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  1. #1
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    Is this anti fraudulent procedure normal??

    Prospect who place an order using Paypal.
    Do campanies require the prospect to send in a copy of their Credit Card (front and back)?
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  2. #2
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    For paypal? I'd say not since they shouldn't have access to it when using paypal...
    www.idologic.com - Reseller, VPS and dedicated hosting - Friendly Customer Service - DirectAdmin - cPanel - InterWorx
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  3. #3
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  4. #4
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    Originally posted by sagomatt
    Though not usually for paypal, if security measures are in place and tripped some warning signs, the company may request for additional pieces of verification.
    Forgot to mentioned that photoid verification already complied.
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  5. #5
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  6. #6
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    And it is only $15 which is $5 per month, prepaid 3 months remote backup service.

    It really puzzled me.
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  7. #7
    Is your account verified?
    crucialparadigm - Affordable, Reliable, Professional :
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  8. #8
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    To get a paypal account you don't need a credit card so I cannot see getting verification under those terms..
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  9. #9
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    I believe BeachComber does this (for paypal too), and while it's somewhat inconvenient for most users, it is a good way of making sure their customers are not fraud users or just simply signing up with stolen CCs and out to do harm to their network / equipment and such.
    CirtexHosting Providing Affordable and Quality Web Hosting & Reseller Hosting since 2003
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  10. #10
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    Sounds like a unneccesarry procedure for paypal.. Credit cards yes but paypal?

    When is the last time anyone had a fraud order from a paypal account? Personally I have never seen it.
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  11. #11
    When is the last time anyone had a fraud order from a paypal account?
    Plenty of times, we just had one come through a few hours ago!
    crucialparadigm - Affordable, Reliable, Professional :
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  12. #12
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    <looks at watch>


    Originally posted by X-Gaming
    Sounds like a unneccesarry procedure for paypal.. Credit cards yes but paypal?

    When is the last time anyone had a fraud order from a paypal account? Personally I have never seen it.
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  13. #13
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    Originally posted by X-Gaming
    When is the last time anyone had a fraud order from a paypal account? Personally I have never seen it.
    About 3 hours ago. We don't push too much volume through paypal anymore, but we still get at least 4-5 a week.
    Last edited by IGobyTerry; 10-11-2005 at 09:20 PM.
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  14. #14
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    We've had quite a few fraudulent orders come in of people trying to pay us with PayPal. Normally we're pretty alert and we call the telephone number on the order to verify before we allow anyone to pay by PayPal. I still get a handful of fraudulent orders every week so verifying information is still very important.
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  15. #15
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    Wow. I must be lucky then.. In over two years we have never had any paypal orders that turned up fraudulant. We get fraud CC orders pretty regularlly...

    Generally paypal users have their bank account bound to the account. I'm wondering how someone could get your bank account number and signup for a paypal account then go back and check for the dollar amount confirmation for it.... How is this possible to do?

    Usually if someone has a stolen credit card they will just try and use it to order goods which is most times pretty easy to spot.
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  16. #16
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    With all the PayPal phishing sites out there, a lot of accounts get stolen that way.
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  17. #17
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    Yes I guess that makes sense. Forgot about the dummies that fall for that pathetic scheme..
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  18. #18
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    We've had plenty of fraudulent accounts via paypal as well.. Fortunately we verify our orders via phone.
    James Lumby
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  19. #19
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    Is this anti fraudulent procedure normal??

    Prospect who place an order using Paypal.
    Do campanies require the prospect to send in a copy of their Credit Card (front and back)?
    While many hosts only require ID for paypal payments with the excessive amount of paypal accounts being hacked these days (via not having a strong password or through some phishing site...) I can see some reason behind a provider doing that.

    And to the tune of what was also asked, we've also had plenty of fraudulent paypal orders as well as credit card orders. Granted as with many providers we also do voice verification of all orders placed.

    In any case efarmer best of luck with your ventures.
    Justin Schurawlow :: Technology Enthusiast
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  20. #20
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    Yes agreed but insisting a potential customer send a copy of the front and back of a CC for a $15 order is a little excessive especially with paypal since chargebacks for everything but tangible goods are non-existent.. If a company makes people jump through hoops like that for $15 that's sad..
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  21. #21
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    Originally posted by crucialx
    Is your account verified?
    Paypal verified
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  22. #22
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    Originally posted by X-Gaming
    Yes agreed but insisting a potential customer send a copy of the front and back of a CC for a $15 order is a little excessive especially with paypal since chargebacks for everything but tangible goods are non-existent.. If a company makes people jump through hoops like that for $15 that's sad..
    Photo ID submitted, but they require Photo Id and front and back of credit card (no credit was used to pay for the order). The email used for the order is my own domain and not id protect, which shows that I am not hiding behind some email domain.
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  23. #23
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    Hmm. Go with other company. Why bother.
    Personally if I asked to send CC back and front for paypal, I will go other comapny. Is there any reason you want to go with this company?
    I'm using two backup account from different comany. Non of them ask any more information other then paypal account and personal information I typed on their form. I'm paying a lot more then you do also......

    For me very weird....... whatever the reason...
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  24. #24
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    If a company cannot make enough fraud checks with PayPal before demanding a copy of your credit card (completely unrelated to the sale), you should take your business elsewhere.
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  25. #25
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    Originally posted by X-Gaming
    Wow. I must be lucky then.. In over two years we have never had any paypal orders that turned up fraudulant. We get fraud CC orders pretty regularlly...

    Generally paypal users have their bank account bound to the account. I'm wondering how someone could get your bank account number and signup for a paypal account then go back and check for the dollar amount confirmation for it.... How is this possible to do?

    Usually if someone has a stolen credit card they will just try and use it to order goods which is most times pretty easy to spot.
    You may now after posting this, fraudsters actively patrol forums such as these for targets
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  26. #26
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    That's fine. I manually accept or decline each order personally that's why I'm a big supporter against using auto setup scripts. If you took these away you would probably see a huge decline in fraud orders and is probably a big reason why some of you have such high fraud rates..

    Besides that fraudsters don't target posts like this they target the ones that announce "I just started a xxx company... How do I SSH?"..
    Last edited by Defcon|Rich; 10-12-2005 at 03:09 AM.
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  27. #27
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  28. #28
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    we get fraudulent paypal - and some of it is with fraud credit cards. the problem is even if someone says they dont have credit card on their paypal account you cant know that for sure. they could be lying to you - in fact if they are trying to steal from you they probably would also lie to you about the credit card. fact is that we have had it happen before and guess what paypal did? your right -they took the money from our account and said - sorry we missed this guys fraud credit card on our account - the credit card company took it back from us -so we are taking it back from you. so sorry. nothing you can do about it. well there is - we force a credit card on these orders.

    now we have 0 paypal fraud - if somone refuses to do it - we figure they are probably fraudsters. they think we are unreasonable and we think they are thiefs - so all is good I guess.

    at least our honest customers that go through the checkout process dont have to pay for the scum suckers that steal from others.
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  29. #29
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    Bah, baloney. I would consider this to be a red flag (fraud alert!) against the company requesting the credit card.

    By sending that, now they have in writing what's needed to make fraudulent purchases using my card, pretty much anywhere else. What do they need a credit card for? You're not authorizing them to charge anything to the credit card.

    The only time someone gets to touch or otherwise get any access to my credit card, is if I am authorizing them to charge something to it. Right then and there. Otherwise, any copies of it floating around out there are a fraud risk to the CUSTOMER. All it takes is one dishonest employee. And what guarantee is there that the host or company is honest either? I've seen plenty of companies make unauthorized charges to peoples' cards, and that was out-and-out fraud. Just because it's a company, doesn't make them honest.

    This is no different than if I pay with my Visa card and you ask for the CC# ad CVV of my MasterCard.
    And they have a right to that information because...?

    I think not.

    Take your business elsewhere. Big red flags here ---

    Bailey
    Let's Connect on Twitter! @thatsmsgeek2u || Fighting mediocrity one thread at a time.
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  30. #30
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  31. #31
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    Originally posted by sailor
    we get fraudulent paypal - and some of it is with fraud credit cards. the problem is even if someone says they dont have credit card on their paypal account you cant know that for sure. they could be lying to you - in fact if they are trying to steal from you they probably would also lie to you about the credit card. fact is that we have had it happen before and guess what paypal did? your right -they took the money from our account and said - sorry we missed this guys fraud credit card on our account - the credit card company took it back from us -so we are taking it back from you. so sorry. nothing you can do about it. well there is - we force a credit card on these orders.

    now we have 0 paypal fraud - if somone refuses to do it - we figure they are probably fraudsters. they think we are unreasonable and we think they are thiefs - so all is good I guess.

    at least our honest customers that go through the checkout process dont have to pay for the scum suckers that steal from others.
    If paypal is causing such problems then don't accept paypal. Not accepting paypal and ask for front and back copies of credit card.
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  32. #32
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
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    I could not agree more.

    I have stated this in another thread...you can either do this or I'll happily buy what is left of your assets once you go bankrupt because you have not protected your financial interests against fraud and chargeback's.

    CC Companies and Paypal (owned by a CC Company) could care less if you live or die...you HAVE to accept them and their policies or give up as an online business...Unless forced to with overwhelming proof they will take the customer (who has all sorts of options...like Chase, Citibank, Capital One...Owners of Paypal) side every time...and all it takes is a few whooper chargeback's and you'll be for sale.

    For hosting this is a lesser issue...Reseller and VPS maybe...But Dedicated Servers its a MUST...Or I have cash (protected by a strong paperwork trail) for your hosting companies business.

    And let's not forget...you have already trusted the hosting company with your busines and/or online identity....A far greater risk with far less legal recourse and protection

    You are at far far greater risk at the local restaurant when your server is gone with your CC for 15 minutes in my opinion...Oh and BTW...The restraunt keeps a record for years of your signature on the reciept you just signed.......



    Originally posted by sailor
    we get fraudulent paypal - and some of it is with fraud credit cards. the problem is even if someone says they dont have credit card on their paypal account you cant know that for sure. they could be lying to you - in fact if they are trying to steal from you they probably would also lie to you about the credit card. fact is that we have had it happen before and guess what paypal did? your right -they took the money from our account and said - sorry we missed this guys fraud credit card on our account - the credit card company took it back from us -so we are taking it back from you. so sorry. nothing you can do about it. well there is - we force a credit card on these orders.

    now we have 0 paypal fraud - if somone refuses to do it - we figure they are probably fraudsters. they think we are unreasonable and we think they are thiefs - so all is good I guess.

    at least our honest customers that go through the checkout process dont have to pay for the scum suckers that steal from others.
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  33. #33
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    Originally posted by bithost(NET)

    Take your business elsewhere. Big red flags here ---

    Bailey
    Yes, I am now looking for another remote backup service.
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  34. #34
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    Originally posted by efarmer
    If paypal is causing such problems then don't accept paypal. Not accepting paypal and ask for front and back copies of credit card.
    We get fraud paypal orders too, but in large part paypal is preferred method of payment online, not accepting paypal would be a big dent in many hosts budgets, you just have to be careful and take the good with the bad.
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  35. #35
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    Originally posted by Take-IT-EZZI
    We get fraud paypal orders too, but in large part paypal is preferred method of payment online, not accepting paypal would be a big dent in many hosts budgets, you just have to be careful and take the good with the bad.
    The fun here is some company insisted on photoid + front & back of credit card (which was not used to place the order) for US$15 which was a 3 months' payment for a remote backup service of $5 each month.
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  36. #36
    Actually, for my personal company, we do about 1000 transactions a month. I received my first fraud transaction yesterday. Paypal actually reversed it fairly quickly.

    During a recent review of our system, we determined that you received funds from an account with reports of fraudulent bank account use. In accordance with PayPal's Seller Protection Policy, the following transaction involving unauthorized funds has been reversed:
    On a side note, when I ordered my server at gnax, I paid with paypal, I then had to send in my drivers license and front and back of a credit card to get the server.

    Wasn't really a big issue to me, plus I ended up switching payment to the CC the next month anyway.
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  37. #37
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    Originally posted by sailor
    now we have 0 paypal fraud - if somone refuses to do it - we figure they are probably fraudsters. they think we are unreasonable and we think they are thiefs - so all is good I guess.

    at least our honest customers that go through the checkout process dont have to pay for the scum suckers that steal from others.
    I have no problem of your business practice and your customer willing to do it and happy with it because your service is soooo good. Fine with me. Good business plan.

    But bacause customer refuse to give it, this customer are probabily fraudster? If I was asked that info, I will not give those info and choose other company just because I'm not comfortable to send that info. Now I'm possible fraudster..... COOL....
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  38. #38
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    Originally posted by meknow
    But bacause customer refuse to give it, this customer are probabily fraudster? If I was asked that info, I will not give those info and choose other company just because I'm not comfortable to send that info. Now I'm possible fraudster..... COOL....
    I am a fraudster too, since I refuse to give something I feel unnecessary to give.
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  39. #39
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    Nov 2002
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    For this I Agree...even MC and Visa have far less strigent acceptence policies for purchases under 10 bucks.

    Its is a matter of scale...


    Originally posted by efarmer
    The fun here is some company insisted on photoid + front & back of credit card (which was not used to place the order) for US$15 which was a 3 months' payment for a remote backup service of $5 each month.
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  40. #40
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    Just check out their site... and I have one sugestion..

    If you want to avoid possible fraudster, please add some warning ( even tiny little letter is fine. I will read it) when pep choose paypal before input their personal info stating you will going to ask PHOTO ID, CREDIT CARD FRONT AND BACK. Then customer will not complain about it or less compalin about it.

    For the customer who decide not to give CREDIT CARD FRON AND BACK like efarmer, it was waste of time. will feel bad when they receive message asking CC front and back.

    I do not bring my $100 to my local BB restaurant cause they posted big word on their door that they will not accept over $20 bill..... Be more considerable to your possible customer.
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