definately agreed with was "Maybe they have people on staff who know php4 but not php5, and choose to only offer what they have experience with.". Yep, that's it, they don't have it installed because they haven't bothered to spend the hour it takes to be knowledgable on the subject. And for that their customers suffer, their business suffers, php suffers, and they deserve criticism.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Lansing, MI, USA
    Posts
    1,548
    Originally posted by Rotwang
    Well stated!

    Thanks I'll look into those three hosts and see if their on the ball.

    I think I disagreed with almost every point in WO-Jacob's post. But one thing I definately agreed with was "Maybe they have people on staff who know php4 but not php5, and choose to only offer what they have experience with.". Yep, that's it, they don't have it installed because they haven't bothered to spend the hour it takes to be knowledgable on the subject. And for that their customers suffer, their business suffers, php suffers, and they deserve criticism.
    I highly doubt thier customers suffer. Most shared hosting clients don't know and don't care about what version of php is running as long as whatever they install works. With this standard as the measuring stuck, PHP4 is the proper default choice, since that is still what the majority of scripts run on.

    Their business is doubtfully suffering, as you say. A majority of hosts don't depend on the developer market to thrive, and honestly, developers tend to... develop, on the server, which causes further instability and can actually HURT a business as opposed to help one. Don't tell me you've never done an actidental infinite loop.

    PHP prospers for the simple fact that any host offering php support helps further it's reach to the end users. Sure, it's holding it back, somewhat, but then so are all the script developers who are still only writing with PHP4 in mind. It's not too hard to develop a script to work in php4 and php5. Talk to the developers who write the software and get them all to get their source up to date if you want to start bashing anyone.

    No host deserves criticism because they don't offer the features you want. Or do you think yourself special enough that every host on the planet should want to host you? What about hosts who only have a copy of their site in Hindi? Do they need to be critisized too? Or is that something totally different ?

    Really, you need to relax. Some people just are not interested in offering what you want provided. Take a deep breath and look around for other providers who do.

    Have a good night.
    Jacob - WebOnce Technologies - 30 Day 100% Satisfaction Guarantee - Over 5 Years Going Strong!
    Website Hosting, PHP4&5, RoR, MySQL 5.0, Reseller Hosting, Development, and Designs
    Powered By JAM - Professional Website Development - PHP, MySQL, JavaScript, AJAX - Projects Small & Large

  18. #18
    PHP5 is not very hard at all to install along side PHP4. I also find it hard to believe that all hosts dont offer it, because its a simple method to gain a new client base. There are lots of hosts that do offer it now though, just do a search on google for PHP5 web hosting
    Eleven2 Web Hosting - World-Wide Hosting, Done Right!

  19. #19
    Originally posted by WO-Jacob
    I highly doubt thier customers suffer. Most shared hosting clients don't know and don't care about what version of php is running as long as whatever they install works.
    I'm a customer and I suffer. You say "most" don't. So we agree that some suffer.

    Their business is doubtfully suffering, as you say. A majority of hosts don't depend on the developer market to thrive, and honestly, developers tend to... develop, on the server, which causes further instability and can actually HURT a business as opposed to help one. Don't tell me you've never done an actidental infinite loop.
    See here's where your logic stumbles. Developers, who develop, are the customers that are more likely to make sites that grow and make money and need bigger servers. Since you have problems reading anything but absolutes, I'll remind you that I said "more likely". I didn't say "all" developers make money. I didn't say "all" installers don't make money. Developers are mostly smarter than installers, obviously. Smarter people have bigger clients and make more money. A web hosting company wants more money. Crazy, right? So it hurts their business if they're putting off developers. I dare you to find a web hosting company that says "we're not developer friendly" on their web site.


    PHP prospers for the simple fact that any host offering php support helps further it's reach to the end users. Sure, it's holding it back, somewhat, but then so are all the script developers who are still only writing with PHP4 in mind. It's not too hard to develop a script to work in php4 and php5. Talk to the developers who write the software and get them all to get their source up to date if you want to start bashing anyone.
    Talk to the developers who can't try their code in php 5 because it's not installed on their host's server. That's good for php? Good for the developer?

    No host deserves criticism because they don't offer the features you want. Or do you think yourself special enough that every host on the planet should want to host you?
    It's ROI. ROI. ROI. ROI. The investment here to get me to host on their site is something that free and trivially easy to do. This is a non-argument here. You're talking about supporting php 5 like it's a major business decision for the hosting companies. That's where you venture into absurdity. It's an hour. One. Hour.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Quad Cities, Iowa
    Posts
    1,597
    Many hosts won't run PHP4 and PHP5 side-by-side because that option does not easily integrate with control panels such as cPanel.

    On a cPanel server, using the side-by-side option, domains are setup on PHP4 by default. The customer must either use mod_rewrite along with .php5 extensions, or be switched completely to PHP5 using Mod_Proxy settings in the Apache config.

    There were many obstacles that had to be overcome to offer side-by-side service on a cPanel server. The setup is pretty easy, but some of the problems with integration took awhile to overcome.
    Need a new Web Host?
    Become a Host Refugee and receive TRUE 24/7 Support

    cPanel + Fantastico, PHP4 or PHP5
    HostRefugee.com - See our current promotions

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Sep 2000
    Location
    Alberta, Canada
    Posts
    3,109
    Good points, all, Jacob.

    This thread got side-tracked pretty quick, but I guess that is due to passion for PHP 5 on both sides.

    Rotwang, don't be so hard on people/companies that don't provide what 'you' want. That is a fact of life which we all deal with everyday. Hosters not yet offering PHP 5, of which we are one, suffer very little. Our Clients suffer very little as well because as already stated, most don't care what is installed so long as what they want to use will work. Otherwise, they go elsewhere and that is understood by all.

    I don't see you degrading Hosts that are not yet providing Ruby on Rails. Could it be because that is not yet important to you? And what about Java? Should all Hosters offer that as well. Then there is the ASP tweak for Linux/Apache so people can, somewhat, use ASP code. Any comments there? Plus there is ....

    I think you get my point.

    Look for a Hoster that provides what 'you' want and good business can be done. That applies to people looking for the newest 'whatever' right down to good Uptime, Support, etc. Getting into arguments on whether Hosters should or shouldn't be offering PHP 5 will just take you off track, in your search for a Hoster that is good for you.
    PotentProducts.com - for all your Hosting needs
    Helping people Host, Create and Maintain their Web Site
    ServerAdmin Services also available

  22. #22
    Originally posted by Website Rob

    I don't see you degrading Hosts that are not yet providing Ruby on Rails. Could it be because that is not yet important to you? And what about Java? Should all Hosters offer that as well. Then there is the ASP tweak for Linux/Apache so people can, somewhat, use ASP code. Any comments there? Plus there is ....
    Sure, I'll answer that- It's true that I don't care about ruby. Howerver, yes, I AM upset if a host doesn't have it installed. There's no good reason not to. That indicates a lazy host that doesn't care about it's developers. That's not a good sign.

    Java is another story. Installing java actually is a major time investment. And it's not easy to maintain either, doesn't do well in a shared environment. As you'll see from like half of my other posts on the thread, I keep saying it's all about supporting stuff that's easy to support. ROI. One hour. etc.

    If it's easy to install, (and free), then it should be installed. Period.

  23. #23
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Lansing, MI, USA
    Posts
    1,548
    Originally posted by Rotwang
    Sure, I'll answer that- It's true that I don't care about ruby. Howerver, yes, I AM upset if a host doesn't have it installed. There's no good reason not to. That indicates a lazy host that doesn't care about it's developers. That's not a good sign.

    Java is another story. Installing java actually is a major time investment. And it's not easy to maintain either, doesn't do well in a shared environment. As you'll see from like half of my other posts on the thread, I keep saying it's all about supporting stuff that's easy to support. ROI. One hour. etc.

    If it's easy to install, (and free), then it should be installed. Period.
    So just to clarify, you can install php5 in a side-by-side with php4 on 1000 servers in an hour? Please... do tell.
    Jacob - WebOnce Technologies - 30 Day 100% Satisfaction Guarantee - Over 5 Years Going Strong!
    Website Hosting, PHP4&5, RoR, MySQL 5.0, Reseller Hosting, Development, and Designs
    Powered By JAM - Professional Website Development - PHP, MySQL, JavaScript, AJAX - Projects Small & Large

  24. #24
    Originally posted by WO-Jacob
    So just to clarify, you can install php5 in a side-by-side with php4 on 1000 servers in an hour? Please... do tell.
    My god this an easy one.

    A) You know very well that the average host doesn't have 1000 shared servers. (Most hosts are a resellers, for one thing.)

    B) You also know that even some hosts with 10 servers aren't supporting php 5 in cgi mode, because they're just, as you said, uneducated.

    C) YES. You know that a host with 1000 servers isn't upgrading every single one by hand. You have a propagation system, you tell it what to change, and you send it flying. I'm not saying it's "easy" to design such a system, but once you have it, you have it, and every host with 1000 servers has it.

    Come on man.

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Sep 2000
    Location
    Alberta, Canada
    Posts
    3,109
    Originally posted by Rotwang
    If it's easy to install, (and free), then it should be installed. Period.
    Good thing you are a Client looking for a Hoster and not the other way around.
    PotentProducts.com - for all your Hosting needs
    Helping people Host, Create and Maintain their Web Site
    ServerAdmin Services also available

  26. #26
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Lansing, MI, USA
    Posts
    1,548
    Originally posted by Rotwang
    My god this an easy one.

    A) You know very well that the average host doesn't have 1000 shared servers. (Most hosts are a resellers, for one thing.)

    B) You also know that even some hosts with 10 servers aren't supporting php 5 in cgi mode, because they're just, as you said, uneducated.

    C) YES. You know that a host with 1000 servers isn't upgrading every single one by hand. You have a propagation system, you tell it what to change, and you send it flying. I'm not saying it's "easy" to design such a system, but once you have it, you have it, and every host with 1000 servers has it.

    Come on man.
    Well, you started with the crazy talk, not me!

    Really though man, don't bash people because they don't offer what you want. If you want to suggest to them that they offer it, that's great, and quite a nice thing to do, but really, if you are so concerned, start your own hosting company and offer what you feel the others are not.

    There is a hosting company for everyone out there, it is just a matter of finding the one right for you. I don't know of many hosts who claim to be the best for everyone... I know we certainly do not. You won't change anyone's mind on what products they offer by bashing them. Remember, medicine goes down better with sugar. If you want hosts to add services, then one might suggest acting like someone that hosts would want as a client. Bashing a company is definitely not a way to endear them to your train of thought.
    Jacob - WebOnce Technologies - 30 Day 100% Satisfaction Guarantee - Over 5 Years Going Strong!
    Website Hosting, PHP4&5, RoR, MySQL 5.0, Reseller Hosting, Development, and Designs
    Powered By JAM - Professional Website Development - PHP, MySQL, JavaScript, AJAX - Projects Small & Large

  27. #27
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    HK
    Posts
    3,076

    Smile

    Actually, you are looking down at hosts that do not support or cannot install php5 or you are looking for a host that supports php5?

    You've found a host for yourself, pair.com
    Now leave this thread alone please ~

  28. #28
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Quad Cities, Iowa
    Posts
    1,597
    Originally posted by Rotwang
    My god this an easy one.

    A) You know very well that the average host doesn't have 1000 shared servers. (Most hosts are a resellers, for one thing.)
    That right there is another good reason why alot of hosts don't support it. Resellers don't have the access required to install it.

    Originally posted by Rotwang
    Sure, I'll answer that- It's true that I don't care about ruby. Howerver, yes, I AM upset if a host doesn't have it installed. There's no good reason not to. That indicates a lazy host that doesn't care about it's developers. That's not a good sign.
    I would have to disagree with you on that one. Just because it's available and easy to install does not mean every host should go out and install it. When running a server their is alot more to worry about than the initial install. Updates, Exploits, Support ect.. ect...

    A customer last week wanted to know if we could compile Tidy into PHP4 and PHP5. A recompile doesn't take long, so that's no problem. Before we did it though, we looked into Tidy, made sure there were no public exploits and made sure there were no compatiability issues. There is 1000's of things we could compile into PHP but their is no point in having to keep track of all that. As I said it goes further than the initial install. If I had to keep track of 1000 different pieces of software and make sure they were always up to date I would be pulling my hair out.
    Need a new Web Host?
    Become a Host Refugee and receive TRUE 24/7 Support

    cPanel + Fantastico, PHP4 or PHP5
    HostRefugee.com - See our current promotions

  29. #29
    Originally posted by YUPAPA
    Actually, you are looking down at hosts that do not support or cannot install php5 or you are looking for a host that supports php5?

    You've found a host for yourself, pair.com
    Now leave this thread alone please ~
    Er, um did you read the topic post?

  30. #30
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    PA
    Posts
    1,899
    Rotwang,

    Just some things observed with regard to your posts, you're upset if a host doesn't have ruby on rails installed/supported? You do realize the performance impact a runaway rails script can have correct (or even heavy properly running ones for that matter)? Also you do realize that most hosting providers are not out to support _everything_ as that'd be insane to even try unless you have upwards of 12-24 web servers (as there are how many different control panels out there? both paid and free ones, and how many versions of php, mysql, ruby, perl, <insert additiona programming code language or program here as there are plenty>?).

    Rotwang,
    Glad to hear you have found a host that suits you.
    Justin Schurawlow :: Technology Enthusiast
    Schurawlow PC Repair
    Computer Services for the Lehigh Valley area
    Blog :: The Justin Schurawlow Blog

  31. #31
    Originally posted by jschurawlow

    Rotwang,
    Glad to hear you have found a host that suits you.
    Um, I haven't. Seriously, did you read the original post? This is like the twilight zone...

    I'm not expecting hosts to support "everything", actually, I'm expecting them to support "everything that's relatively common". Ruby is relatively common for web development, compaired with, say, CAML or LISP. And if ruby is so wild and crazy and risky and dangerous, why do so many hosts support it, smart guy?

  32. #32
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Scotland
    Posts
    2,830
    Originally posted by Rotwang
    It's ROI. ROI. ROI. ROI. The investment here to get me to host on their site is something that free and trivially easy to do. This is a non-argument here. You're talking about supporting php 5 like it's a major business decision for the hosting companies. That's where you venture into absurdity. It's an hour. One. Hour.
    Reading this thread shows your ignorance to what a host has to do just to support one additional language.

    No it is not "just one hour". The inital install might take 1 hour, but are you suggesting they just install it and leave it? Does it not need updated? Do they not need to answer support questions regarding it?

    Adding support for anything extra requires time and money. It's like saying "What do you mean you don't have time to look after a dog? It only takes 1 hour to go to the shelter to get it" and expecting the dog to look after itself.

  33. #33
    No matter how you slice it, you're in the position of making an argument that justifies laziness. Most hosts support php 5. Apparently the huge burden that you've dramatized isn't such a big deal for them. Hosting companies, like all companies, are judged by comparison. If it's such a big dramatic risk, then why are half of them taking it? It's not a big risk. You're claim is empty, as evidenced by the hosting company next to you..

    (Actually I'm not surprised you'd think it's a big deal, you run a Windows host.)

  34. #34
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    The Server Rooms :)
    Posts
    163
    So basically you started this post to be rude to anyone with a different point of view, right? Because I've read every post, and that's how you are coming off..

    How about respecting other's opinions, especially when they are in the business and have at least some experience? You have got to know that you're going to get every point of view by posting to the forum, so why try to stir things up?

    We all have our moments, but this is a little out there.. (at least in my -opinion-)

    Have a great day/night all..

    Mike

    Originally posted by Rotwang
    No matter how you slice it, you're in the position of making an argument that justifies laziness. Most hosts support php 5. Apparently the huge burden that you've dramatized isn't such a big deal for them. Hosting companies, like all companies, are judged by comparison. If it's such a big dramatic risk, then why are half of them taking it? It's not a big risk. You're claim is empty, as evidenced by the hosting company next to you..

    (Actually I'm not surprised you'd think it's a big deal, you run a Windows host.)
    Michael Rosati, TurbulentMedia Founder
    Shared/Reseller/Semi-Dedicated/ TeamSpeak Hosting
    █ Certified Authorize.net Merchant Services

    Toll-free sales and support - 1.800.746.0611

  35. #35
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Quad Cities, Iowa
    Posts
    1,597
    Well as I stated above, I do represent a Web Host that DOES support PHP5. (We run PHP4 and PHP5 side-by-side)

    I do know that the install takes less than an hour, that has already been determined to be the easy part.

    It goes way beyond the initial install though and here's why.

    1) Running PHP4 and PHP5 side-by-side does not integrate well with control panels such as cPanel, Plesk, Direct Admin ect...

    2) To port someone over to PHP5 fully requires the client to put in a support ticket and it must be done manually.

    3) We actually created a script to convert domains over to PHP5, but it's not something we can allow customers to use directly. If a customer were to make a small typo, it could crash either Apache depending on what they typed wrong.

    4) We had to custom design both an internal and external monitoring system to ensure Apache w/PHP5 was running correctly. If it is not running properly, you can still connect to sites but their is a proxy error.

    5) We had to train our technical support team on how to manually setup and remove the PHP5 settings so if a problem arised they would have some idea on what to do.

    6) We have to constantly monitor our servers to ensure that a client with a sub-domain, or a reseller with a domain on PHP5 does not remove the sub-domain/domain from cPanel. If they do Apache w/PHP5 will not restart again until the <VirtualHost> container for that domain/sub-domain is removed. This is actually the reason why we can not allow clients to use our automatic script to port their domain to PHP5, because it restarts Apache w/PHP5. Our techs have to do it so they can watch Apache come back up properly and hurry up and go in and remove the bad <VirtualHost> container if someone did remove a domain.

    7) We now have to watch for exploits targetting PHP5, we have to watch for updates, and we have to support clients questions about PHP5. This also required extra training for our techs.


    With all the above being said, it now has to be apparant as to why all hosts are not jumping on the Band Wagon to offer PHP5. HostRefugee does NOT plan to stop offering this service any time soon, but we can absolutely understand why another host may not want to offer it at all.
    Need a new Web Host?
    Become a Host Refugee and receive TRUE 24/7 Support

    cPanel + Fantastico, PHP4 or PHP5
    HostRefugee.com - See our current promotions

  36. #36
    Originally posted by TurbulentMedia
    So basically you started this post to be rude to anyone with a different point of view, right? Because I've read every post, and that's how you are coming off..
    No, basically I started this thread to find other hosts that support php 5. People responded with a bunch of crap about how php 5 is so dangerous and scary and lions and tigers and bears oh my, and I responded to their posts to point out their absurdities, and in cases where they stated matters of opinion I state my opinion in response. I think anyone reading the thread cronologically can see that. I did get a few hosts to try which was the goal of the thread. Speaking of which,

    Hostrefugee- thanks, it sounds like control panels are the problem more so than PHP 5. I'm not surprised actually- I categorically hate control panels and what they've done to the web hosting industry. But, I do know they're a necessary evil since most people aren't technical enough to manage their site without them. Still I think PHP 5 should be installed and just officially not configurable from the control panel if the control panels are what's holding it back. Thanks for the info, I may sign up with you I'll look at your packages,

    RW

  37. #37
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    HK
    Posts
    3,076

    Smile

    May I ask what are the settings you have in your VirtualHost that causes apache not to restart?

    I have never seen this problem ~

  38. #38
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Lansing, MI, USA
    Posts
    1,548
    Originally posted by HostRefugee-Vince
    Well as I stated above, I do represent a Web Host that DOES support PHP5. (We run PHP4 and PHP5 side-by-side)

    I do know that the install takes less than an hour, that has already been determined to be the easy part.

    It goes way beyond the initial install though and here's why.

    1) Running PHP4 and PHP5 side-by-side does not integrate well with control panels such as cPanel, Plesk, Direct Admin ect...

    2) To port someone over to PHP5 fully requires the client to put in a support ticket and it must be done manually.

    3) We actually created a script to convert domains over to PHP5, but it's not something we can allow customers to use directly. If a customer were to make a small typo, it could crash either Apache depending on what they typed wrong.

    4) We had to custom design both an internal and external monitoring system to ensure Apache w/PHP5 was running correctly. If it is not running properly, you can still connect to sites but their is a proxy error.

    5) We had to train our technical support team on how to manually setup and remove the PHP5 settings so if a problem arised they would have some idea on what to do.

    6) We have to constantly monitor our servers to ensure that a client with a sub-domain, or a reseller with a domain on PHP5 does not remove the sub-domain/domain from cPanel. If they do Apache w/PHP5 will not restart again until the <VirtualHost> container for that domain/sub-domain is removed. This is actually the reason why we can not allow clients to use our automatic script to port their domain to PHP5, because it restarts Apache w/PHP5. Our techs have to do it so they can watch Apache come back up properly and hurry up and go in and remove the bad <VirtualHost> container if someone did remove a domain.

    7) We now have to watch for exploits targetting PHP5, we have to watch for updates, and we have to support clients questions about PHP5. This also required extra training for our techs.


    With all the above being said, it now has to be apparant as to why all hosts are not jumping on the Band Wagon to offer PHP5. HostRefugee does NOT plan to stop offering this service any time soon, but we can absolutely understand why another host may not want to offer it at all.
    Interesting, you aparently run a seporate instance of apache for php5... so do you mod_proxy from the origional or simply ip-shift to put them on an instance sitting on another ip?

    The benefits of running as a cgi shine to that aspect... simple .htaccess rule, and even then you can use .php/.php5 side-by-side, though it does use more resources and have a little higher lag time.

    Always nice to see how others have implemented it.

    What was REAL fun was spending 2 weeks off-and-on trying to modify the code base to allow php4 and php5 to load as apache modules side-by-side in the same apache instance. I was able to get it once, but then nothing in the php5 instance worked properly! LOL (php_info() because php5_info() and such... it was *VERY* odd!)

  39. #39
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Quad Cities, Iowa
    Posts
    1,597
    Well the way we have things setup is that all request go through Apache w/ PHP4. If someone request to be on PHP5 we use Mod_Proxy to port them to the PHP5 Apache.

    Let's say a reseller removes a domain that was setup on PHP5. cPanel will remove the <VirtualHost> container from the Apache w/PHP4. The next time Apache w/PHP5 is restarted it will not start because 'USERNAME' does not exist. We then go in and manually remove the <VirtualHost> container for that domain from Apache w/PHP5. This whole process takes only 20 seconds to do, but is annoying nonetheless. Basically it's the User and Group line in the <VirtualHost> container that causes the problems.
    Need a new Web Host?
    Become a Host Refugee and receive TRUE 24/7 Support

    cPanel + Fantastico, PHP4 or PHP5
    HostRefugee.com - See our current promotions

  40. #40
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Quad Cities, Iowa
    Posts
    1,597
    Originally posted by Rotwang

    Hostrefugee- thanks, it sounds like control panels are the problem more so than PHP 5. I'm not surprised actually- I categorically hate control panels and what they've done to the web hosting industry. But, I do know they're a necessary evil since most people aren't technical enough to manage their site without them. Still I think PHP 5 should be installed and just officially not configurable from the control panel if the control panels are what's holding it back. Thanks for the info, I may sign up with you I'll look at your packages,

    RW
    I think you hit the nail on the head. Most if not all problems arise from the fact that their is a control panel, and a user who is allowed to use it.

    BTW we do not offer Ruby on Rails as of yet, which is something you posted about earlier in this thread. This is something we are looking into. I am not the one who makes the final call on this but I will ask to see if I can get a timeline.

    I do know that nothing is ever put on our production servers until it has been tested in a remote environment, so we can see how it will react with our server and how it integrates with cPanel.
    Need a new Web Host?
    Become a Host Refugee and receive TRUE 24/7 Support

    cPanel + Fantastico, PHP4 or PHP5
    HostRefugee.com - See our current promotions

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •