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Thread: What size screen size - PLEASE?!
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10-12-2005, 05:01 AM #1Junior Guru Wannabe
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What size screen size - PLEASE?!
What browser size would people recommend designing Web sites in? E.g. is there an average size that people view their internet browsers at?
I'm sure this must vary considerably. Is there a 'good'/'safe' size or a way of getting around this problem.
I know when I am browsing it puts me off if I have to use scroll bars (particularly left-right scroll bars) and I want to avoid this on the Web sites that I design but not sure how wide to set the screen.
Hope this makes sense? Any advice gladly appreciated.
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10-12-2005, 05:14 AM #2Retired Moderator
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If you want to play it safe go 800x600. I generally design for that size.
If you want to not worry so much just make a liquid design that can scroll down to 640px or so.█ Mike from Zoodia.com
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10-12-2005, 05:20 AM #3Web Hosting Master
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The best solution, Amy, is to not design for any specific size. You should use percentages for your widths, this way, your design will expand and contract to the correct size, depending upon the screen resolution of the visitor.
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10-12-2005, 05:24 AM #4Junior Guru Wannabe
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Oh I see. Thanks for this.
Is percentage width dictated in the HTML?
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10-12-2005, 05:27 AM #5Retired Moderator
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Yes it is.
ie: <table width="100%" border="1"><tr><td>Hello world!</td></tr></table>
This is called a "liquid" design. Fixed width is usually called a static design.█ Mike from Zoodia.com
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10-12-2005, 05:35 AM #6Junior Guru Wannabe
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Fab! I've got this working on my site heading! And that's much better!
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10-12-2005, 06:38 AM #7Web Hosting Guru
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Originally posted by justadollarhostin
Yes it is.
ie: <table width="100%" border="1"><tr><td>Hello world!</td></tr></table>
This is called a "liquid" design. Fixed width is usually called a static design.
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10-12-2005, 06:39 AM #8Retired Moderator
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Demo? you're looking at one. WHT is a liquid design.
Grab the edge of the window and shrink it, then epand it. See how it changes.█ Mike from Zoodia.com
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10-12-2005, 06:52 AM #9Web Hosting Master
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WHT isn't much of an example Michael, in fact, the main forum area is fixed width.
Take a look at http://www.now-design.co.uk/
That expands and contracts, to almost any resolution.
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10-12-2005, 07:04 AM #10Retired Moderator
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WHT is a good enough example for the thread's intentions, but since when is it a fixed-width? The only thing that is keeping it from being able to go all the way down is the images (mainly the banners).
█ Mike from Zoodia.com
█ Professional web design and development services.
█ In need of a fresh hosting design? See what premade designs we have in stock!
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10-12-2005, 07:13 AM #11Web Hosting Master
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Hummm, now that's strange. WHT doesn't seem to contract in Opera, whereas in IE, it does. Sorry about that Michael, my mistake. Not sure why it stays fixed width in Opera.
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10-12-2005, 07:18 AM #12Retired Moderator
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Oh no harm done by any means. The site you listed is a much better example. There was a nice CSS article (Top 10 CSS tips) over at sitepoint that also mentioned including a minimum-width value in your liquid designs to keep them from contracting too much.
█ Mike from Zoodia.com
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█ In need of a fresh hosting design? See what premade designs we have in stock!
█ Web design tips, tricks, and more at MichaelPruitt.com
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10-12-2005, 07:44 AM #13Junior Guru Wannabe
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This is very helpful guys.
Presumably CSS will allow me to do page layout more effectively than HTML. I have only learnt basic HTML and correct me if I am wrong, but using tables seems to be the only way to layout objects (eg. text, images) in blocks next to each other. Does CSS resolve this restriction?
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10-12-2005, 07:51 AM #14Retired Moderator
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Be careful Amy, you'll open up a whole can of worms in this thread if you get people thinking you are starting a debate between table based designs and tableless designs.
Here is what I consider the official ruling (what is said from w3c who develop all this webdesign stuff):
CSS should be used to control the way a site looks
Tables should be used to present tabular data.
I.E. if you are showing a spreadsheet on your website, then go ahead and use a table, if you are setting up a menubar, then CSS is what should be used.
I still do table based design for much of my stuff because it is what people are used to (generally speaking).
http://www.w3.org is chock full of information about all this stuff (do not take that as me saying not to post your questions, just giving you more resources).█ Mike from Zoodia.com
█ Professional web design and development services.
█ In need of a fresh hosting design? See what premade designs we have in stock!
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10-12-2005, 07:53 AM #15Web Hosting Master
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CSS is fast becoming the standard for laying Web pages out, Amy. Tables are often used, but if you abide by standards, you shouldn't be using them, unless you are displaying tablular data, such as a set of race results.
Using CSS, however, is that bit more advanced than using tables, and therefore requires that bit more knowledge.
If you want to give CSS a go, try looking at the following sites.
http://glish.com/css/
http://www.alistapart.com/stories/practicalcss/
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10-12-2005, 08:21 AM #16Junior Guru Wannabe
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My intention was certainly not to cause a debate.
I'm very new to all of this and I am still trying to get my head around it all, so to get an idea of peoples thoughts and feelings on different topics is invaluable.
I understand that using tables for layouts is not the recommended way and I am certainly not encouraging people to do so.
The trouble is, as I have never even looked at CSS, I have no idea of what it does and why etc. I am merely using WHT as a (extremely) useful information and opinion portal and certainly do not want to cause offense.
Sorry for any caused.
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10-12-2005, 08:30 AM #17Retired Moderator
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Oh no offense caused, it's just one of those topics like "What's the best control panel?" that seems to come up with a never-ending-debate
█ Mike from Zoodia.com
█ Professional web design and development services.
█ In need of a fresh hosting design? See what premade designs we have in stock!
█ Web design tips, tricks, and more at MichaelPruitt.com
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10-12-2005, 09:27 AM #18Retired Moderator
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Hi Amy,
It seems the question of resolution has been adequately covered. To recap, you can't plan for one resolution, but you can plan for all
As for the tables v. CSS debate, I'll present you with your own previous thread on the matter - http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showth...hreadid=444946 - otherwise, I'd just be copy/pasting myself into this threadStudio1337___̴ı̴̴̡̡̡ ̡͌l̡̡̡ ̡͌l̡*̡̡ ̴̡ı̴̴̡ ̡̡͡|̲̲̲͡͡͡ ̲▫̲͡ ̲̲̲͡͡π̲̲͡͡ ̲̲͡▫̲̲͡͡ ̲|̡̡̡ ̡ ̴̡ı̴̡̡ ̡͌l̡̡̡̡.__Web Design
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10-12-2005, 12:11 PM #19Junior Guru Wannabe
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Like I said, I was merely asking the question:
Does CSS deal with the layout where HTML cannot (except via Tables). I've got the answer and I'll make sure I never touch on this subject again!
Sheesh!
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10-12-2005, 12:30 PM #20Retired Moderator
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Ahh, there's nothing wrong with the subject. It's an important one in the day-to-day lives of developers
I just figured this was an apropos place to bring back that discussion, since it links in well with your query here.
One point should be made for clarification:
Does CSS deal with the layout where HTML cannot (except via Tables).
I hope that clears things upStudio1337___̴ı̴̴̡̡̡ ̡͌l̡̡̡ ̡͌l̡*̡̡ ̴̡ı̴̴̡ ̡̡͡|̲̲̲͡͡͡ ̲▫̲͡ ̲̲̲͡͡π̲̲͡͡ ̲̲͡▫̲̲͡͡ ̲|̡̡̡ ̡ ̴̡ı̴̡̡ ̡͌l̡̡̡̡.__Web Design
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10-12-2005, 04:21 PM #21Newbie
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I've tried using CSS for tableless layout and it's quite clean and minimal but it has it's own drawback it cannot handle column height with different background color. When the height of your column grows the other column doesn't follow so you have an uneven height problem.
It is ok if all your columns have the same background color though.ASP.NET Frontend Designer
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10-12-2005, 04:51 PM #22Junior Guru Wannabe
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Is Mr CSS aware of this?! Mrs HTML will be furious.
Is it a problem with no reason or solution, or is the problem logical?
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10-12-2005, 04:54 PM #23Retired Moderator
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It's logical
The answer is pseudo-columns, and I've been trying to find a good tutorial on how you do this in CSS, but I haven't found the one I'm looking for yet. I might just have to write it myself
But no, this isn't a problem in CSS if you understand how this mechanism works.Studio1337___̴ı̴̴̡̡̡ ̡͌l̡̡̡ ̡͌l̡*̡̡ ̴̡ı̴̴̡ ̡̡͡|̲̲̲͡͡͡ ̲▫̲͡ ̲̲̲͡͡π̲̲͡͡ ̲̲͡▫̲̲͡͡ ̲|̡̡̡ ̡ ̴̡ı̴̡̡ ̡͌l̡̡̡̡.__Web Design
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10-13-2005, 01:07 AM #24Newbie
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I'm interested in your solution please elaborate more, this will help me a lot. I'm trying to avoid css for layout because of this but i used it a lot for margins and presentation
ASP.NET Frontend Designer
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10-13-2005, 01:27 AM #25Web Hosting Guru
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I think almost use 1024x768