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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
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    45

    Level3/Cogent Depeering - What does this mean for long term 'cheap' unmetered prices?

    I am new to unmetered servers and I am wondering what effect this L3/Cogent depeering will have on cheap unmetered bandwidth? It seems from what I have read, even in the best case senario, Cogent will be paying L3 significantly more for the same resources they used to get. How will this trickle down to the customers ordering these unmetered packages? Will there ever again in the immediate future be a Cogent-like cheap unmetered pricing structure? Or are we looking at the current prices for multihomed, 3x-4x Cogent prices, as our lowest price for cheap reliable unmetered setups? How do you guys think this Cogent/L3 issue will resolve and how do you think it will affect cheap unmetered server packages?

  2. #2
    It goes deeper than that. The CEO of cogent has a serious personal issue with the CEO of level3, which is the root cause of all of this. Even before this happened a few months ago cogent was attacking level 3 customers with specials and such. This isn't a corporate squabble this a personal battle between to execs.
    Jay

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    45
    No matter of the reason behind the depeering. Whats the long term cost effect?

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
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    Texas
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    1,556
    It really depends on who gives up first, if Level 3 gives up and repeers Cogent, then the unmetered market may not change much, although I hope the ones that are single homed would charge a bit more and at least have a backup link. If Cogent gives in first, then I would expect the cheap unmetered to totally go away as other major players will try to depeer them in order to get money out of them as well. That's my .02 at least.
    James Lumby

  5. #5
    He.net is just as cheap as cogent. So you switch from cogent to HE
    Jay

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Posts
    468
    HE is not as cheap, or as good as cogent.
    bye

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Atlanta, GA
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    5,627
    Originally posted by amps
    HE is not as cheap, or as good as cogent.
    HE's network is nowhere near as good as cogent's and their pricing isn't anywhere near as competative.

    Unless Jay knows something we dont 0

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    1,380
    Hurricane Electric is a good deal in some aspects, but nowhere as cheap as Cogent.

  9. #9
    cogent is the best

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    Atlanta
    Posts
    4,419
    I dont think it will affect them too much. your larger dc's that provide this service also most likely have other carriers and can simply set it up to leak the routes to get to level3 and any other affected networks to their unmetered segments. This is what we have done - so our cogent only silver network customers had a bout a 12 hour outage to level3 - but now its no big deal - they get routed out our gold network for level 3 and their connected customers.

    If it happens to another net - we will leak those routes too. its no big deal.

    I am sending an email to cogents management asking them not to pay for the peering with these guys since if they do it will be a snowball effect. if anyone else wants to join in - let me know and I will get them to set up a special email so their exec does not get deluged but that they can see the response.
    Dedicated Servers
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  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Tampa FL
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    Originally posted by sailor
    I dont think it will affect them too much. your larger dc's that provide this service also most likely have other carriers and can simply set it up to leak the routes to get to level3 and any other affected networks to their unmetered segments. This is what we have done - so our cogent only silver network customers had a bout a 12 hour outage to level3 - but now its no big deal - they get routed out our gold network for level 3 and their connected customers.

    If it happens to another net - we will leak those routes too. its no big deal.

    I am sending an email to cogents management asking them not to pay for the peering with these guys since if they do it will be a snowball effect. if anyone else wants to join in - let me know and I will get them to set up a special email so their exec does not get deluged but that they can see the response.

    I think we should also drop Level (3) in light of this BS , that way they will know we do not appreciate them doing this to their clients that pay their bills , I dont know about you but our Level (3) bill was $20k last month so hopefully if enough of us do that level (3) will really feel the crunch.
    Ceridius Networks Sales
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  12. #12
    Considering you can get other excellent tier 1 providers for the same or slightly lower cost than level 3 it would make sense that if you could drop them it wouldn't affect your business much if at all. This is especially true if you have some peering of your own going on.
    Matt Kelly
    WCiT.net
    Managed and Unmanaged
    Budget VPS, Cloud and Colocation

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    UK
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    1,034
    The long term implication would be cogent raise their prices if they have to pay for level3 transit.

    I can understand why level3 would depeer cogent if cogent are pushing loads of cheaply sold unmetered traffic down their lines, as I understand it there was a big notice given and many others were depeered as well but we are not seeing news about other providers been cutoff I assume those just did the proper thing and paid for the transit.
    Chris Collins
    Hostingfreak.net
    Directadmin Hosting in europe
    www.hostingfreak.net

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Chicago, IL
    Posts
    6,889
    Originally posted by HiVelocity
    I think we should also drop Level (3) in light of this BS , that way they will know we do not appreciate them doing this to their clients that pay their bills , I dont know about you but our Level (3) bill was $20k last month so hopefully if enough of us do that level (3) will really feel the crunch.
    How about you drop Cogent as well then, as it is because of Cogent that the two networks can't communicate and is thus the cause of the actual problem. Level(3) was completely prepared to take Cogent routes over Verio, but Cogent didn't make that happen.

    I too connect to both Cogent and Level(3), so not like I have an advantage taking one side or the other here.
    Karl Zimmerman - Steadfast: Managed Dedicated Servers and Premium Colocation
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  15. #15
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Montréal
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    953
    As long as Cogent will keep it's low pricing policy it will not affect unmetered offers even if the Level 3 situation should be a permenant one. As sailor said, dc's that provide this service can simply send the traffic through another route and the costs associated with that should be limited.
    :: Martin Leclair
    :: Linkedin Profile

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Waco, TX
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    http://scoreboard.keynote.com/scoreb...assword=public

    They ping, who peered up?!



    1 g0-2.3.core01.ams03.atlas.cogentco.com (130.117.16.125) 4 msec 0 msec 0 msec
    2 p5-0.core01.lon02.atlas.cogentco.com (130.117.1.225) 76 msec 36 msec 128 msec
    3 p1-0.core01.bos01.atlas.cogentco.com (130.117.0.185) 308 msec 140 msec 236 msec
    4 p5-0.core01.jfk02.atlas.cogentco.com (66.28.4.118) 108 msec 100 msec 104 msec
    5 ge-7-12.car1.NewYork1.Level3.net (4.68.111.41) 92 msec 88 msec 92 msec
    6 ae-1-52.bbr2.NewYork1.Level3.net (4.68.97.33) 88 msec 88 msec 88 msec
    7 ae-0-0.bbr1.Denver1.Level3.net (64.159.1.113) 132 msec
    as-0-0.bbr2.Denver1.Level3.net (64.159.4.226) 132 msec
    ae-0-0.bbr1.Denver1.Level3.net (64.159.1.113) 132 msec
    8 so-6-0.hsa1.Denver1.Level3.net (4.68.112.154) 136 msec
    4.68.113.54 136 msec 132 msec
    9 se3-0.public1.Broomfield1.Level3.net (209.245.16.18) 132 msec 132 msec 132 msec


    Looks to be direct now.
    Last edited by (Stephen); 10-07-2005 at 04:49 PM.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Montréal
    Posts
    953
    1 ip-209-172-60-2.reverse.privatedns.com (209.172.60.2) 0.472 ms 0.563 ms 0.320 ms
    2 38.116.204.25 (38.116.204.25) 8.125 ms 8.007 ms 8.073 ms
    3 g11-0-0.core01.yyz02.atlas.cogentco.com (66.250.13.53) 7.884 ms 8.249 ms 7.632 ms
    4 p15-2.core01.yyz01.atlas.cogentco.com (154.54.2.233) 8.343 ms 8.726 ms 8.090 ms
    5 p13-0.core02.ord01.atlas.cogentco.com (66.28.4.213) 22.057 ms 22.334 ms 21.769 ms
    6 p15-0.core01.ord03.atlas.cogentco.com (154.54.2.242) 22.312 ms 23.244 ms 21.931 ms
    7 4.68.127.129 (4.68.127.129) 21.412 ms 21.348 ms 21.348 ms
    8 so-2-1-0.bbr1.Chicago1.Level3.net (209.244.8.9) 23.269 ms 23.106 ms 23.104 ms
    9 ae-0-0.bbr1.Denver1.Level3.net (64.159.1.113) 44.053 ms 43.939 ms as-0-0.bbr2.Denver1.Level3.net (64.159.4.226) 49.307 ms
    10 so-6-0.hsa1.Denver1.Level3.net (4.68.112.154) 45.972 ms 4.68.113.54 (4.68.113.54) 45.861 ms 46.034 ms
    11 se3-0.public1.Broomfield1.Level3.net (209.245.16.18) 45.326 ms 45.705 ms 45.262 ms
    12 se3-0.public1.Broomfield1.Level3.net (209.245.16.18) 47.398 ms !X *

    Yes looks to be direct.
    :: Martin Leclair
    :: Linkedin Profile

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    1,556
    traceroute to level3.com (209.245.19.41), 64 hops max, 40 byte packets
    1 204.11.96.97.cpchosting.net (204.11.96.97) 0.252 ms 0.238 ms 0.428 ms
    2 g0-2.na01.b000326-0.dfw01.atlas.cogentco.com (38.112.28.9) 1.009 ms 0.704 ms 0.576 ms
    3 g10-2.core01.dfw01.atlas.cogentco.com (38.112.39.37) 1.304 ms 1.145 ms 1.160 ms
    4 p1-0.core01.dfw03.atlas.cogentco.com (154.54.2.22) 1.595 ms 1.436 ms 1.746 ms
    5 so-3-2-0.edge2.Dallas1.Level3.net (4.68.127.13) 1.597 ms 1.875 ms 1.453 ms
    6 so-0-0-0.bbr1.Dallas1.Level3.net (4.68.96.117) 2.620 ms 1.585 ms 1.600 ms
    7 ae-0-0.bbr2.Denver1.Level3.net (64.159.1.114) 15.496 ms as-0-0.bbr1.Denver1.Level3.net (209.247.11.21) 15.481 ms ae-0-0.bbr2.Denver1.Level3.net (64.159.1.114) 15.627 ms
    8 so-6-0.hsa1.Denver1.Level3.net (4.68.112.154) 15.769 ms 4.68.113.54 (4.68.113.54) 16.356 ms so-6-0.hsa1.Denver1.Level3.net (4.68.112.154) 15.483 ms
    9 se3-0.public1.Broomfield1.Level3.net (209.245.16.18) 17.087 ms 17.075 ms 16.663 ms
    10 se3-0.public1.Broomfield1.Level3.net (209.245.16.18) 16.954 ms !X * *
    11 se3-0.public1.Broomfield1.Level3.net (209.245.16.18) 17.071 ms !X * 17.021 ms !X
    James Lumby

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Waco, TX
    Posts
    5,292
    status.cogentco.com

    ******************************************************************************
    ** Cogent Network Status Report Last Updated Fri Oct 7 16:22:35 2005 **
    ******************************************************************************
    ******************************************************************************
    Network Status: Normal
    DNS Servers Status: Normal
    Dialup/IPASS Status: Normal
    Mail Servers Status: Normal
    Webservers Status: Normal


    Cogent Network Status/DNS Server Status Description:
    Date: 10/07/2005

    Update (4:20pm edt): Level 3 has restored all peers with Cogent as of 4:00pm edt. We are seeing some latency in traffic across to Level 3 as sessions re-establish, mail servers deliver messages, etc. We hope the above normal traffic volumes will decrease within the next hour.

    Previous Updates: 10/7/05 (3:40pm edt): Level 3 has restored some of their peering sessions with Cogent at this time. We do not know if this is a temporary or a permanent change, and will continue to negotiate with Level 3 to resolve all the issues they have with Cogent.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Posts
    1,044

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    1,034
    This is apperrently only up until the 9th november and if cogent dont pay up will be cutoff again.
    Chris Collins
    Hostingfreak.net
    Directadmin Hosting in europe
    www.hostingfreak.net

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